Why women criticise sexualised character designs |OT2| I have no pants and I must scream (READ OP)

CaptainKashup

Member
May 10, 2018
1,570
We never see her mother, but her father is black.
I know that, but since she looks absolutely nothing like him, I always thought she was adopted or something.
And her design in HL: Alyx makes her look even more caucasian.



For all its sexist flaws, I would actually say that some of the design from CinematicMod makes her look more in-line with her supposedly afro-american heritage. But don't worry, I'm not defending that piece of garbage.

We need more black female protagonist in gaming.
 

CaptainKashup

Member
May 10, 2018
1,570
Me: cinematic mod? WTF does that mea-

Fuck everything.
That's not even the version they're talking about.



Actually, I'm not sure if this is, either, but the problem is clear and consistent in the various screenshots I'm finding.

Yeah, Cinematic Mod is really bad. It has like 80 terrible and sexists designs. It's just that some of them make her look more related to Eli despite the horrible clothings.
 

residentgrigo

Member
Oct 30, 2019
575
Germany
I laughed out loud when I saw the HL2 Cinematic Mod(s) again. It reminds me of a famous System Shock 2 mod. The game looks better overall but the Cyborg Midwifes... well:

The modders went from They Live in scary to Duke Nukem Forever. Modding is a 2 edged sword. Cough REmake 2, cough.

PS: Alyx was played by the Afro American + Korean Merle Dandridge in the HL2 "trilogy" and was recast for the VR game. Hm. Dandridge´s racial combination is nearly as rare as mine. The new take on her looks fine. I barely noticed the revamp.
 

HK-47

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,560
Why are we arguing over this? She is clearly black and asian

the only thing the mods are more in line with are being sexist trash and I don’t even like Alyx
 

NeoChaos

Member
Oct 28, 2017
831
NorCal
What the fuck are these mods....

The fuck makes them "cinematic"?

"Imagine, a Hollywood producer got his hands on the game. The result would be similar to what the Cinematic Mod is: a graphics blockbuster, redesigned to the typical game to movie adaption with an orchestral soundtrack and beautiful people everywhere."
 
I laughed out loud when I saw the HL2 Cinematic Mod(s) again. It reminds me of a famous System Shock 2 mod. The game looks better overall but the Cyborg Midwifes... well:

The modders went from They Live in scary to Duke Nukem Forever. Modding is a 2 edged sword. Cough REmake 2, cough.

PS: Alyx was played by the Afro American + Korean Merle Dandridge in the HL2 "trilogy" and was recast for the VR game. Hm. Dandridge´s racial combination is nearly as rare as mine. The new take on her looks fine. I barely noticed the revamp.
Yeah, I'm like disgusted by it but for the wrong reasons and probably not what the modder intended. If they did intended to be sexy gore than we got some serious issues here.
 

caff!!!

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,620
I laughed out loud when I saw the HL2 Cinematic Mod(s) again. It reminds me of a famous System Shock 2 mod. The game looks better overall but the Cyborg Midwifes... well:

The modders went from They Live in scary to Duke Nukem Forever. Modding is a 2 edged sword. Cough REmake 2, cough.

PS: Alyx was played by the Afro American + Korean Merle Dandridge in the HL2 "trilogy" and was recast for the VR game. Hm. Dandridge´s racial combination is nearly as rare as mine. The new take on her looks fine. I barely noticed the revamp.
I remember one of the SS2 mod packs having an option to not replace this model for this exact reason, or to one that isn't "look, titties"
 

Choppasmith

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,717
Beaumont, CA

"Imagine, a Hollywood producer got his hands on the game. The result would be similar to what the Cinematic Mod is: a graphics blockbuster, redesigned to the typical game to movie adaption with an orchestral soundtrack and beautiful people everywhere."
"Beautiful" people... Uh huh. I mean, in fairness, I could understand if they said "Imagine a Half Life movie directed by Michael Bay and Alyx was cast with sex appeal in mind..." That would be all too realistic in your typical Hollywood adaptation. Though some of those variations are way too far gone even for that.
 

SchrodingerC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,173
I’d like to remind everyone that the cinematic mod(or maybe a similar mod) gave Alyx a fully modeled vagina because...
fuck all reasons.
 

Tommcatt

Member
Apr 26, 2019
483


For all its sexist flaws, I would actually say that some of the design from CinematicMod makes her look more in-line with her supposedly afro-american heritage. But don't worry, I'm not defending that piece of garbage.

We need more black female protagonist in gaming.
I actually hated the majority of the cinematic mods because they made her appear more or less white.
 

residentgrigo

Member
Oct 30, 2019
575
Germany
Now that we took a detour to modding. Hot of the presses of GamingCirclejerk (the one good Reddit). One of the top topics of the week. The Duality of Man:

They "fixed" her faster than getting the Let´s Go Pokemon to work properly and the GG crowd goes wild. Gamer, just gamers.
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,574
Canada
Now that we took a detour to modding. Hot of the presses of GamingCirclejerk (the one good Reddit). One of the top topics of the week. The Duality of Man:

They "fixed" her faster than getting the Let´s Go Pokemon to work properly and the GG crowd goes wild. Gamer, just gamers.
Man, wouldn't even bother with paying much attention to it. I have little doubt that mod was created to for clicks (feeding a "controversial subject") and little else. It's just continued stupidity made by a bottom-feeder.

Nessa is beautifully designed as-is and everyone knows it. ♫
 
Now that we took a detour to modding. Hot of the presses of GamingCirclejerk (the one good Reddit). One of the top topics of the week. The Duality of Man:

They "fixed" her faster than getting the Let´s Go Pokemon to work properly and the GG crowd goes wild. Gamer, just gamers.
And as always the people who defend it are very ignorant of the problem or are so much up the racist ass.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,976

"Imagine, a Hollywood producer got his hands on the game. The result would be similar to what the Cinematic Mod is: a graphics blockbuster, redesigned to the typical game to movie adaption with an orchestral soundtrack and beautiful people everywhere."
It's an overhaul of the entire HL2 trilogy with some genuinely good graphical upgrade but terrible design choice made by a creepy old dude.
To be fair, at least the mod is somewhat honest in its stated purpose, and gives players lots of options to use or not use its various components. And I heard a story the original modder never intended to release it publicly -- it was just gonna be his own private thing but I guess when he posted about it somewhere enough people demanded it.

But... yeah.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
14,126
Now that we took a detour to modding. Hot of the presses of GamingCirclejerk (the one good Reddit). One of the top topics of the week. The Duality of Man:

They "fixed" her faster than getting the Let´s Go Pokemon to work properly and the GG crowd goes wild. Gamer, just gamers.
I understand it's tangentially related to the topic at hand but do we really need to give this racist garbage a platform? It's not an official release or anything, just some chuds doing chud things.
 

Foot

Member
Mar 10, 2019
2,037
I was at the library and saw they had Yu-No: A Girl Who Chants Love at the Bound of this World for the PS4. I’d heard it was considered a “classic” among visual novels, and while every other Japanese classic visual novel I’ve tried has been sexist bullshit I decided to give it a try anyway! I mean, the main character is a girl! A girl who chants love!

It opens with what turns out to be the male main character as a child, hugging his busty and entirely nude mother whose breasts are perfectly framed for the camera to leer at. His father is angry, not just because his child is a momma’s boy, but also because “Those breasts are only for me.” I already wanted to shut it off, but I had to give it a chance! The next scene was the now teenaged main character doing the classic highschool anime thing of avoiding responsibility on the school roof by laying down and staring at the sky. The school’s nurse, a beautiful woman in a bustier and mini-skirt, arrives and stands over top of him. There is then an extended conversation between this authority figure and the student about the woman’s panties being in his face, and how he’d like to sniff them. This panties conversation was interminable and unbearable, so I forced it to stop by deleting the game and removing the disc.
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,875
I was at the library and saw they had Yu-No: A Girl Who Chants Love at the Bound of this World for the PS4. I’d heard it was considered a “classic” among visual novels, and while every other Japanese classic visual novel I’ve tried has been sexist bullshit I decided to give it a try anyway! I mean, the main character is a girl! A girl who chants love!

It opens with what turns out to be the male main character as a child, hugging his busty and entirely nude mother whose breasts are perfectly framed for the camera to leer at. His father is angry, not just because his child is a momma’s boy, but also because “Those breasts are only for me.” I already wanted to shut it off, but I had to give it a chance! The next scene was the now teenaged main character doing the classic highschool anime thing of avoiding responsibility on the school roof by laying down and staring at the sky. The school’s nurse, a beautiful woman in a bustier and mini-skirt, arrives and stands over top of him. There is then an extended conversation between this authority figure and the student about the woman’s panties being in his face, and how he’d like to sniff them. This panties conversation was interminable and unbearable, so I forced it to stop by deleting the game and removing the disc.
From what I've read Yu-No seems to be famous more for being a porn game with a whacked out plot mixed in and also being an early example of visual novels using some whacked out sci-fi contrivance for having saving and replaying be canon in-universe.
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,787
I was at the library and saw they had Yu-No: A Girl Who Chants Love at the Bound of this World for the PS4. I’d heard it was considered a “classic” among visual novels, and while every other Japanese classic visual novel I’ve tried has been sexist bullshit I decided to give it a try anyway! I mean, the main character is a girl! A girl who chants love!

It opens with what turns out to be the male main character as a child, hugging his busty and entirely nude mother whose breasts are perfectly framed for the camera to leer at. His father is angry, not just because his child is a momma’s boy, but also because “Those breasts are only for me.” I already wanted to shut it off, but I had to give it a chance! The next scene was the now teenaged main character doing the classic highschool anime thing of avoiding responsibility on the school roof by laying down and staring at the sky. The school’s nurse, a beautiful woman in a bustier and mini-skirt, arrives and stands over top of him. There is then an extended conversation between this authority figure and the student about the woman’s panties being in his face, and how he’d like to sniff them. This panties conversation was interminable and unbearable, so I forced it to stop by deleting the game and removing the disc.
When people say a Visual Novel is good there's a 50% chance its just an excuse to watch porn wrapped in a semi-interesting story.

...Then again I like the When They Cry... series so who am I to judge what quality is. Oh and Clannad is pretty good though the anime is more or less the same thing.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,976
From what I've read Yu-No seems to be famous more for being a porn game with a whacked out plot mixed in and also being an early example of visual novels using some whacked out sci-fi contrivance for having saving and replaying be canon in-universe.
When people say a Visual Novel is good there's a 50% chance its just an excuse to watch porn wrapped in a semi-interesting story.

...Then again I like the When They Cry... series so who am I to judge what quality is. Oh and Clannad is pretty good though the anime is more or less the same thing.
What I heard was that Yu-No wasn't particularly great on its own in the context of today, but was influential in its time.

More generally, I'm getting the feeling that eroge became so ingrained in visual novels that it's pretty much expected, to the point where if a writer or developer actually has a good story to put in one, they still have to include erotic elements to get it produced in the first place. And then maybe later there might be an "all-ages" PC version or an PlayStation version that's just the storyline, and maybe that was the version they really wanted to make. I've heard people in twitter who spoke to more general Japanese developers who might have implied this is how they feel about things like JRPGs these days. I don't know if it's actually true though.

Then again, we did manage to get stuff like Ace Attorney, 999, Root Letter, and Shibuya Scramble.
 

Chudah

Member
Apr 23, 2019
128
What I heard was that Yu-No wasn't particularly great on its own in the context of today, but was influential in its time.

More generally, I'm getting the feeling that eroge became so ingrained in visual novels that it's pretty much expected, to the point where if a writer or developer actually has a good story to put in one, they still have to include erotic elements to get it produced in the first place. And then maybe later there might be an "all-ages" PC version or an PlayStation version that's just the storyline, and maybe that was the version they really wanted to make.
This is almost 100% exactly what happened. It was so bad, they need to hamfist H-scenes into Key's games just to get a release, and the writers/devs HATED it. I think it was Little Busters where the music that plays during the H-scene is so fluffy and unbefitting of the situation that people laugh about it all the time.
 

residentgrigo

Member
Oct 30, 2019
575
Germany
Is this when I finally get to talk about YU-NO: A Girl Who Chants Love at the Bound of this World on the internet? Ho boi. I played the original 90s version due to a Hardcore Gaming 101 article a few years before the remake was announced. That´s the original R-18 hentai version for the PC. It may be the worst adventure game I ever played that isn´t "pure" porn but that´s debatable. Great score though.

There are endless pixel hunts (this is a first-person game) that are impossible without a guide. You need to constantly be at the right place at the right time without guidance, etc. And the story! Buckle up.
You play through all sorts of choose your own adventure scenarios for the first 2/3rds. The protagonist is the usual high school harem Chad and you know the tropes. Like all the tropes that were tired even in 1996. There is even a secret society made up of only people you know. Every woman in the game is a sex object and many get raped (to death) in front of you to titillate the player. The game drowns in sex.

You awake in a generic fantasy setting that is your past life after doing all the what-if plots and getting the hidden time McGuffins. Your wife is gang-raped to death in front of you but you and your daughter, that´s Yu-No, survive. You are a knight in a besieged kingdom. You raise and teach the very much underage girl sex by having sex with her a bunch. She becomes your new child-wife but you obviously have a harem besides that. The dialogue with her... It fucking broke me. A bunch of nonsense follows.

You die and awake back in the present and kinda solve the time dilemma... I guess? You also learn that one of the love interests you had sex within the present is another time-displaced daughter of yours. You also have sex with your older step-sister who rewards you for saving her from being raped. Don´t worry though. The game makes sure that she was raped a bunch before that. There is lastly an open ending but you and your daughter-bride, now a teen, will live together forever due to a soul bond with some of the other girls.
DO NOT TOUCH any version of this, even the less icky and more straightforward 17+ remake. The people who tell you that any version of this is a lost classic are insane in the membrane. 2/10, due to the score. I demand a personal apology from Hardcore Gaming 101 (the older article had rape focused screenshots btw.) and all sorts of anime and gaming blogs for making me go through this. I may have closed an "education gap" with Yu-No but the price was too heavy a burden.

PS: There is a hentai anime from 1998/99 that condenses the trash fire into 4 episodes, so not quite 2 hours. It adds even more incest, mother-daughter incest that is. It´s quite the crash course.

Edit: The developer Elf came up with Isaku. I rest my case.
 
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esserius

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,791
What I heard was that Yu-No wasn't particularly great on its own in the context of today, but was influential in its time.

More generally, I'm getting the feeling that eroge became so ingrained in visual novels that it's pretty much expected, to the point where if a writer or developer actually has a good story to put in one, they still have to include erotic elements to get it produced in the first place. And then maybe later there might be an "all-ages" PC version or an PlayStation version that's just the storyline, and maybe that was the version they really wanted to make. I've heard people in twitter who spoke to more general Japanese developers who might have implied this is how they feel about things like JRPGs these days. I don't know if it's actually true though.

Then again, we did manage to get stuff like Ace Attorney, 999, Root Letter, and Shibuya Scramble.
This basically is the Japanese VN reality now (Fate Stay Night being perhaps the most famous example). The vast majority of money for VNs goes to porn games and it's assumed that if you're making a VN that's the audience you're targeting.
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,787
This basically is the Japanese VN reality now (Fate Stay Night being perhaps the most famous example). The vast majority of money for VNs goes to porn games and it's assumed that if you're making a VN that's the audience you're targeting.
Ironically Clannad went the opposite direction, starting as a G-rated V-novel and only added sex scenes later

...Ironically given Clannad's subject matter you could argue that Clannad would be the one place where sex scenes might have made narrative sense.
 

Kewlmyc

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,709
Ironically Clannad went the opposite direction, starting as a G-rated V-novel and only added sex scenes later

...Ironically given Clannad's subject matter you could argue that Clannad would be the one place where sex scenes might have made narrative sense.
Clannad never had sex scenes in any of their releases.

The single character spinoff however...
 

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
4,931
Visual novels are a minefield, god. Even Steins;Gate, which I love for the most part, can get real leery, but it's thankfully mostly on the part of a side character.

I'm surprised visual novel devs haven't realized that the ones that perform better overseas are the ones that are more conceptual and less blatantly horny. 999, Ace Attorney, Root Letter...

Sure it makes sense to chase the easy money at home but there's a growing audience, and you can kinda tell with things like Yu-No basically brushing the creep factor under the rug abroad that they want to tap into it. But being surprised by the gross stuff just puts me off picking up any future games.
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,787
Visual novels are a minefield, god. Even Steins;Gate, which I love for the most part, can get real leery, but it's thankfully mostly on the part of a side character.

I'm surprised visual novel devs haven't realized that the ones that perform better overseas are the ones that are more conceptual and less blatantly horny. 999, Ace Attorney, Root Letter...

Sure it makes sense to chase the easy money at home but there's a growing audience, and you can kinda tell with things like Yu-No basically brushing the creep factor under the rug abroad that they want to tap into it. But being surprised by the gross stuff just puts me off picking up any future games.
We can hope Nintendo puts out Famicom Detective Club in the West and its success can be more proof that porn isn't needed in VN.