• The GiftBot 2.0 Launch Giveaway Extravaganza has come to a close with an astounding 8073 games given away to the community by 696 members, a huge success thanks to you! The gifting now continues with more official prizes in the new Gaming Giveaways |OT|. Leftover Steam codes are also being given away to the PC Gaming Era community.

What morally wrong things do you do?

squall23

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,323
Does lying to the boss about how hard the job is (when it very much isn't) and thus leading to a higher salary count? Because I and my supervisor have been doing this for years. My supervisor even longer.
 

YaBish

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,182
I eat way more meat than I should (though mostly chicken, so at least not red meat). I've got fairly severe food restrictions because of my allergies and EOE, so most of my diet is rice, meat, and vegetables.

On a probably more immoral stance, I wake up every morning and check to see if Trump has kicked the bucket yet.
 

Bastos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
456
I don't get up for old people in my commutes. I'm too tired to care and it's a 2-hour trip coming and going every miserable day. I wake up earlier than needed just so I can sit.
 

Denamitea

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,272
Nothing?
If I found it morally wrong I wouldn’t do it?

I mean according to ERA the following things I do are immoral:

-smoking
-eating meat
-having children

but I think any of those being immoral is hilarious so obviously since this list is subjective, I’m clean
What’s hilarious about eating meat being immoral?
 
Oct 28, 2017
861
I eat way more meat than I should (though mostly chicken, so at least not red meat). I've got fairly severe food restrictions because of my allergies and EOE, so most of my diet is rice, meat, and vegetables.

On a probably more immoral stance, I wake up every morning and check to see if Trump has kicked the bucket yet.
Eating chicken is more unethical than red meat, just marginally less damaging to the environment. Not only do most chickens live in disgusting conditions (>99% in factory farms) and have been bred to grow so fast and so large they cannot support their own weight, but they produce less meat per individual than larger animals. You end up being responsible for far more suffering and death if you eat chicken instead of cows considering the massive disparity in size. Of course the only ethical option is to eat neither, but the one dietary change for the vast majority of people that makes the most difference in terms of animal suffering is to stop eating chicken.
 

Shugga

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,137
Eating chicken is more unethical than red meat, just marginally less damaging to the environment. Not only do most chickens live in disgusting conditions (>99% in factory farms) and have been bred to grow so fast and so large they cannot support their own weight, but they produce less meat per individual than larger animals. You end up being responsible for far more suffering and death if you eat chicken instead of cows considering the massive disparity in size. Of course the only ethical option is to eat neither, but the one dietary change for the vast majority of people that makes the most difference in terms of animal suffering is to stop eating chicken.
If you eat garbage fast food nuggets that's true, but there are options these days to buy "ethical" chicken meat
I eat chicken once or twice a week, some pork and almost no beef, beef isn't that much better than the rest anyway
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,870
If you eat garbage fast food nuggets that's true, but there are options these days to buy "ethical" chicken meat
I eat chicken once or twice a week, some pork and almost no beef, beef isn't that much better than the rest anyway
The demand for meat cannot be met by "ethical" means. It is not a solution, unfortunately, even if it is better individual impact.
 
Oct 28, 2017
861
If you eat garbage fast food nuggets that's true, but there are options these days to buy "ethical" chicken meat
I eat chicken once or twice a week, some pork and almost no beef, beef isn't that much better than the rest anyway
There is no such thing as ethical chicken meat. Unless the chickens died of natural causes in the wild? The point stands that removing chicken from your diet is usually the most effective first step towards ethical consumption (possibly removing fish would be more effective for those who rely on seafood diets).
 

Shugga

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,137
The demand for meat cannot be met by "ethical" means. It is not a solution, unfortunately, even if it is better individual impact.
There is no such thing as ethical chicken meat. Unless the chickens died of natural causes in the wild? The point stands that removing chicken from your diet is usually the most effective first step towards ethical consumption (possibly removing fish would be more effective for those who rely on seafood diets).
I know it's a drop in the bucket, I'm very aware that most chicken production is terrible, unfortunately.
 

Tomasoares

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,318
My main point was that you phrase it in such a way that made it seem like Era as a community considers things like making an average wages or drinking occasionally immoral and ibdont believe thats accurate.

The only way I could see someone condemning either is if it was done recklessly or in excess.
It was just a generalization, of course not everyone thinks the same about morally wrong things.
 

Mondai

Member
Dec 8, 2018
2,761
No one is truly moral anyway , like astro said, we are do immoral things , it’s best just admit that reality and keep living your life ;)
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,378
Honestly cant think of anything really, been a Vegan for about 2 months and a vegetarian for 17 years so nothing to worry about there.

Don't own a car and use public transport everywhere.

Only been on a plane 7 times in 34 years since most of my holidays have been in the UK.

Dont have any kids so not adding to the problem.

Only thing actually is I dont recycle at home. Used to recycle a tonne of stuff in our old place but we moved and now for some reason our new place doesn't have a recycling service and since I dont drive we cant take it to somewhere to be recycled. Really pissed off about that as we always made the effort to recycle as much as we could and felt proud of how much we did.
 

Released

Member
Oct 27, 2017
174
I lie wayyyy too much. Need to be better about it.

That's the only one that jumps to mind that isn't the soup of "existing in Western society and participating in its systems and toxic capitalist economy," but all of us are in on that one.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,353
The Netherlands
Reading the dictionary definitions right now, and you're absolutely right!



I don't disagree with any of this. My issue is solely with the naive fantasy of rehabilitation instead of punishment that is brought up in every online discussion of prison.



Despite claims to the contrary there is no objective morality. Even if every human that ever existed agreed that x is immoral, it's still just an idea we agree all with, not an objective truth.

There is little difference between:

If you do not NEED the meat, you are putting your taste for meat ahead of the death and/or suffering and eventual death of an animal.

That is inherently immoral, and you should be okay admitting that.


and

If you do not NEED the abortion, you are putting your selfish desires ahead of the death and/or suffering and eventual death of an innocent baby.

That is inherently immoral, and you should be okay admitting that.


Just folks insisting that their moral views are correct and thus every one must admit it. But while telling someone who eats meat that they are immoral is fine here, telling a woman who had an abortion that she is immoral would rightfully see one banned.

Abortion is a controversial issue in society, and while the production of meat is a contentious issue in this age of climate change awareness, the eating of meat isn't controversial at all to the vast majority of humanity.
I agree that morality is grey and isn't objective.

No, it being not as severe doesn't make it subjective.

If your CHOICE to eat something tasty results in the death or suffering and death of an animal, that is immoral.

You should be able to own that without trying to worm out of it.
I've been vegan and vegetarian for over a decade, now I eat chicken and fish, simply because I care more about myself(and no it's not just about taste, because it's bs that everyone can be vegan) and care less about these animals than let's say goats for example.

I'm not wurming my way out of anything, I know all the arguments. I also don't care if it's immoral because being morally pure is a fantasy goal.

As it stands, the majority of people, in the west or otherwise, don't agree with you that eating meat is immoral.

It is in your opinion, and that of many vegans, but not for the majority of humanity.

Honestly, it's a pointless discussion when we have different ideas about morality.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,870
I agree that morality is grey and isn't objective.



I've been vegan and vegetarian for over a decade, now I eat chicken and fish, simply because I care more about myself(and no it's not just about taste, because it's bs that everyone can be vegan) and care less about these animals than let's say goats for example.

I'm not wurming my way out of anything, I know all the arguments. I also don't care if it's immoral because being morally pure is a fantasy goal.

As it stands, the majority of people, in the west or otherwise, don't agree with you that eating meat is immoral.

It is in your opinion, and that of many vegans, but not for the majority of humanity.

Honestly, it's a pointless discussion when we have different ideas about morality.
No, you are attempting to worm out of this.

If meat is not a NEED, it is a CHOICE.

You already said you decided to eat meat again because you don't care, so that's it. You don't care enough to make this specific moral choice.

We all make immoral choices in western society.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,353
The Netherlands
No, you are attempting to work out of this.

If meat is not a NEED, it is a CHOICE.

Your CHOICE to eat something tastey results in the death or suffering and eventual death of an animal.

It doesn't matter how many of you disagree with it, that is immoral.

Unless you can explain how your choice to eat something tastey is more valuable than an animal's life?
Genuinely don't understand you, how am I attempting to work myself out of it when I said I don't care if it's immoral?

The reasons why I chose to eat fish and chicken are more valuable to me than their lives, otherwise I wouldn't have done it.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,870
Genuinely don't understand you, how am I attempting to work myself out of it when I said I don't care if it's immoral?

The reasons why I chose to eat fish and chicken are more valuable to me than their lives, otherwise I wouldn't have done it.
If meat is a NEED to you, you have not expressed that at all. Express it, and we can acknowledge it.

Unless you can argue how your taste for meat is more valid than the life of an animal?

We ALL make immoral choices in western society. If meat is a CHOICE for you, this is one of yours.
 
Last edited:

Stinkles

343 Industries
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
15,405
I surreptitiously peel the hdmi stickers off every tv in people’s houses and I turn off motion smoothing when they go to the bathroom.
 

Wackamole

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,286
I’m a loving father of an 11 year old son.
So one fine day some Thanos incel will send me to the deepest asspitt of ResetEra hell.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,353
The Netherlands
I edited my post because this is futile, but you responded...

If meat is a NEED to you, you have not expressed that at all. Express it, and we can acknowledge it.

If it is a CHOICE, you are putting your desire to consume something tastey ahead of the death or suffering and eventual death of an animal, and there is no way that is not immoral and it doesn't matter if you disagree.

Unless you can argue how your taste for meat is more valid than the life of an animal?

We ALL make immoral choices in western society. If meat is a CHOICE for you, this is one of yours.

PS - it was already established what NEED and CHOICE covered earlier on, btw.

Medical necessity, location necessity, etc... what is your NEED?
Or you could just ask why I made the decision instead of wagging the finger.

Taste is one of the things.

I don't actually like beans or many plant-based meals, I'm not going to eat something I can't stand the taste of. I found it hard to eat enough(or varied) protein and I became pretty weak over the years.

Meat substitutes are fine, but I've omitted sugar from my diet for quite a while now and a majority of these substitutes contain both sugar and various other forms of sugar.

I don't want to bother others in social situations, and eating chicken and fish gives me at least some options in every restaurant.

It takes too much time to plan and prepare meals.

I don't need anything acknowledged and I don't care what you established as need or choice, because you're not the police of that.

We all make immoral choices in the world period, no need to single out western society. If you insinuated that people outside of western society mostly make moral choices then you're living in fantasy land. As a gay person I would not want to live in most non-western societies(hell, loads would kill me), most of the world is hella homophobic and transphobic, it's like people keep forgetting that now.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,870
Or you could just ask why I made the decision instead of wagging the finger.

Taste is one of the things.

I don't actually like beans or many plant-based meals, I'm not going to eat something I can't stand the taste of. I found it hard to eat enough(or varied) protein and I became pretty weak over the years.

Meat substitutes are fine, but I've omitted sugar from my diet for quite a while now and a majority of these substitutes contain both sugar and various other forms of sugar.

I don't want to bother others in social situations, and eating chicken and fish gives me at least some options in every restaurant.

It takes too much time to plan and prepare meals.

I don't need anything acknowledged and I don't care what you established as need or choice, because you're not the police of that.

We all make immoral choices in the world period, no need to single out western society. If you insinuated that people outside of western society mostly make moral choices then you're living in fantasy land. As a gay person I would not want to live in most non-western societies(hell, loads would kill me), most of the world is hella homophobic and transphobic, it's like people keep forgetting that now.
Firstly, I'm not policing what NEED vs CHOICE is. This was established on page two:

The point obviously has some clear caveats:

1. If you live somewhere where a vegan diet is reasonable (and many of us do), and you have no health concerns that prevent you from making the change, choosing to eat meat and dairy is immoral.
2. Meat and dairy demands can only be met via the meat and dairy industries.

Even if YOU locally source and NEVER eat out or cook for others, the demand for this diet cannot be met WITHOUT cruel and barbaric industries.

Therefore, eating meat is immoral if it is a choice.
You are putting your dinning experience overt the suffering of living creatures.

DISCLAIMER FOR THOSE WHO NEED IT
- This doesn't mean vegans = morally superior, it just means in this SINGLE instance of considerations they have made a moral choice.
- This doesn't mean meat eaters are bad people.
- We ALL make decisions that could be considered immoral in our society that is built upon the suffering of others in many, many ways. To deny this is absurd.
Only we know if things truly are a necessity for us. If it is truly a necessity for you then I have never been highlighting your personal immoral choice so I don't understand why you have continued to argue.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,870
Eating meat and having kids are immoral now?
If eating meat is not a necessity for you. How is it not immoral to choose to end a life just to satisfy your appetite? Especially if you are contributing to the barbaric and cruel most industry by doing so.

Please provide an argument how eating meat as a choice is not immoral.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,524
Still eat factory farmed meat and dairy though I rarely eat red meat. I would feel less bad if it was more sustainable and welfare wasn't shit. I have no problem with killing for food in of itself, just the way that most of us consume it.

My job requires a car for the most part, might look into carbon offsetting until an electric car is feasible
 

hom3land

Member
Oct 27, 2017
781
Still eat factory farmed chicken, leave my home server on 24/7, and I don't drive an all electric car..


But hey at least I don't do coke!
 

zoodoo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,571
Montreal
If eating meat is not a necessity for you. How is it not immoral to choose to end a life just to satisfy your appetite? Especially if you are contributing to the barbaric and cruel most industry by doing so.

Please provide an argument how eating meat as a choice is not immoral.
the meat industry is definitely immoral but you can't put the responsibility on each individual consumer. The fact of eating meat itself is not immoral but the way that meat is acquired might be.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,870
the meat industry is definitely immoral but you can't put the responsibility on each individual consumer. The fact of eating meat itself is not immoral but the way that meat is acquired might be.
You absolutely can put the responsibility on individuals. It's very clear that individual choice has impact, as more and more vegan options are being explored due to the number of individuals taking up the lifestyle choice.

If you have the choice to eat meat, it is immoral to do so.

If meat is necessity, it is not a choice.
 

zoodoo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,571
Montreal
You absolutely can put the responsibility on individuals. It's very clear that individual choice has impact, as more and more vegan options are being explored due to the number of individuals taking up the lifestyle choice.

If you have the choice to eat meat, it is immoral to do so.

If meat is necessity, it is not a choice.
Let's agree to disagree. To me that's taking it way too far.
 

Gawge

Member
Oct 27, 2017
626
I live comfortably and have savings, yet there are countless people who are homeless and living in poverty close to where I live, let alone nationally and globally.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,870
Let's agree to disagree. To me that's taking it way too far.
It's not "too far", it's simple reality.

You should be able to acknowledge the fact eating meat is immoral when it is a choice, same as you should for many actions that we all choose to make in capitalist society.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,524
Got another one lol

Often buy plastic bottled water because I'm too lazy to go downstairs and get it from the tap

The bottles get recycled but still

Pretty sure I'll reproduce too, lock me up era moral thought police
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,870
Got another one lol

Often buy plastic bottled water because I'm too lazy to go downstairs and get it from the tap

The bottles get recycled but still

Pretty sure I'll reproduce too, lock me up era moral thought police
I drink bottled water too. It's definitely a cause for concern. There is a really good Netflix documentary on this and similar aspects of consumerism called Rotten.