- Oct 27, 2017
I live in a capitalist society.
For the rest, I have the right to remain silent.
For the rest, I have the right to remain silent.
I feel you on this. So many animals killed every day that are treated just like a raw material on an assembly line. Despite being sentient beings.
Punishment doesn't equal, and is not synonymous with, retribution.
In my legal system it specifically is described as retribution. And google says “punishment” and “penalty” both have similar application. Trust me, when I first heard it, I thought retribution was a far more aggressive term than it is in actuality. There’s a provision in our sentencing legislation which provides the order for the 5 sentencing consideration factors (minus misc mitigating factors) and rehab is number one, retribution number five.Punishment doesn't equal, and is not synonymous with, retribution.
How does one "consider rehabilitation" of an unrepentant serial killer before punishment? Rehabilitation should be considered where applicable, and that consideration should be a part of an individuals punishment, not instead of.
Sometimes the moral thing to do is not forgive someone because of the severity of their action or a lack of real change on their part.
Yeah, I agree with your general point about consumption as well, but I didn't write it because it's harder to avoid consuming anything than it is to avoid meat. "No ethical consumption under capitalism" and all that.I feel you on this. So many animals killed every day that are treated just like a raw material on an assembly line. Despite being sentient beings.
I am, with practically all consumers, part of that problem. The meat industry has successfully put enough distance between ”animal” and ”meat on plate” that most of us consumers never have to think about it. Same with clothes and electronics and all other items manufactured under horrible conditions for the workers and others.
Really wish you people would stop with the ridiculous generalizations. Not everyone on Era thinks all of that is morally wrong and its dishonest to pretend that they do.By Era's standards:
-> Being a capitalist (also leaning into being libertarian)
-> Eating meat.
-> Eating too much.
-> No physical activities.
-> Using Uber, Airbnb.
-> Earning more money than the average here (I earn $1k while the average here is $600.
-> Drinking ocasionally.
-> Watch pirate movies
"I hate being an era member and that's interesting"
Yeah I don't get it either, but that list is especially disingenuous even by the usual standards of whining.
I understand, but I wouldn’t go that far. I believe you can call out abuses without rejecting (regulated) capitalism. I appreciate your position of not wanting to go down that whole road of “no ethical consumption under capitalism” so no worries.
In western society eating meat being immoral is not subjective, but rather dependent on a few criteria.Nothing?
If I found it morally wrong I wouldn’t do it?
I mean according to ERA the following things I do are immoral:
but I think any of those being immoral is hilarious so obviously since this list is subjective, I’m clean
Is it? Because they sure don't act like it. People pretty clearly act every day based on a lifetime of influences from their body to their environment, to their own past selves.Would you consider mass rearing, slaughtering and eating 4 year old kids immoral? Because that's pretty much how smart pigs are. YMMV of course.
Plus all the planetary fucking up meat does by being incredibly inefficient and waste-productive. Unless all you eat is locally grown chicken and rabbit.
I used to subscribe to that until I read more about the currently understood, and absolutely wild, depths of quantum mechanics and quantum theory.
It's looking more and more like conscious human brains are really quantum objects that actually can defy any sort of determinism the universe throws at them. Of course, we're still at the universe's whim at a larger, celestial scale.
If this were true the majority of Westerners would be vegan/vegetarian.
Forgiveness has nothing to do with morality. It has everything to do with the person doing the forgiving. Forgiveness isn't for *them*, it for *you*.
I just read the others list and I added things I also do.Yeah I don't get it either, but that list is especially disingenuous even by the usual standards of whining.
Drinking occasionally? Making more money than the average? GTFO of here with that. The only way people care about that stuff is when it's excessive or reckless.
So humans aren’t omnivores?
I'm going to have to steal this trick. But that's my sin, too -- I often pretend to be working when I'm spending time on Resetera. But I don't consider that that bad because 8 hours of work every day that you just don't need to do what you need to do are bull shit.
So we were cavemen, clubbing each other over the head is perfectly fine?
My main point was that you phrase it in such a way that made it seem like Era as a community considers things like making an average wages or drinking occasionally immoral and ibdont believe thats accurate.
There are plenty of immoral things that aren't as severe as the things you listed. You're being incredibly dishonest here.
Are there any moral societies according to you?
I'm just saying it's not at the severity of those things, which IMO makes it subjective.
Reading the dictionary definitions right now, and you're absolutely right!
I don't disagree with any of this. My issue is solely with the naive fantasy of rehabilitation instead of punishment that is brought up in every online discussion of prison.And it’s simple, btw. You *consider* rehabilitation first. You don’t have to choose that path, but it must be considered, weighed and if not pursued, then justified where possible. Obviously there needs to be an aspect of imprisonment in a crime like that, but if you’re depriving the liberty of others, you ought to do all you can to find some way to rectify their behaviour where viable.
Despite claims to the contrary there is no objective morality. Even if every human that ever existed agreed that x is immoral, it's still just an idea we agree all with, not an objective truth.
No, it being not as severe doesn't make it subjective.
Of course they're subject to countless external influences. Its what allows our minds to exist in the first place.Is it? Because they sure don't act like it. People pretty clearly act every day based on a lifetime of influences from their body to their environment, to their own past selves.
If anything, punishment is immoral for one major reason: the person who did the thing isn't the one who suffers the punishment. This is why rehabilitation is, IMO, the only moral approach to "punishing" a wrong.
Yes I completely agree, and this is still true in light of humans having actual volition and not existing on a deterministic railroad.