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Who is more broken: Madara or Aizen?

Who's more OP?

  • Madara

    Votes: 106 36.3%
  • Aizen

    Votes: 186 63.7%

  • Total voters
    292

DragonSJG

Member
Mar 4, 2019
3,492
Madara was so strong Kishimoto had to bring in Kaguya
But Aizen...wtf....he's too damn smart
 

Spenny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,914
Los Angeles
Aizen is broken as shit. Dude hasn’t even released Bankai (the basic-ass lvl 1 power up in Bleach) and is still an immortal powerhouse.
 

Captain C

Member
Oct 27, 2017
53
Remember that time Aizen created what was basically a black hole to kill Ichigo?

Remember that time that Aizen was in a chair made specifically to suppress his powers, and he not only made another black hole, but it was *stronger* than the last one? And he was going to use his suppressed power to literally *break the sky to bring Heaven down to him, since he was stuck in a chair?*
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,424
Okay, how did they even beat him? This guy's power is stupid.
I've read the series and I'm still not sure

Also, a reminder that the literal explanation for how Aizen lost involved them saying that it was only possible because he didn't actually want to win deep down

ALso this thread was just an excuse to get somebody to post the Madara copypasta, wasn't it
 

Byakuya769

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
2,073
I don't know who is more broken, but I can confidently say that Madara is more "fun broken" than Aizen, who is just "stupid broken." There is nothing exciting or entertaining about watching characters with the kinds of powers that Aizen has. At least Madara leads to cool choreographed fights.
That’s true. “What you thought you saw, wasn’t what you saw.”

Hate Aizen.
 
Nov 17, 2017
7,737
I don't even know what aizen's power is. I don't understand it
Complete hypnosis. He can basically control what all of your 5 senses experience. And all he needs to do is make you see his zanpaktou release - which he did to basically the entire Soul Society while telling them it was something else. He can also make a bunch of people experience the same illusion. It’s broken as hell.


It's Madara.

Aizen is losing to a fucking chair.
I agree but Madara lost to Mr. Game & Watch.
 

ArgyleReptile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,049
Should be noted that people of a certain level can't even get near Aizen or they'd be basically deleted by his mere presence.
 

Zetta

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,664
I remember reading Naruto and waiting for the eventual defeat of Madara but with Aizen I was just thinking how the story wasn't already over.
 

Defuser

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,078
Aizen, its always Aizen. Dude's Shikai alone is the most powerful thing in the bleach universe and thats just his fucking Shikai. If his shikai is already so fucking broken can you imagine his bankai.

People say Kubo wrote himself into the corner when he introduce Yhwach but really he wrote himself in the corner a longtime ago with Aizen's Shikai with no actual way to countering it unless you were blind from birth. Kubo couldn't even think of way to make a bankai for aizen when his shikai is already too powerful.
 

Monsoon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
413
It's Uchiha Madara and everyone saying it isn't needs a vibe check. At full power no fictional character can beat him without author intervention.
 

Ogodei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,183
Coruscant
Madara, both for in-universe and out-of-universe reasons.

I'm not a fan of Aizen the walking plot black hole, but he was thematically consistent. He was a man who was too awesome and powerful, all the way back from the beginning. He was bored, bored of his own existence and sought anything possible for a challenge, so he sought the Hogyoku to make himself as powerful as he could, but at the same time raised up Ichigo. It's shown in how the Hogyoku abandons him in the end, because it's granting him his ultimate wish, to be defeated.

So while in-universe, Aizen was laid low because of his own unconscious desires, Madara in-universe was brought down by a true deus ex machina, an out-of-nowhere lore expansion.that was only conjured to break out of the plot dead end he had become. And it wasn't just a plot dead end about *power*, mind. As you see with Aizen, any writer can write their way out of an OP villain if they want. No, Madara's problem was that he was, thematically, unbeatable. It's not that he was right about Infinite Tsukuyomi, but his gripe with the world was really about the Duality of Man, about how every victory needs a defeat and every light casts a shadow. Kishimoto created a villain whose ideals were so well-crafted that Naruto could not talk-no-jutsu his way out of it, he could not defeat Madara in the way that he brought down any others.
 

Monsoon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
413
Madara, both for in-universe and out-of-universe reasons.

I'm not a fan of Aizen the walking plot black hole, but he was thematically consistent. He was a man who was too awesome and powerful, all the way back from the beginning. He was bored, bored of his own existence and sought anything possible for a challenge, so he sought the Hogyoku to make himself as powerful as he could, but at the same time raised up Ichigo. It's shown in how the Hogyoku abandons him in the end, because it's granting him his ultimate wish, to be defeated.

So while in-universe, Aizen was laid low because of his own unconscious desires, Madara in-universe was brought down by a true deus ex machina, an out-of-nowhere lore expansion.that was only conjured to break out of the plot dead end he had become. And it wasn't just a plot dead end about *power*, mind. As you see with Aizen, any writer can write their way out of an OP villain if they want. No, Madara's problem was that he was, thematically, unbeatable. It's not that he was right about Infinite Tsukuyomi, but his gripe with the world was really about the Duality of Man, about how every victory needs a defeat and every light casts a shadow. Kishimoto created a villain whose ideals were so well-crafted that Naruto could not talk-no-jutsu his way out of it, he could not defeat Madara in the way that he brought down any others.
The worst part is that Boruto proves that Madara was right. The series segues directly in to a sequel that is a continuation of their war reliant system. Their world is rotten and everyone lives at the expense of someone else be it the smaller villages or the children raised and trained to be ninjas for hire for government missions. They should have just let him create his Tsukuyomi matrix and called it a day.
 

Hoa

Member
Jun 6, 2018
999
Stop, he let Ichigo win it has been explained. Aizen vs an all seeing god
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,423
They're both broken but Madara is at least entertaining about it.

Aizen is more like that asshole in DnD who is completely up his own ass about how great he is, completely ignores everything the DM says about what's going on in the game, and just prefers to make up his own bullshit instead.

Except Yhwach is even worse in that regard.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
19,974
DFW, Texas
It's Aizen. He was so broken and overpowered that he became a meme for it. The guy had so many "you thought you won? lol" moments that it was ridiculous.


Madara is strong, but he was never THAT broken.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,423
It's Aizen. He was so broken and overpowered that he became a meme for it. The guy had so many "you thought you won? lol" moments that it was ridiculous.


Madara is strong, but he was never THAT broken.
Bleach used "lol you thought you won?" as a replacement for actual fighting for its last hundred chapters or so.

I swear every fight chapter started and ended with some variation of it.
 

Ricky Ricardo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
619
Atlanta, GA
I uhh, I gotta hand it to ButterflAizen. I straight up laughed the entire Yhwach arc as he trolled and trolled. Kubo just stopped trying altogether. Dude became a consummate GOTCHA at every turn.
 

Daingurse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,831
AZ
Madara was insane. I honestly couldn't have bought him being defeated, until the Kaguya fuckery.
 

FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,613
Tokyo
Im going with Madara only due to the fact Naruto needed a deus xmachina BS to win. Aizen pylled a Thanos and never really wanted to win. Madara would have won if not for some crazy shit.
 

Hoa

Member
Jun 6, 2018
999
We never saw his bankai even in the manga?
Yep never used it. Even Kenpachi got to show off his Bankai (and do nothing useful with it except make another broken character stronger)

Kubo just went all out with the craziness at the last arc. Aizen, Yhwach, Miracle, even Gremmy could have ended the manga earlier than it did.

Almost forgot about Lille Barro who was destroyed by a weapon that was only created to reflect the power of a god it is facing.
 

zashga

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,002
Aizen should’ve lost to Gin, Madara should’ve lost to Guy. Advantage Aizen, I guess.
 

Vegeto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
227
Frankfurt
Aizen is to me the most entertaining villan in the shonen genre. Why is that? He is completely broken, a huge troll und really smart. Sure it was sometimes way over the top, like he knew everything and you could think he was actually drawing the manga, but it was fun. To me he is a broken legend.

Madara, to be honest I never liked him.
 

BKatastrophe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,514
Like, I only watched the anime so I can't speak to the last arc of Bleach, but Aizen never seemed obscenely broken until he got the Hogykoku, but that was the entire point. Like, he worked for everything. Soul Reapers have four areas they can train in, if I recall correctly they are: kido, swordsmanship, flash step, and hand-to-hand and he maxed stats in all of them. Then, he studied his ass off to find a way to increase his power and was like "hmmmmm that seems valid" and intentionally cultivated an image that would let him do so. His shikai was powerful, but the requirement to be able to do it was kind of ridiculous and in that sense was easy to avoid.

You really have to look at it, at least until the end of the Fake Karakura Town arc and go, "how much of it was Aizen playing the mind game, and how much was his shikai?" Because there were even a few moments where captains called out that something wasn't right and saw through it. Yamamoto did, though it took getting stabbed to do it, and if I recall Unohana did back during the Rescue arc. I'm not saying Aizen wasn't powerful, and like I said I haven't read past the anime, but Aizen never seemed that obscene to me. He's no Xehanort, for example.
 

MrElusive

Alt-Account
Banned
Apr 9, 2019
116
Has to be Madara. This fucker dropped 2 fucking Meteors on the Battlefield like it was nothing .
 

psynergyadept

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,351
Aizen; solely because he was a masterful troll! Every time they thought they had them he'd hit them with "Since when did you think...?" And straight fuck them with his shikai.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,592
Has to be Madara. This fucker dropped 2 fucking Meteors on the Battlefield like it was nothing .
eh that’s really nothing. Gremmy was summoning meteors and literal vacuum space casually, and Ywhach was a tier above that. Aizen still had Ywhach sweating. If it wasn’t for Aizen, Tsukishima, Ichigo, and Ishida’s late game brokenness Ywhach would have won. Every single one of them was necessary to beat the main bad guy.
 

Hystzen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
947
Manchester UK
Aizen told Ywach to fuck off while strapped to a chair that was supposed to in prison him but he broke the seal years before.

madara was immortal but gave it up for more power which made no sense at all when I read it dude destroyed the whole alliance while a immortal zombie even order rode his control so had no reason to give up immortality