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What morally wrong things do you do?

God_Of_Phwoar

Member
May 29, 2018
2,703
Near London UK
Just the other day i was at a service station. Ordered a KFC bacon sandwich for £1.99. I handed the lady a £5 note and she handed me £8.01 change and a bacon sandwich. I smiled, thanked her, and walked.

I would have been honest if i was in an independently run/owned cafe, but fuck KFC.

(and no, i dont believe for a second that she or anyone who works their would have been punished in any way for the till being £3 under)
 

Illuvatar

Member
Jan 22, 2019
45
I don't believe in the whole concept of morality, so nothing. But, there are definitely things that would make the world a better place if I didn't do them, like eating meat, not doing enough to change my carbon footprint, not going up on the streets to protect our liberties etc.
Also, I don't see anything wrong with having sex / relationship with somebody who is married, that is for the person cheating to consider, not yourself.
 

John Caboose

Member
Oct 26, 2017
936
Sweden
I eat meat. That's the big one, for me, I think. I contribute to a lot of suffering that I don't feel I can defend.
I feel you on this. So many animals killed every day that are treated just like a raw material on an assembly line. Despite being sentient beings. 😔

I am, with practically all consumers, part of that problem. The meat industry has successfully put enough distance between ”animal” and ”meat on plate” that most of us consumers never have to think about it. Same with clothes and electronics and all other items manufactured under horrible conditions for the workers and others.
 

Aldi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,632
United Kingdom
As a reaction I sometimes tell the homeless that I don't carry cash, even when I do have cash.

And when people stop me in the street to sign petitions, change energy providers, sign up for charities I always tell them I have an appointment so can't stop, even when I have all the time in the world.

And I make unnecessary trips in the car when it's raining.
 

HeavenlyOne

The Fallen
Nov 30, 2017
803
Your heart
Sounds like a shitty system tbh. Rehabilitation must be considered before retribution, protection of society, sending a message to society etc in my legal system.
Punishment doesn't equal, and is not synonymous with, retribution.

How does one "consider rehabilitation" of an unrepentant serial killer before punishment? Rehabilitation should be considered where applicable, and that consideration should be a part of an individuals punishment, not instead of.
 

Skade

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,658
Since about anything can be deemed morally wrong by someone somewhere in this stupid fucking world, i'd then say : probably everything i do is morally wrong. And i don't care.
 

ty_hot

Member
Dec 14, 2017
3,532
I use Uber (rarely, but I do), same for Uber Eats. Hate using them (or similar) because it contributes to companies whose main business strategy is fuck over it's workers.

I try to avoid Airbnb as well, when travelling I try to find a host that is actually a host and not a fucking "investor".
 

Subpar Scrub

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,988
Punishment doesn't equal, and is not synonymous with, retribution.

How does one "consider rehabilitation" of an unrepentant serial killer before punishment? Rehabilitation should be considered where applicable, and that consideration should be a part of an individuals punishment, not instead of.
In my legal system it specifically is described as retribution. And google says “punishment” and “penalty” both have similar application. Trust me, when I first heard it, I thought retribution was a far more aggressive term than it is in actuality. There’s a provision in our sentencing legislation which provides the order for the 5 sentencing consideration factors (minus misc mitigating factors) and rehab is number one, retribution number five.

And it’s simple, btw. You *consider* rehabilitation first. You don’t have to choose that path, but it must be considered, weighed and if not pursued, then justified where possible. Obviously there needs to be an aspect of imprisonment in a crime like that, but if you’re depriving the liberty of others, you ought to do all you can to find some way to rectify their behaviour where viable.
 

Jegriva

Member
Sep 23, 2019
1,045
I asked for Christmas 1996 a Tiger R-Zone headset.

And I would had bought even the Virtual Boy, if it came out in Europe, knowing my 9- years old sef.
 

VulcanRaven

Banned
Oct 21, 2019
61
Nothing?
If I found it morally wrong I wouldn’t do it?

I mean according to ERA the following things I do are immoral:

-smoking
-eating meat
-having children

but I think any of those being immoral is hilarious so obviously since this list is subjective, I’m clean
 

hjort

Member
Nov 9, 2017
1,679
I feel you on this. So many animals killed every day that are treated just like a raw material on an assembly line. Despite being sentient beings. 😔

I am, with practically all consumers, part of that problem. The meat industry has successfully put enough distance between ”animal” and ”meat on plate” that most of us consumers never have to think about it. Same with clothes and electronics and all other items manufactured under horrible conditions for the workers and others.
Yeah, I agree with your general point about consumption as well, but I didn't write it because it's harder to avoid consuming anything than it is to avoid meat. "No ethical consumption under capitalism" and all that.
 

Shadow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,364
I say I go to sleep to others but then proceed to browse Era and what not for like an hour. In fact I’m doing that right now :(
 

Solar Puffin

Member
Oct 8, 2018
2,759
Sydney
Outside of eating meat, I can't think of much.

I mean, I drive a car, but I can't really afford to not have one where I live and I'm also not in a position to move.
 

Tomasoares

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,287
By Era's standards:

-> Being a capitalist (also leaning into being libertarian)
-> Eating meat.
-> Eating too much.
-> No physical activities.
-> Using Uber, Airbnb.
-> Earning more money than the average here (I earn $1k while the average here is $600.
-> Drinking ocasionally.
-> Watch pirate movies
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
19,787
DFW, Texas
By Era's standards:

-> Being a capitalist (also leaning into being libertarian)
-> Eating meat.
-> Eating too much.
-> No physical activities.
-> Using Uber, Airbnb.
-> Earning more money than the average here (I earn $1k while the average here is $600.
-> Drinking ocasionally.
-> Watch pirate movies
Really wish you people would stop with the ridiculous generalizations. Not everyone on Era thinks all of that is morally wrong and its dishonest to pretend that they do.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
19,787
DFW, Texas
"I hate being an era member and that's interesting"
A growing trend. Makes you think why they don't just leave.
Yeah I don't get it either, but that list is especially disingenuous even by the usual standards of whining.


Drinking occasionally? Making more money than the average? GTFO of here with that. The only way people care about that stuff is when it's excessive or reckless.
 

John Caboose

Member
Oct 26, 2017
936
Sweden
Yeah, I agree with your general point about consumption as well, but I didn't write it because it's harder to avoid consuming anything than it is to avoid meat. "No ethical consumption under capitalism" and all that.
I understand, but I wouldn’t go that far. I believe you can call out abuses without rejecting (regulated) capitalism. I appreciate your position of not wanting to go down that whole road of “no ethical consumption under capitalism” so no worries.

I find that sort of absolutism exhaustingly insipid and so I had no intent of going down that road myself.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,272
Nothing?
If I found it morally wrong I wouldn’t do it?

I mean according to ERA the following things I do are immoral:

-smoking
-eating meat
-having children

but I think any of those being immoral is hilarious so obviously since this list is subjective, I’m clean
In western society eating meat being immoral is not subjective, but rather dependent on a few criteria.

If you don't need the meat, it is immoral. This is not according to "Era", just reality.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,035
Mount Airy, MD
Would you consider mass rearing, slaughtering and eating 4 year old kids immoral? Because that's pretty much how smart pigs are. YMMV of course.

Plus all the planetary fucking up meat does by being incredibly inefficient and waste-productive. Unless all you eat is locally grown chicken and rabbit.


I used to subscribe to that until I read more about the currently understood, and absolutely wild, depths of quantum mechanics and quantum theory.

It's looking more and more like conscious human brains are really quantum objects that actually can defy any sort of determinism the universe throws at them. Of course, we're still at the universe's whim at a larger, celestial scale.
Is it? Because they sure don't act like it. People pretty clearly act every day based on a lifetime of influences from their body to their environment, to their own past selves.

If anything, punishment is immoral for one major reason: the person who did the thing isn't the one who suffers the punishment. This is why rehabilitation is, IMO, the only moral approach to "punishing" a wrong.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,272
If this were true the majority of Westerners would be vegan/vegetarian.
No.

Plenty if us do immoral things living in a capitalist society. Been over this a few times now in this thread.

If you do not NEED the meat, you are putting your taste for meat ahead of the death and/or suffering and eventual death of an animal.

That is inherently immoral, and you should be okay admitting that.
 

Soph

Member
Oct 25, 2017
801
I watch movies and tv shows wearing an eye patch singing yarr harrr ho and a buttle of rum.
I do a bunch of narcotics, it's not actually that immoral where I live though.
 

Tomasoares

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,287
Yeah I don't get it either, but that list is especially disingenuous even by the usual standards of whining.


Drinking occasionally? Making more money than the average? GTFO of here with that. The only way people care about that stuff is when it's excessive or reckless.
I just read the others list and I added things I also do.
I don't think many of these are immoral tbh (bar pirating, eating too much and doing no physical activities)
 

Doggg

Member
Nov 17, 2017
4,322
I finish my work early and then send it out on an email delay to make it look like it took me all day.
I'm going to have to steal this trick. But that's my sin, too -- I often pretend to be working when I'm spending time on Resetera. But I don't consider that that bad because 8 hours of work every day that you just don't need to do what you need to do are bull shit.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
19,787
DFW, Texas
I just read the others list and I added things I also do.
I don't think many of these are immoral tbh (bar pirating, eating too much and doing no physical activities)
My main point was that you phrase it in such a way that made it seem like Era as a community considers things like making an average wages or drinking occasionally immoral and ibdont believe thats accurate.

The only way I could see someone condemning either is if it was done recklessly or in excess.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,348
The Netherlands
ah shit you got me, western society really is moral
Are there any moral societies according to you?

There are plenty of immoral things that aren't as severe as the things you listed. You're being incredibly dishonest here.

Most meat eaters I personally know understand their choice is immoral. You should be able to accept you are fallible like the rest of us.
I'm just saying it's not at the severity of those things, which IMO makes it subjective.
 

HeavenlyOne

The Fallen
Nov 30, 2017
803
Your heart
Trust me, when I first heard it, I thought retribution was a far more aggressive term than it is in actuality.
Reading the dictionary definitions right now, and you're absolutely right!

And it’s simple, btw. You *consider* rehabilitation first. You don’t have to choose that path, but it must be considered, weighed and if not pursued, then justified where possible. Obviously there needs to be an aspect of imprisonment in a crime like that, but if you’re depriving the liberty of others, you ought to do all you can to find some way to rectify their behaviour where viable.
I don't disagree with any of this. My issue is solely with the naive fantasy of rehabilitation instead of punishment that is brought up in every online discussion of prison.

If this were true the majority of Westerners would be vegan/vegetarian.
Despite claims to the contrary there is no objective morality. Even if every human that ever existed agreed that x is immoral, it's still just an idea we agree all with, not an objective truth.

There is little difference between:

If you do not NEED the meat, you are putting your taste for meat ahead of the death and/or suffering and eventual death of an animal.

That is inherently immoral, and you should be okay admitting that.


and

If you do not NEED the abortion, you are putting your selfish desires ahead of the death and/or suffering and eventual death of an innocent baby.

That is inherently immoral, and you should be okay admitting that.


Just folks insisting that their moral views are correct and thus every one must admit it. But while telling someone who eats meat that they are immoral is fine here, telling a woman who had an abortion that she is immoral would rightfully see one banned.

Abortion is a controversial issue in society, and while the production of meat is a contentious issue in this age of climate change awareness, the eating of meat isn't controversial at all to the vast majority of humanity.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,519
Brooklyn, NY
Been browsing 4chan since I was 13 years old. 27 now and yet I'm a perfectly sane individual. Though I've been desensitized to gore as a side effect.
I use Uber but don't tip.
I brush my teeth but keep the water running.
I love dogs but hate cats.
 

Jiminy

Avenger
Mar 29, 2018
3,292
Is it? Because they sure don't act like it. People pretty clearly act every day based on a lifetime of influences from their body to their environment, to their own past selves.

If anything, punishment is immoral for one major reason: the person who did the thing isn't the one who suffers the punishment. This is why rehabilitation is, IMO, the only moral approach to "punishing" a wrong.
Of course they're subject to countless external influences. Its what allows our minds to exist in the first place.

That doesn't mean "hard determinism" is a given.

Hard determinism basically says that there's only ONE way for EVERYTHING to pan out, and we're all wrapped up in it. But current quantum research is showing that while our minds are a literally heady cocktail of influences and subjective inputs/outputs, at a nanosecond by nanosecond scale we still can and do make fluctuating, subjective decisions which don't fit into classical physics' predictions (the "hard determinism SINGULAR output case"). Even though our minds exist on a track of past experience and future prediction, our second by second functionality appears to be arbitrary, flexible, unpredictable.

In short, the whole concept of determinism begins to fall apart when you reach the quantum scale. Be that applied to physics or applied to the human mind. As far as we can tell so far, our brains are super quantum machines... thus determinism can't touch them. Even though our decisions are never without context, they can fluctuate or "break" the track set out for them.


If anything, punishment is immoral for one major reason: the person who did the thing isn't the one who suffers the punishment. This is why rehabilitation is, IMO, the only moral approach to "punishing" a wrong.
Yes I completely agree, and this is still true in light of humans having actual volition and not existing on a deterministic railroad.