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Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)

Weltall Zero

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,289
Madrid
Leon is the least generic looking RE character imo since they are consistent with the pretty boy haircut. That as well as being generally speaking, slender looking makes him stand out from most every other hypermasculine, muscular male shooter protag in the industry.

That said, Jill's RE1 design is probably the most iconic look any character has had in the series, especially since she's the most popular character to use in crossovers. Those shoulder pads and beret are unmistakable.
I fully agree that Leon's haircut and Jill's shoulder pads and beret are the most visually distinctive features (arguably, Billy's tattoos too, but he's a one-off). But that's kind of my point, they're defined by hair and clothes, not facial features. I guess that at least makes it easy to cosplay as them? :D
 

rochellepaws

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,132
Ireland
I am perfectly fine with discussions about changes to character designs but they seem to happen far more often for female characters than male characters. I wonder why. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.........
I think they both look great but it's definitely something to compare the Jill with the Carlos thread. Oddly there's no labeling his previous clothing or features as "iconic" or concern for his design change making him look more like an actual person dressed for the environment.
 

Hakunon

Member
Oct 11, 2018
125
I know no one expects anything (good) from Epic7 but the new designs/skins for the existing characters they dropped today are just... ugh. Cecilia's original design did suffer from a boob armor but I guess some weren't satisfied with how clad overall she was.


 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,242
Kind of getting sick of the "generic" comment that seems to pop up anytime a female character is redesigned to wear an actual reasonable outfit. It's not that you can't have a unique but reasonable outfit BUT I'll take a reasonable outfit over a weirdly sexual "iconic" outfit.
 

Shining Star

Banned
May 14, 2019
1,067
Kind of getting sick of the "generic" comment that seems to pop up anytime a female character is redesigned to wear an actual reasonable outfit. It's not that you can't have a unique but reasonable outfit BUT I'll take a reasonable outfit over a weirdly sexual "iconic" outfit.
That is a weird one, I'm guessing this involves some recent changes like Jill and Tifa both of whom I think look cooler now than they did before. The old designs are the ones that I would call plain and boring.
 
Oct 31, 2017
707
I cannot stand the Jill thread anymore. It's got to be a joke or a brigade at this point. Three posts in a row telling me tube tops are like fucking common everyday wear in late september.... what the fuck ever.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,183
I cannot stand the Jill thread anymore. It's got to be a joke or a brigade at this point. Three posts in a row telling me tube tops are like fucking common everyday wear in late september.... what the fuck ever.
Pfft tube tops are not fashionable, who are these girls that are wearing them??? Someone send the fashion police pronto, I was happy when we moved away from them, may the trend stay dead and buried.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,665
Kind of getting sick of the "generic" comment that seems to pop up anytime a female character is redesigned to wear an actual reasonable outfit. It's not that you can't have a unique but reasonable outfit BUT I'll take a reasonable outfit over a weirdly sexual "iconic" outfit.
I get you but in this instance it doesn't help she basically wearing the exact same thing claire was wearing last game. I agree I prefer reasonable clothing. But they could put a. Bit more style on it?

Like if she had that exact same outfit she has in remake but she wore a bigger open button up shirt with like the sleeves rolle rolled up or a jacked tied around her waist. It varies it up more
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,665
I think they both look great but it's definitely something to compare the Jill with the Carlos thread. Oddly there's no labeling his previous clothing or features as "iconic" or concern for his design change making him look more like an actual person dressed for the environment.
To be fair, it's because no one gave a shit about carlos

But people were upset about new chris because....god new chris is trash. Carlos is an improvement on all levels so...not much to say.

That said the suggest that the re3 outfit is "iconic" is weird to me. No, he stars outfit and her re5 outfit with the hat outfit. Her re3 outfit is just kinda there. And as demonstrated today, easily replaced
 

Static_Void

Member
Oct 30, 2018
3,838
north of the Dreamlands
I cannot stand the Jill thread anymore. It's got to be a joke or a brigade at this point. Three posts in a row telling me tube tops are like fucking common everyday wear in late september.... what the fuck ever.
These threads always make the worst come out of insecure people, especially of some guys. They'll say anything to justify their own little distorted emotions towards the brand being discussed. Some of the comments in the Jill thread are... wild. Better to just observe these discussions from afar, if at all.
 
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Mars People

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,678
I actually kinda prefer the original Jill design.
Is it practical for surviving a zombie apocalypse?
No, not really, but then RE is such cheesy bullshit I never really thought about it.

That said, I really like the new design as well and will most definetly use it first time though.

The only Jill design I really hated is the stupid catsuit from RE5.
 

Aranjah

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,290
I think they both look great but it's definitely something to compare the Jill with the Carlos thread. Oddly there's no labeling his previous clothing or features as "iconic" or concern for his design change making him look more like an actual person dressed for the environment.
Several times there have been threads about male character design where these kinds of comments have been "conspicuously" absent, and I have been tempted to go into them and say something like that (bonus if I could find a random real post that someone actually said, with no problems, about a female character in some other thread and copy it and change character names and pronouns and nothing else), just to make a point, kinda like the point Hawkeye Initiative makes, but somehow I feel like my point would go over too many people's heads and I'd get a warning for trolling or something, so I never do it.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,139
Boy am I glad I haven't step foot in that thread. I think JIll looks neat. I never really played the Resident Evil games though so.
 

SchrodingerC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,355
The thing about Jill’s outfit is how it makes no sense given the situation she’s in. The game starts with Raccoon city already gone to hell, like full on destabilization of every type of institution, the undead swarming the city, but yet Jill still had time to put on her clubbing outfit. 🤔
Jill’s new outfit looks like a casual form of her STARS uniform tbh; a more reasonable design evolution given the situation.
 
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Aug 26, 2018
410
I think the best way to put it is that OG RE3 Jill's outfit is...goofy for the circumstances. But, on the other hand, the Remake version is a tad bland. It "fits" more, but it makes the design stand out less overall.

In the same way that grizzled, white, military dudes kind of all blend together, the new design isn't super distinguishable from other "action movie heroine" types.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,136
The thing about Jill’s outfit is how it makes no sense given the situation she’s in. The game starts with Raccoon city already gone to hell, like full on destabilization of every type of institution, the undead swarming the city, but yet Jill still had time to put on her clubbing outfit. 🤔
Jill’s new outfit looks like a casual form of her STARS uniform tbh; a more reasonable design evolution given the situation.
These games have always been murky in regards to how quickly the city fell apart. I'd always assumed shit had really hit the fan on that very day, and Jill simply hadn't had time to change into anything else.
 

kyorii

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,228
Remnant
These games have always been murky in regards to how quickly the city fell apart. I'd always assumed shit had really hit the fan on that very day, and Jill simply hadn't had time to change into anything else.
That's always been my impression too, otherwise in other entries she's always been dressed pretty appropriately.
 

AAK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,975
I think the best way to put it is that OG RE3 Jill's outfit is...goofy for the circumstances. But, on the other hand, the Remake version is a tad bland. It "fits" more, but it makes the design stand out less overall.

In the same way that grizzled, white, military dudes kind of all blend together, the new design isn't super distinguishable from other "action movie heroine" types.
She goes from a generic clubbing extra in a movie set to a generic action movie star.

One is far more appropriate and less objectifying than the other.
 

Shining Star

Banned
May 14, 2019
1,067
Kind of getting sick of the "generic" comment that seems to pop up anytime a female character is redesigned to wear an actual reasonable outfit. It's not that you can't have a unique but reasonable outfit BUT I'll take a reasonable outfit over a weirdly sexual "iconic" outfit.
I think we all know what they really mean when they say "generic."
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
9,748
At the end if Jill had time or not to dress is irrelevant because the writers just can do whatever they please with that. They could always add time, or just make her stop at the first abandoned shop she sees to grab clothes more comfortable for fighting zombies, for example.
 

Primethius

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,461
At the end if Jill had time or not to dress is irrelevant because the writers just can do whatever they please with that. They could always add time, or just make her stop at the first abandoned shop she sees to grab clothes more comfortable for fighting zombies, for example.
Also, Resident Evil 3 is not a time pressed game for the most part. Jill is not being ushered from one location to another with great urgency and there are plenty of moments where she gets time to relax and scavenge.

Even constraining it specifically to an in universe time perspective, that reasoning just doesn't make sense.
 

Mendinso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,809
So I recently got to the scene in Tales of Zestiria during the Earth Trial, and I did kinda groan about the "Dirty Old Man" trope, but then I got to the part with Edna and...

Absolutely NOT. Holy crap. Not only did Edna act like a little girl to try and seduce the guy for information, he started to fall for it. Given the target demographic for the series especially (not that it would make this joke any more acceptable, because it doesn't), why is this even considered okay!?
 

residentgrigo

Banned
Oct 30, 2019
1,333
Germany
There has never been a conclusive agreement in canon on how the females of the Yautja race are supposed to look but it would be weird if they didn´t have humanoid bodies and breasts. The one on page 311 looks fine to me as it´s in line with the standardized male warrior design and the main AvP comic canon has a female lead with Machiko who end up joining them for a few years: https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Machiko_Noguchi
The comic with her in them by Randy Stradley are all good. A shame about the movie(s). Get Aliens vs. Predator Omnibus: Volume 1 and the conclusion Aliens vs. Predator: Three World War TPB. We had females Predators that are actual Yautja since the 90s btw but barely:
https://www.avpcentral.com/female-yautja

It wrecks my brain that we now live in a world where actual models are scanned for games yet you always get a VERY vocal subset of gamers, even/especially here, who call them ugly, unfeminine, etc. Fucking models aren´t enough and inferior for 2-decade old anime-style CG renders. The RE reddit was more graceful in its reception of Jill´s new design (10/10) and that´s saying something...
 
Jan 16, 2018
140
Hope's Peak Academy
I know no one expects anything (good) from Epic7 but the new designs/skins for the existing characters they dropped today are just... ugh. Cecilia's original design did suffer from a boob armor but I guess some weren't satisfied with how clad overall she was.


I'm surprised you you are surprised that an anime girl collecting game to not have skimpy outfits for the anime girls.
 

NovumVeritas

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,231
Berlin
I might be super late to the party, but I'm not into FF7, so I didn't really pay that much attention and just found out, that there is a prime example of boob armor going on.


Regarding the boob armor.



She had something similar in the PS1 original.
Because of her less polygon count, it looks not that weird though or well uncomfortable.
 

grandjedi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,517
I might be super late to the party, but I'm not into FF7, so I didn't really pay that much attention and just found out, that there is a prime example of boob armor going on.


I'm half impressed they modeled that extra plate on the cleavage as if to try and cover for the glaring weaknesses of armor that accentuates the breasts.

When they could've just, you know, not made boob armor.
 

Tommcatt

Member
Apr 26, 2019
633
I'm half impressed they modeled that extra plate on the cleavage as if to try and cover for the glaring weaknesses of armor that accentuates the breasts.

When they could've just, you know, not made boob armor.
That's a very generous idea, but I somehow doubt they were thinking that hard about this. I feel like they just wanted more detail.
 
Jan 11, 2018
5,093
It does look stupid, but I don't think she's wearing it for practical reasons. Same goes for the random armour pieces on Wedge's shoulders.

Here's the original artwork:

 
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Rae

Member
Mar 7, 2019
164
So I recently got to the scene in Tales of Zestiria during the Earth Trial, and I did kinda groan about the "Dirty Old Man" trope, but then I got to the part with Edna and...

Absolutely NOT. Holy crap. Not only did Edna act like a little girl to try and seduce the guy for information, he started to fall for it. Given the target demographic for the series especially (not that it would make this joke any more acceptable, because it doesn't), why is this even considered okay!?
Granted I only played ToB but the Seraphs don't have ages but there's so much dodgy stuff in JRPGs it's like one more raindrop in the bucket. The worst example would be in Bravely Default where the old sage creeps on every female character in the game and of the devs thought it was inappropriate even if everyone is older in the western game. Basically I feel like I can't recc'd JRPGs w/o a huge disclaimer how creepy some of the side characters are to the MC and their friends.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,665
Kind of getting sick of the "generic" comment that seems to pop up anytime a female character is redesigned to wear an actual reasonable outfit. It's not that you can't have a unique but reasonable outfit BUT I'll take a reasonable outfit over a weirdly sexual "iconic" outfit.
To be fair, jill has a better reasonable outfit in re5 with the hat. I do personally think her outfit in re3 is actually a bit generic and could do with some like jacket on, or around her waist or with a red flannel on because 90's
 

Foot

Member
Mar 10, 2019
2,253
I wonder if it was necessary to animate Tifa’s breasts squishing together when she stretches. I wonder if it was necessary to animate her stretching in a way that squishes her breasts together.

 

grandjedi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,517
That's a very generous idea, but I somehow doubt they were thinking that hard about this. I feel like they just wanted more detail.
Oh I'm sure the real idea was just to emphasize the cleavage area more. But might as well preempt the inevitable argument that boob armor is somehow not a giant liability in battle.
I wonder if it was necessary to animate Tifa’s breasts squishing together when she stretches. I wonder if it was necessary to animate her stretching in a way that squishes her breasts together.

Are they though? It looks more like a trick of the eye to me. Tifa's suspenders already serve to outline the outside of her breasts and her armbands are the same color. So when she stretches, her armbands make it look like her breasts are squished together as the black outline has shifted. But I think it's just an optical illusion caused by the armbands moving in the foreground.

Of course we can then move the conversation to why Tifa's suspenders are used like that... But we all know the reason.
 

Tommcatt

Member
Apr 26, 2019
633
I’ve never played FF7 but is there a reason Tifa got a thread about being thirsty for cloud? It just seemed like a normal level of friendship...
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
9,748
I’ve never played FF7 but is there a reason Tifa got a thread about being thirsty for cloud? It just seemed like a normal level of friendship...
I dunno. She has feelings for Cloud but she's not thirsty. Especially considering Cloud does also has feelings for her.

Are they though? It looks more like a trick of the eye to me. Tifa's suspenders already serve to outline the outside of her breasts and her armbands are the same color. So when she stretches, her armbands make it look like her breasts are squished together as the black outline has shifted. But I think it's just an optical illusion caused by the armbands moving in the foreground.

Of course we can then move the conversation to why Tifa's suspenders are used like that... But we all know the reason.
It's just clipping. Her arm clip literally everywhere in that gif.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,217
Las Vegas
So here's something interesting that I just randomly came across all these months later.

Here is an interview with Casey and Ali Edwards (composers to several tracks from Devil May Cry 5 (devil trigger, legacy, silver bullet etc).

According to them, while they were working with Mick Gordan on Killer Instinct. Mick really pushed (or at least expressed his opinion) to tone down the sexuality of B.Orchid (Killer Instinct) from the arcade games. Really interesting that a composer can have that kind of influence even over the art team.

 
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Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,139
Apparently I'm seen as fake and people "see me" as just a racist and sexist pretending to care about issues for my own gain. I didn't realize I gave off that image. I'm sorry for shitting up this thread. I thought I was helping, it looks like I was just making everything worse.
 

Foot

Member
Mar 10, 2019
2,253
Apparently I'm seen as fake and people "see me" as just a racist and sexist pretending to care about issues for my own gain. I didn't realize I gave off that image. I'm sorry for shitting up this thread. I thought I was helping, it looks like I was just making everything worse.
Mate, who is telling you this? I see you as a genuine person. Do not let them get you down.
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,125
Apparently I'm seen as fake and people "see me" as just a racist and sexist pretending to care about issues for my own gain. I didn't realize I gave off that image. I'm sorry for shitting up this thread. I thought I was helping, it looks like I was just making everything worse.
Dude you played a significant role in making this forum better by making that trans issues thread.
 

Choppasmith

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,816
Beaumont, CA
Apparently I'm seen as fake and people "see me" as just a racist and sexist pretending to care about issues for my own gain. I didn't realize I gave off that image. I'm sorry for shitting up this thread. I thought I was helping, it looks like I was just making everything worse.
If anything, I feel fake compared to all the good you do here. Don’t let any of that junk weigh you down.
 

Tizoc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,882
Oman
There has never been a conclusive agreement in canon on how the females of the Yautja race are supposed to look but it would be weird if they didn´t have humanoid bodies and breasts. The one on page 311 looks fine to me as it´s in line with the standardized male warrior design and the main AvP comic canon has a female lead with Machiko who end up joining them for a few years: https://avp.fandom.com/wiki/Machiko_Noguchi
The comic with her in them by Randy Stradley are all good. A shame about the movie(s). Get Aliens vs. Predator Omnibus: Volume 1 and the conclusion Aliens vs. Predator: Three World War TPB. We had females Predators that are actual Yautja since the 90s btw but barely:
https://www.avpcentral.com/female-yautja

It wrecks my brain that we now live in a world where actual models are scanned for games yet you always get a VERY vocal subset of gamers, even/especially here, who call them ugly, unfeminine, etc. Fucking models aren´t enough and inferior for 2-decade old anime-style CG renders. The RE reddit was more graceful in its reception of Jill´s new design (10/10) and that´s saying something...
Ths ks for your input
I will aim to read some of these predator books.