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UK General Election 12th December 2019 |OT1| Hindsight is 20/19

Streamlined

Member
Sep 16, 2019
158
If you're not disturbed about the anti-Semitism inside labour that speaks more about you than myself I'm afraid
“Disturbed” isn’t the word I’d use. I think it should be tackled and Labour should have higher standards so even the numbers are undoubtedly relatively low considering the huge membership, it should still be treated as a priority issue and stamped out. But I refuse to be blind to the craven way that it being pounced on by opportunists who don’t give a shit about racism, to the point of fabricating stories or willingly circulating said stories.
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,337
Scotland
a great day for all these idiots was a brief moment of self-reflection after grenfell where they were like “oh god maybe we should have been focusing on reporting the years of complaints that the community had about cladding and fire risks instead of fixating wholly on irrelevant inter-party political squabbles and acting like they we’re the end of democracy itself”

then two days later they were back on their bullshit with that completely forgotten.
There's some really good journalists but I question a lot of the reporting on politics. It's reported like it's a fucking football game with no real stakes for millions of people.
 

Spaghetti

Member
Dec 2, 2017
2,586
“Disturbed” isn’t the word I’d use. I think it should be tackled and Labour should have higher standards so even the numbers are undoubtedly relatively low considering the huge membership, it should still be treated as a priority issue and stamped out. But I refuse to be blind to the craven way that it being pounced on by opportunists who don’t give a shit about racism, to the point of fabricating stories or willingly circulating said stories.
Don't worry about him. He's just gone to the Simon21 school of "blindly accuse other people of antisemitism when you feel frustrated or embarrassed".
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,707
Chesire, UK
But this, true or not, is not an isolated anti-Semitism incident with labour
If it's not true, how can it be an incident of antisemitism?
My point was this isn't the only instance of anti-Semitism
If it's not true, how can it be an incident of antisemitism?
If you're not disturbed about the anti-Semitism inside labour that speaks more about you than myself I'm afraid
If it's not true, how can it be an incident of antisemitism?

Honestly, the state of our political discourse is so fucking depressing. The truth doesn't matter. Argument doesn't matter. It's just smear, smear and smear again.

Who cares whether Labour is actually a hotbed of antisemitism or not, let's say they are anyway. Who cares whether Jeremy Corbyn is actually a danger to Jews, let's say he is anyway. If they defend themselves? Well that just proves our point!
 

Calabi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,221
I've been saying this for years. There is a global tendency (I'm not saying it's globally organized) to make potential hard left alternatives look like the devil, especially in powerful western countries like the UK, France, or the US. The likes of Sanders, Corbyn or Melenchon certainly have flaws, but the effort to shit on them constantly has become ridiculous.

I know that not everyone follows the political news of their country, let alone of other countries, but it's obvious now that the rich are shitting their pants at the prospect of real change. I'm not even saying it would necessarily work, but the simple idea of one of these being elected is producing some delicious, terrifying panic modes. They would rather side with authoritarian pro-business regimes or even with fascists.

What's ironic is that most rich people would actually benefit in the long run from happier and healthier workers thanks to redistribution, but they can't see that, they only see short-term finances. I'm amazed that some are still downplaying the class struggle of our time.
The irony is Boris isn't even pro business. Brexit any kind of brexit including his Withdrawal Deal, will screw business's all of them better than anything Corbyn could ever do.
 

Calabi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,221

Semfry

Member
Oct 25, 2017
384
If it's not true, how can it be an incident of antisemitism?


If it's not true, how can it be an incident of antisemitism?


If it's not true, how can it be an incident of antisemitism?


Honestly, the state of our political discourse is so fucking depressing. The truth doesn't matter. Argument doesn't matter. It's just smear, smear and smear again.

Who cares whether Labour is actually a hotbed of antisemitism or not, let's say they are anyway. Who cares whether Jeremy Corbyn is actually a danger to Jews, let's say he is anyway. If they defend themselves? Well that just proves our point!
This sums up my feelings going through that series of posts. If it's fake news (and I will say that's not confirmed yet) then it's not a sign of anything except of the one who made it up being a piece of shit.
 

Flammable D

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,664
If he did it, turf him out on his arse, but if Dan fucking Hodges is coming to Labour's defence on anti semitism, that should tell you something
 

Spaghetti

Member
Dec 2, 2017
2,586
Is this guy a BXP fan or something? There's a tweet where he's asking for evidence that Farage is racist (or is he being sarcastic).
Kevin Schofield is the editor of Politics Home and generally a centrist, hypocrite melt.

Does a lot of "a senior Labour source tells me..." parroting wrecking from people within the Labour Right. Was pretty funny when Tom Watson stood down because it's been long rumoured Watson was his sole source. Guess Wes Streeting is going to have to step his game up.

----------

In other news, People's Vote continues to implode:

 

SwitchedOff

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,725
Basically Boris can announce that he's doing nothing to investigate Islamaphobia in his party and he gets away with it, but Corbyn is clearly anti-Semitic(even though there is no evidence to suggest that he personally is, and Labour are at least doing something about the antisemitism people in their party). But the Conservatives and their party leaders blatant quoted racism that's fine. I think its pretty clear Boris will win the election, it was won years ago similar to the EU. If you put out a simple lie often enough then it becomes the truth. I've had arguments in Discord about how Corbyn is somehow worse than Boris, when I put the evidence before them he just is, I've seen other youtubers say the same.

You cant win against that, the right wing media and social media has successfully demonised Labour and Corbyn, and there is no chance of them suddenly turning that around in a month. I'm betting he would have been one of our best PM's as well.
The right wing media has also of course demonised the EU. They share a lot of responsibility for the UK continuing to go down the plughole due to certain rich people (and right wing media owners) wishing to line their pockets as much as possible.

Many voters are too brainwashed, ignorant and stupid to see what the Tories are doing, meaning that the Tories are going to win this election and the UK is going to sink even further. Perhaps it's time to emigrate from the UK if at all possible.
 

CD_93

Member
Dec 12, 2017
587
If there is a silent pact between the Tories and BXP then we’re staring down the barrel. A Tory majority under Boris Johnson after the last decade would utterly crush me. But, at least it‘s still early doors and there’s still plenty of campaigning in earnest to come.

On a somewhat political point, I got my first ambulance ride to the hospital a few nights ago. Urgent Care was rammed on a Wednesday night and everyone who treated me was from an overseas background.

We have so much worth protecting. I hope we don’t throw it away for Brexit.
 

nature boy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,808
If it's not true, how can it be an incident of antisemitism?


If it's not true, how can it be an incident of antisemitism?


If it's not true, how can it be an incident of antisemitism?


Honestly, the state of our political discourse is so fucking depressing. The truth doesn't matter. Argument doesn't matter. It's just smear, smear and smear again.

Who cares whether Labour is actually a hotbed of antisemitism or not, let's say they are anyway. Who cares whether Jeremy Corbyn is actually a danger to Jews, let's say he is anyway. If they defend themselves? Well that just proves our point!
For the 1000th time, this is not an isolated incident. Are you disputing there's anti-Semitism inside labour?
Political tribalism can't excuse abhorrent behaviour.
I think given the environment inside labour that it probably happened, we'll see if I wrong but I don't think I am.


I wonder how concerned you are about Boris's overt racism, and also the Conservatives Islamaphobia.

Appalling, but I expect that from the Tories. They've always been racists, don't expect me to defend them.
How does that make anti-Semitism inside labour more or less tolerable? Just because the Tories (and lib Dems) are shit doesn't make labour somehow beyond any criticism

You do realize it's possible to find both wrong and perhaps I'm more concerned with labour because it's (much) closer to my political views?

“Disturbed” isn’t the word I’d use. I think it should be tackled and Labour should have higher standards so even the numbers are undoubtedly relatively low considering the huge membership, it should still be treated as a priority issue and stamped out. But I refuse to be blind to the craven way that it being pounced on by opportunists who don’t give a shit about racism, to the point of fabricating stories or willingly circulating said stories.
Corbyn has been leader for over 4 years and the problem I would suggest has only gotten worse
 

Ando

Member
Apr 21, 2018
386
Did she just make this up or are lib dems really going for a flat 1% increase in income tax?
no. it’s their central policy, like in 2017. increase every income tax band by 1p to finance an 11bn increase in mental health funding.

increasing tax on everyone to pay for their spending helps with their primary economic message about how labour and the tories are both risking the economy with dangerous over-spending and only the lib dems are responsible. it’s interesting positioning outflanking the tories from the right on investment tbh.
 

Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,607
You do realize it's possible to find both wrong and perhaps I'm more concerned with labour because it's (much) closer to my political views?
I highly doubt it matters to the folks who brush stuff like that off.

But yes I agree, the reason people in predominantly left-leaning circles criticize Labour more than Tories on racism and whatnot is because the people in those circles aren't Tory voters and won't be. So why should they even waste breath on criticism?

If people want a better Labour, they should stop closing ranks whenever issues like this come up. Reminds me of any Dems who went to bat for Al Franken. Was the timing of his ousting favorable to the GOP? Yes. Does that matter? No.
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,707
Chesire, UK
Are you disputing there's anti-Semitism inside labour?
No. The sad truth is there are bound to be instances of antisemitism inside any organisation with half a million members. The same is true of homophobia, sexism, and any number of other bigotries. Indeed Labour just expelled an MP due to his homophobia.

The fight against antisemitism, like the fight against racism or bigotry in general, will never truly be over because it will never be truly eradicated.


What I do dispute is that the incidence of antisemitism within Labour is anything other than a fraction of that found in society at large, or in other similarly sized organisations. Labour are an anti-racist party and have some of the toughest stances opposing racism to be found in any organisation in the world.
 

Stuart444

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,941

Sixth Form students have accused Boris Johnson of avoiding them, after they were ‘hidden away’ in the common room during his campaign visit to a Nottinghamshire school.

Pupils in year 12 and 13 were reportedly not allowed to leave the common room for 45 minutes due to ‘security reasons’, until the PM was safely off the premises.

The comments have emerged after Mr Johnson visited George Spencer Academy in Stapleford on Friday morning, where he met teachers and took a series of photos with younger pupils during an art class.
More at the link.
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,337
Scotland



More at the link.
Yeah the entire strategy by team Boris even during the conservative leadership election was to hide him away as much as possible. They know there is a high chance of him saying something fucked up or dumb in a real interaction, especially a hostile interaction with real people.
 

null

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,062
For the 1000th time, this is not an isolated incident. Are you disputing there's anti-Semitism inside labour?
Political tribalism can't excuse abhorrent behaviour.
I think given the environment inside labour that it probably happened, we'll see if I wrong but I don't think I am.
So if you think you're right then the story must be true? What are you even talking about anymore?
 

Git

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,599
So flooding again, I wonder if it's gonna have any election ramifications. Maybe they'll be speedy helping for once. Tories aren't gonna admit that shit they actively endorse, e.g. climate change, farming and grouse shooting, are responsible for the constant floods.
 

Huw_Dawson

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,385
London, United Kingdom
Big fan of the new policy on childcare that the LDs are pushing. Scrap the corporation tax rises, funnel £14bn into free childcare for all from 2 years old and free for working households from when the current system's parental leave cuts off at 9 months.

Labour's pledge to re-open Sure Starts is a solid policy too - glad this election is not only about Brexit.
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,337
Scotland
So flooding again, I wonder if it's gonna have any election ramifications. Maybe they'll be speedy helping for once. Tories aren't gonna admit that shit they actively endorse, e.g. climate change, farming and grouse shooting, are responsible for the constant floods.
I wouldn't hold my breath for the press to actually notice the link between conservative policies and shit flood defences.
 

null

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,062
Big fan of the new policy on childcare that the LDs are pushing. Scrap the corporation tax rises, funnel £14bn into free childcare for all from 2 years old and free for working households from when the current system's parental leave cuts off at 9 months.

Labour's pledge to re-open Sure Starts is a solid policy too - glad this election is not only about Brexit.
I'd still like to believe there is enough common ground should there be a need to form an alliance government that it wouldn't immediately collapse and some positive changes could happen. I don't think these policies are that far apart.
 

Git

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,599
I wouldn't hold my breath for the press to actually notice the link between conservative policies and shit flood defences.
I was hoping voters would, but I guess that's even less likely than the media. We had pretty devastating floods here 4 years ago. Quite a lot of businesses at the bottom of town still closed.
 

SMD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,195
Big fan of the new policy on childcare that the LDs are pushing. Scrap the corporation tax rises, funnel £14bn into free childcare for all from 2 years old and free for working households from when the current system's parental leave cuts off at 9 months.

Labour's pledge to re-open Sure Starts is a solid policy too - glad this election is not only about Brexit.
Labour are pledging 30 hours a week free childcare for all kids 2 years old and above as well (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-50353568)
They're also offering full maternity for a year (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/07/mothers-promised-full-year-of-maternity-pay-in-labour-manifesto)

Just thought it'd be more balanced to note that Labour are doing more than just reinvigorating Sure Start.
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,337
Scotland
I wouldn't hold my breath for the press to actually notice that the North exists.
Yeah, very true sadly. Moving some of the BBC to Manchester hasn't seemed to do much of anything.
I was hoping voters would, but I guess that's even less likely than the media. We had pretty devastating floods here 4 years ago. Quite a lot of businesses at the bottom of town still closed.
It's horrible, every year for atleast the last 6 or 7 years maybe longer there have been massive floods in various areas of England. People don't realise how much people, especially less well off people have their lives and livelihoods absolutely destroyed by flooding.

I know some flooding is inevitable especially with climate change etc but that is a reason to increase spending on defences not heavily cut it like has been happening.

Hell, I'd bet the cost to the govt of clean up operations is probably higher than what they saved by cutting spending on flood defences.
 

jelly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,889
Do politicians own shares in insurance companies and such......

Likely they just don't want the investment cost on their books during their term, why spend money on things we need when you can funnel the money into your own pockets via other projects and avenues.

It was kinda crazy seeing the defences when there was some, like they just about held in some places.
 

null

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,062
If there is a silent pact between the Tories and BXP then we’re staring down the barrel. A Tory majority under Boris Johnson after the last decade would utterly crush me. But, at least it‘s still early doors and there’s still plenty of campaigning in earnest to come.

On a somewhat political point, I got my first ambulance ride to the hospital a few nights ago. Urgent Care was rammed on a Wednesday night and everyone who treated me was from an overseas background.

We have so much worth protecting. I hope we don’t throw it away for Brexit.
Seems like the Brexit Party are actually just having a hard time finding candidates and it's a coincidence.

Maybe they were hoping for a pact and didn't plan to fight 600 seats. That takes a lot of time, money and people and they've had to do it all at fairly short notice.

 

Salty_Josh

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,076
no. it’s their central policy, like in 2017. increase every income tax band by 1p to finance an 11bn increase in mental health funding.

increasing tax on everyone to pay for their spending helps with their primary economic message about how labour and the tories are both risking the economy with dangerous over-spending and only the lib dems are responsible. it’s interesting positioning outflanking the tories from the right on investment tbh.
Crazy how when all you hear about is Swinson shitting on Corbyn for nothing, things like this don't get seen. I realised the only policy of the lib dems I actually know of is revoking article 50
 

Simon21

Member
Apr 25, 2018
771
I'd still like to believe there is enough common ground should there be a need to form an alliance government that it wouldn't immediately collapse and some positive changes could happen. I don't think these policies are that far apart.
There definitely is. I've said before that one of the great ironies of the current ill-feeling between the two parties is that their more recent policy positions are a lot closer than some would assume.

The closest thing we currently have as a hint to where the Lib Dem manifesto is going to go is what they're billing their "plan for the future".
 

Spaghetti

Member
Dec 2, 2017
2,586
Moving some of the BBC to Manchester hasn't seemed to do much of anything.
As with a lot of regional initiatives in the media, it's basically a giant sham and the majority of anything and everything actually still happens in London.

I'm trying to remember exactly how this trick worked, but there was a way producers got around regional programming rules by setting up a "production office" in places like Birmingham which were basically just a post address and *maybe* a phone line. Same with adding industry people who lived in the regions as executive producers or consultants, despite having pretty much zero part in creating the programming.
 

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,257
As with a lot of regional initiatives in the media, it's basically a giant sham and the majority of anything and everything actually still happens in London.

I'm trying to remember exactly how this trick worked, but there was a way producers got around regional programming rules by setting up a "production office" in places like Birmingham which were basically just a post address and *maybe* a phone line. Same with adding industry people who lived in the regions as executive producers or consultants, despite having pretty much zero part in creating the programming.
So basically the trick behind Apple somehow being 'based' in Ireland?