Zelda needs more of these moments again

Wamb0wneD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,686

The ambient music. The overall atmosphere. There's plenty to critizise BotW for, but what bugs me the most is the lack of any of these tone shifts throughout the game. When the epitome of that sort of stuff is a monster part merchant snapping at you once randomly and a Bloodmoon which appears over and over again, you know you kinda missed out.

Remember the most jolly Zelda under the sun? Yeah...
Warning, complete potato quality.


I hope the tone the BoTW2 teaser sets stays in the game. I hope the fact we explore caves and stuff leads to moments like the above. I hope redeads are coming back.
 
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Finalrush

Member
Dec 7, 2017
486
Just my opinion but I think BOTW had plenty of moments like this and they were more effective since you didn't NEED to find them. Finding the
Horse God
comes to mind.
 
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Wamb0wneD

Wamb0wneD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,686
Just my opinion but I think BOTW had plenty of moments like this and they were more effective since you didn't NEED to find them. Finding the
Horse God
comes to mind.
I loved finding the horse god, but it wasn't creepy or unsettling, or provided a huge tonal shift.
I'm not one of these edgy dudes who needs everything grimdark, I just like the tonal contrast these moments provide. Just watch that first video for a minute from the timestamp on and tell me anything like that is in BotW.
 

Christo750

Member
May 10, 2018
1,816
Judging by your examples, you're talking about undead things in Zelda. And yeah, BOTW2 should have something like that, but I think finding the
corrupted Naydra at Mt. Lanayru
qualifies as something that changes the way you look at the villain and the world itself.
 

Lilo_D

Member
Oct 29, 2017
311
Judging by your examples, you're talking about undead things in Zelda. And yeah, BOTW2 should have something like that, but I think finding the
corrupted Naydra at Mt. Lanayru
qualifies as something that changes the way you look at the villain and the world itself.
Quote this, my favourite gaming moment of this gen
 

Kor of Memory

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,109
The Pitch black forest was a good bit of suspense. Lighting the torches to find the way. Fighting the Hinox in the dark. I remember being on edge the entire time.
 

Finalrush

Member
Dec 7, 2017
486
I loved finding the horse god, but it wasn't creepy or unsettling, or provided a huge tonal shift.
I'm not one of these edgy dudes who needs everything grimdark, I just like the tonal contrast these moments provide. Just watch that first video for a minute from the timestamp on and tell me anything like that is in BotW.
I dunno, shifting from a beautiful sunny field to suddenly finding something like that felt like a big tonal shift to me, and definitely felt creepy. Same for the example above. The moments aren't scripted tonal shifts, but that's kinda why I enjoyed them. I'd even argue first encountering guardians feels like a similar sort of shift. It might even be that there are so many of these stark contrasts that they almost don't register in the same way for you because they're so frequent. The whole game is built around discovering things that shift the mood.
 

KartuneDX

Member
Jan 12, 2018
996
I loved finding the horse god, but it wasn't creepy or unsettling, or provided a huge tonal shift.
I'm not one of these edgy dudes who needs everything grimdark, I just like the tonal contrast these moments provide. Just watch that first video for a minute from the timestamp on and tell me anything like that is in BotW.
This moment was that for me + discovering Naydra.
 
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Wamb0wneD

Wamb0wneD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,686
Judging by your examples, you're talking about undead things in Zelda. And yeah, BOTW2 should have something like that, but I think finding the
corrupted Naydra at Mt. Lanayru
qualifies as something that changes the way you look at the villain and the world itself.
I'm talking about the ambient music playing and complete shift in atmosphere from just a few moments ago before you entered the crypt. Finding and fighting the corrupt dragon was amazing, but it didn't really change the atmopshere all that much.
I need the contrast of the joyus, whimsical, adventerous, to the creepy and unsettling. Especially OoT and Wind waker excel in this. Majora's was just creepy/weird throughout the entire game lol which isn't too bad either.

TP tried but was way too tryhard with these elements, and the lower part of the ancient cistern being the "creepiest" part of SS was a fail, too. (outside the guys in the spirit realm I guess.) When I saw the Bloodmoon animation before launch leaked I was excited, but then it left me disappointed.
 

Lobster Roll

Banned
Sep 24, 2019
1,099
Chicago, IL

The ambient music. The overall athmopshere. There's plenty to critizise BotW for, but what bugs me the most is the lack of any of these tone shifts throughout the game. When the epitome of that sort of stuff is a monster part merchant snapping at you once randomly and a Bloodmoon which appears over and over again, you know you kinda missed out.

Remember the most jolly Zelda under the sun? Yeah...
Warning, complete potato quality.


I hope the tone the BoTW2 teaser sets stays in the game. I hope the fact we explore caves and stuff leads to moments like the above. I hope redeads are coming back.
I agree that redeads and creepier moments in BOTW2 would be great, but disagree about the lack of tonal shifts. The mixture of exploring a post-war world that now belongs to nature has its tone shifted HARD when ancient, mechanical, laser-firing Aztec/Mayan/Alien robots and shrines enter the scene now and again. It’s not the creepy tone that redeads bring, but it’s still a hard tone shift.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
21,087
Imagine if only one of the dungeons in BOTW were a beast. It would have been such an incredible discovery and moment, a stand out in the entire series. But since they were repetitive, they managed to making giant walking dungeons boring somehow.

That's what they need to get away from - open world template design. Worry less about scale and more about unique scenarios with potent mood and atmosphere.
 
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Wamb0wneD

Wamb0wneD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,686
I dunno, shifting from a beautiful sunny field to suddenly finding something like that felt like a big tonal shift to me, and definitely felt creepy. Same for the example above. The moments aren't scripted tonal shifts, but that's kinda why I enjoyed them. I'd even argue first encountering guardians feels like a similar sort of shift. It might even be that there are so many of these stark contrasts that they almost don't register in the same way for you because they're so frequent. The whole game is built around discovering things that shift the mood.
The shift, was there, but I felt more curious what on earth that is than being creeped out or anything. Same with the Lost Woods. Like, it just didn't get there sadly.
This moment was that for me + discovering Naydra.
That's more like it. Too bad the music doesn't really fit, imo.
 
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OP
Wamb0wneD

Wamb0wneD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,686
I agree that redeads and creepier moments in BOTW2 would be great, but disagree about the lack of tonal shifts. The mixture of exploring a post-war world that now belongs to nature has its tone shifted HARD when ancient, mechanical, laser-firing Aztec/Mayan/Alien robots and shrines enter the scene now and again. It’s not the creepy tone that redeads bring, but it’s still a hard tone shift.
It's not even the redeads. The color palette and music play a way larger role. In that video, even before you get into the room with the redeads, shit is creepy as fuck. Just listen to the music.
 

fourfourfun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,404
England
Just my opinion but I think BOTW had plenty of moments like this and they were more effective since you didn't NEED to find them. Finding the
Horse God
comes to mind.
Stumbling on
the corrupted dragon
was pretty awesome. What I really like is that I didn't have to invoke a quest - which there was one - to encounter it.

I rarely got quest pointers from towns and such, so the entire game was one of discovery. Really appreciated that I didn't have to be fed beats for the entire game.
 
Nov 17, 2017
7,970
I loved finding the horse god, but it wasn't creepy or unsettling, or provided a huge tonal shift.
I'm not one of these edgy dudes who needs everything grimdark, I just like the tonal contrast these moments provide. Just watch that first video for a minute from the timestamp on and tell me anything like that is in BotW.
I don't know, I found it to be pretty creepy and a tonal shift. It was surreal in a way and felt really organic. It especially was built up well in the sense that I kept seeing the glow from far away and wondering what it was until I finally managed to be nearby when it happened.

I'm talking about the ambient music playing and complete shift in atmosphere from just a few moments ago before you entered the crypt. Finding and fighting the corrupt dragon was amazing, but it didn't really change the atmopshere all that much.
Yeah, I don't know what you're talking about here either. Naydra was definitely a change in atmosphere. I remember feeling unnerved by the ominous feeling climbing the mountain. It changes gradually from a quiet snowy mountain to a dark, creepy vibe as you hear the dragon's breathing and it's music slowly fade in as you get closer.
 

logash

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,881
This moment was that for me + discovering Naydra.
Hands down my favorite boss in the entire game. It felt like a classic Zelda boss. I love Breath of the Wild for breathing new life into the series but now that they added all the new stuff, I hope they look at the old stuff and see what could be implemented into this new system. Bigger bolder dungeons with unique boss fights for one thing.
 

Xlad

Member
Oct 19, 2018
549
talk about tone shifts in Botw
I also think of glowing light at
Satori mountain
very enchanting moment that special for the place.
 

Asbsand

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,131
Denmark
I completely agree OP. Not much else to say really. I would even like it in an open air game, but what we need is the feeling of descending into an area that was not supposed to be trodden and discover its horrors. A few areas had suggestions of an unease and eerie tone in BotW but genuine "re-dead" moments have been absent since Skyward Sword and even Twilight Princess.

BoTW was tonally stagnant for sure. It was too serene in a weird way like "oooh everything is so magical and natural"
 

Biske

Member
Nov 11, 2017
3,027
Yeah Ocarina of Time did have some really stellar moments where the world was so bleak and dark, not always in a horrifying way, but in a sad shitty way. The time skip was pretty awesome for that, like "hey remember that farm you loved....eeeeh?"
 

Karateka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,070
It's better because the moments are actually surprising and special knowing that not everyone will see that same moment, at least to me personally.
this kind of attempt at making moments seem original fails on me. It seems to me the only reason youd cut something down to a sidequest is because it isn't good enough to be part of the main quest, or because you don't really think it is that thematically important to the work.
 

carlosrox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,991
Vancouver BC
I love BOTW to death and think it's an easy GOAT contender but I very much agree with this.

Definitely needs more persistent music and a better mix of atmospheric and melodic music.
 

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,310
Judging by your examples, you're talking about undead things in Zelda. And yeah, BOTW2 should have something like that, but I think finding the
corrupted Naydra at Mt. Lanayru
qualifies as something that changes the way you look at the villain and the world itself.
This
Quote this, my favourite gaming moment of this gen
and this
I don't know, I found it to be pretty creepy and a tonal shift. It was surreal in a way and felt really organic. It especially was built up well in the sense that I kept seeing the glow from far away and wondering what it was until I finally managed to be nearby when it happened.
and this too
 

base_two

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,300
Imagine if only one of the dungeons in BOTW were a beast. It would have been such an incredible discovery and moment, a stand out in the entire series. But since they were repetitive, they managed to making giant walking dungeons boring somehow.

That's what they need to get away from - open world template design. Worry less about scale and more about unique scenarios with potent mood and atmosphere.
I love Breath of the Wild, but no lies detected.
 

Finalrush

Member
Dec 7, 2017
486
this kind of attempt at making moments seem original fails on me. It seems to me the only reason youd cut something down to a sidequest is because it isn't good enough to be part of the main quest, or because you don't really think it is that thematically important to the work.
Different strokes. The only "main quest" in botw is going directly to the castle, so by this logic the entire game could have been cut.
 

Asbsand

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,131
Denmark
Imagine if only one of the dungeons in BOTW were a beast.
I could even see it working rather well. You go to a big lake, soaring over it with the glider, after placing the last of 3 mysterious thingies in pedestals or something, and a big whale appears, and you drop into its open mouth or it sucks you in.

It fades to black to hide the load screen for a few seconds and you're inside the belly of the whale.

I just think Nintendo cut their budget thin with the ambitions for BoTW and so they needed a unified visual aesthetic and array of enemies for all their dungeons, because otherwise they couldn't create both a giant open world and the richly detail Zelda experience inside it otherwise.
 

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,032
In terms of atmosphere, I'm not sure I can see Nintendo ever making games like OoT and MM again. They are filled with weird, strange, and creepy elements throughout.
 
Jun 24, 2019
204
I love botw's light hearted tone, but I do miss some creepy dark moments that old Zelda games had.

Not saying botw should take these elements, I am perfectly fine with how it is. I hope to see some future Zelda games to return to dark themes and have creepy enemies.
 

karmitt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,841
.
I love botw's light hearted tone, but I do miss some creepy dark moments that old Zelda games had.

Not saying botw should take these elements, I am perfectly fine with how it is. I hope to see some future Zelda games to return to dark themes and have creepy enemies.
The little we've seen of BotW2 trumps anything in BotW handily. If that's the mood they want to portray a lot more of in this new world we're in for a treat.
 

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
4,931
Finding the giant frozen sky fish skeleton in that one icy cave was pretty creepy, but yeah. Most of BotW's horror/creepiness comes from implication.

I think if BotW 2 has more natural dungeons, and not super out-of-place sci fi instances, it'll have the capacity for some really creepy moments.
 

Phantom

Writer at Jeux.ca
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
898
Canada
I remember at some point docking points in game reviews for being too linear. Now I wish some games do away with open world themes, I'm pretty sick of them, BOTW included. For the most part, they're empty zones devoid of interest to me, unless you're a game like Shadow of the Colossus. I'd take another OOT with a better overworld any time over what we got.
 

Serif

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,513
The Malice-infested Hyrule Castle and Akkala Citadel would have been great areas for this kind of atmosphere, unfortunately the game's enemy variety is poor and we instead have the same Boko/Moblins and LIzalfos roaming these areas. Fighting resurrected / redead Hylian soldiers or guards that are as tough as Lynels would've been awesome.
 

MoogleWizard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,210
Ocarina and Majora's Mask do have a peculiar and melancholic atmosphere that is very appealing to me. I think Ocarina even more so because it feels like a much longer, more lonely journey. It has some really great settings like the spirit temple and the forest temple, which feel like ancient, haunted places that no one has been to in a very long time. Twilight Princess tried to recapture this atmosphere but failed completely, it was just dull. The genius of OOT and MM is that the games didn't look strange, sad or creepy, MM is a very colorful and "cute" game even, but they still managed to create those feelings. I don't see modern Nintendo make a Zelda with that feel again. I do love the more light-hearted Zelda games but I also miss the weirdness the older games had.
 

Technika

Member
Aug 23, 2018
255

The ambient music. The overall athmopshere. There's plenty to critizise BotW for, but what bugs me the most is the lack of any of these tone shifts throughout the game. When the epitome of that sort of stuff is a monster part merchant snapping at you once randomly and a Bloodmoon which appears over and over again, you know you kinda missed out.

Remember the most jolly Zelda under the sun? Yeah...
Warning, complete potato quality.


I hope the tone the BoTW2 teaser sets stays in the game. I hope the fact we explore caves and stuff leads to moments like the above. I hope redeads are coming back.
I love the example from Zelda OoT as well!

I remember one of the reasons Nintendo justified staying with Carts and using MIDI files allowed for games to have such dynamic music. It was difficult (or not possible on hardware that generation) to create such changeable music.
 
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Wamb0wneD

Wamb0wneD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,686
The series needs more TLoZ and AoL moments, not more N64 jank.
What on earth is "janky" about the atmopshere of that crypt?
Ocarina and Majora's Mask do have a peculiar and melancholic atmosphere that is very appealing to me. I think Ocarina even more so because it feels like a much longer, more lonely journey. It has some really great settings like the spirit temple and the forest temple, which feel like ancient, haunted places that no one has been to in a very long time. Twilight Princess tried to recapture this atmosphere but failed completely, it was just dull. The genius of OOT and MM is that the games didn't look strange, sad or creepy, MM is a very colorful and "cute" game even, but they still managed to create those feelings. I don't see modern Nintendo make a Zelda with that feel again. I do love the more light-hearted Zelda games but I also miss the weirdness the older games had.
Don't make me sad like that lol. You're spot on with everything though. Even Wind Waker tried to have it's dark corners, even if some of those corners were obviously cut.
Like, it's not edginess I'm looking for, but the creepiness of OoT's crypts and caves, or MM's overall unique weirdness.
This is why that BoTW2 teaser was promising though. The backwards palyed music alone was already weirder than anythign in BotW.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,634
Not True, BOTW had huge tone shifts. It went from "these systems are neat" intrigue to "oh that's the entire game" melancholy.
 

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,660
The dark forest and pretty much all of the Gerudo desert/highlands were my peak moments for the game.

The old ruin pass through the mountains to the snowy peak had a lot of potential but it was just there for show. I was hoping to find a hidden moment in that area but nothing.

There were a lot of little pockets here and there that kind of just served as a simple visual thing which felt like wasted potential which I hope the sequel addresses.

I guess OP means more horror elements though which yeah was kinda missing from the game until you reach the castle.
 

Calamari41

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,133
The Pitch black forest was a good bit of suspense. Lighting the torches to find the way. Fighting the Hinox in the dark. I remember being on edge the entire time.
This was spot on for me, especially since I hadn't actually encountered a Hinox yet in my playthrough, so I had no clue what the creature with the giant eye and massive attack was that I was fighting.

It was pretty distressing and scary.
 
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OP
Wamb0wneD

Wamb0wneD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,686
Not True, BOTW had huge tone shifts. It went from "these systems are neat" intrigue to "oh that's the entire game" melancholy.
Lol, not bad.
The dark forest and pretty much all of the Gerudo desert/highlands were my peak moments for the game.

The old ruin pass through the mountains to the snowy peak had a lot of potential but it was just there for show. I was hoping to find a hidden moment in that area but nothing.

There were a lot of little pockets here and there that kind of just served as a simple visual thing which felt like wasted potential which I hope the sequel addresses.

I guess OP means more horror elements though which yeah was kinda missing from the game until you reach the castle.
Even the castle wasn't imo. It had the same visual vibe as the colosseum I found right after leaving the plateau for the first time, with the same enemies in it even. It still had this adventurous and epic feel, especially with the great music. No creepiness though, no dread, nothing of that sort.