• The GiftBot 2.0 Launch Giveaway Extravaganza has come to a close with an astounding 8073 games given away to the community by 696 members, a huge success thanks to you! The gifting now continues with more official prizes in the new Gaming Giveaways |OT|. Leftover Steam codes are also being given away to the PC Gaming Era community.

UK General Election 12th December 2019 |OT1| Hindsight is 20/19

nekkid

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,969
In the event of a Labour-leaning hung parliament, could anyone see the SNP sticking to their indyref demand when the alternative is another election and a potential Con victory?
 

jelly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,889
In the event of a Labour-leaning hung parliament, could anyone see the SNP sticking to their indyref demand when the alternative is another election and a potential Con victory?
Didn't the SNP do that in the 70s?

EDIT - Actually not, they voted down the Labour goverment that was apparently going to lose an election anyway apparently so Thatcher got in a few months earlier likely would have happened if my breif look up is accurate.
 

Ando

Member
Apr 21, 2018
386
labour crashing in leave areas after foisting on the leadership a 2nd referendum policy absolutely despised by leave voters that everyone in the remain establishment bizarrely insisted would actually have labour 20 points ahead. surely not. who could have predicted such a turn.

meanwhile a large crowd of remainers ignore basic facts and pretend like their policy is still to leave anyway.
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,707
Chesire, UK
Can I just say it is mental how FEW polls we've had in this campaign so far.

Normally during an election period you can't move for polls, and we're getting table scraps and stuff from literally weeks ago.
 
Oct 26, 2017
877
The thing is that a successful indyref would surely hinge on Brexit being delivered, so trying to pin that demand on Labour seems fruitless.
Sorry if I wasn't clear when I said I think they have the best interests at heart. I meant that whilst yes, what you say is true, they would have to risk fucking the country (Brexit) in order to get an IndieRef that is not guaranteed to succeed (which could then leave us in an even worse situation), and I don't think they would take that risk.
 

SMD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,195
Can I just say it is mental how FEW polls we've had in this campaign so far.

Normally during an election period you can't move for polls, and we're getting table scraps and stuff from literally weeks ago.
I still think it's not worth worrying about polls for anything other than a baseline right now.
 

jelly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,889
Sorry if I wasn't clear when I said I think they have the best interests at heart. I meant that whilst yes, what you say is true, they would have to risk fucking the country (Brexit) in order to get an IndieRef that is not guaranteed to succeed (which could then leave us in an even worse situation), and I don't think they would take that risk.
Look at it from the other side. Do Labour want power or not, everyone wants power.
 

Simon21

Member
Apr 25, 2018
771
Independence is the reason the SNP exist, and the sole thing that ties everyone in the party together. Sturgeon has been under some pressure from the grassroots for not pushing for it hard enough. They will not drop thay demand.
 

null

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,062
It feels like the SNP are having a conversation with themselves most of the time.

It makes no sense to have a list of demands for Labour because your alternative is the Tories and they'll give you less than nothing.
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,587
It feels like the SNP are having a conversation with themselves most of the time.

It makes no sense to have a list of demands for Labour because your alternative is the Tories and they'll give you less than nothing.
Political parties have to have a list on paper though? I know they won't back down on an Indy Ref, but it's possible that there rest are just for bargaining.
 

jelly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,889
It's just a stance at this point to gain the most votes like they are all doing but lets be honest, who do you think will blink, Labour will not turn their nose up at gaining power over another scottish referendum if a coalition, supply and demand deal is their only route to power, they'll take it. I still don't think Scotland will vote yes next time, I don't think the risk of breaking up the union is that high for Labour to worry about agreeing to it and even if it does happen, I think if Wales follow, maybe Ireland unites but we still work together, it's a nice thought. Also, there is no guarantee SNP are going to turn all of Scotland yellow that allows them to sell the idea of another one so confidently.
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
6,853
It's just a stance at this point to gain the most votes like they are all doing but lets be honest, who do you think will blink, Labour will not turn their nose up at gaining power over another scottish referendum if a coalition, supply and demand deal is their only route to power, they'll take it. I still don't think Scotland will vote yes next time, I don't think the risk of breaking up the union is that high for Labour to worry about agreeing to it and even if it does happen, I think if Wales follow, maybe Ireland unites but we still work together, it's a nice thought. Also, there is no guarantee SNP are going to turn all of Scotland yellow that allows them to sell the idea of another one so confidently.
Seems pretty damn unlikely. Think about it, if Labour goes for the referendum and Scotland goes independent all those anti-tory seats go poof. Would they really risk a temporary control of government for near guaranteed irrelevance long term. I mean even if the scottish don't vote for independence it would be an unpopular policy in the rest of uk.

There's not a single upside for going for a second referendum. In the chance they end reasonably strong in this election if the SNP won't play ball they might well go for another election eventually, regardless the SNP don't have a choice in regards to brexit and neither do the lib dems so in the odd chance this does happen Brexit itself would end up sorted one way or anotheer.
 

DavidDesu

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,031
Glasgow, Scotland
Scotland has given all the mandate it needs for the SNP to hold another referendum. The Tories, and anyone else denying the democratic rights of the citizens of Scotland will only tip it over the edge. This election will be another case of Scotland turning yellow, yet if Tories win in rUK we are apparently going to simply be denied.

I'm trying to picture Jean Claude Juncker or some one from Europe telling the UK government they were not allowed to have the Brexit referendum and the right wing press outrage about that.
 

nekkid

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,969
On Indy Ref? I don't see it.
Well like said above. If Labour said “not against it, but not committing to anything now” (pretty much their stance until this point), would the SNP give up the opportunity for power AND risk a CON government AND make Brexit a certainty? Sounds like they stand to lose a lot more by making indyref2 a red line with Labour.

And ironically forcing indyref2 on Labour is actually making it far less likely to happen.
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,587
Well like said above. If Labour said “not against it, but not committing to anything now” (pretty much their stance until this point), would the SNP give up the opportunity for power AND risk a CON government AND make Brexit a certainty? Sounds like they stand to lose a lot more by making indyref2 a red line with Labour.
I honestly respect JC, so I think that he's being honest about not ruling out an Indy Ref. If I were the leader of the SNP, I'd trust him. That's not saying I'd back down, but I'd back him on the basis that it's something that there would be frank and open discussions about, once he was in power.
I wouldn't say "if you don't agree now, we're not going to support you, or form a coalition" etc.
 

jelly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,889
Some interesting Russia report related news from CNN

London loooooves Russian money, that's why. No doubt they've bought their way in and got people on their side with money, blackmail too. Just like the US too, money, great, it helps them get elected, great. Doesn't matter if they win.
 

DavidDesu

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,031
Glasgow, Scotland
I reckon they would back down, though.
The only way the SNP could possibly back down would be if Brexit looked like it was going to be cancelled and article 50 revoked. That's the only thing that would make an Indyref Yes win very unlikely. As it stands I think by the time we get an Indyref (if we are actually democratically respected) the chances of a Yes vote keep growing. Edit* YOUNG voters are massively pro Yes and even my old Tory voting mum and my once Eurosceptic Tory eldest brother are both voting SNP and Yes from now on.

The sooner the better, the UK is broken and needs to fix itself. Scotland can do so much better.
 
Last edited:

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
6,853
Well like said above. If Labour said “not against it, but not committing to anything now” (pretty much their stance until this point), would the SNP give up the opportunity for power AND risk a CON government AND make Brexit a certainty? Sounds like they stand to lose a lot more by making indyref2 a red line with Labour.

And ironically forcing indyref2 on Labour is actually making it far less likely to happen.
Corbyn has already ruled it out, though this is during an election so that might change,
 
Oct 27, 2017
533
Look at 2017’s polls. It took a good few weeks of campaigning until Labour kept their heads above 30%, while the Tories were frequently in the mid-high 40s. There may be no significant movement, but if there is to be any, it might well take a few weeks to materialise.
 

Gareth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,252
Norn Iron
The only way the SNP could possibly back down would be if Brexit looked like it was going to be cancelled and article 50 revoked. That's the only thing that would make an Indyref Yes win very unlikely. As it stands I think by the time we get an Indyref (if we are actually democratically respected) the chances of a Yes vote keep growing. You get voters are massively pro Yes and even my old Tory voting mum and my once Eurosceptic Tory eldest brother are both voting SNP and Yes from now on.

The sooner the better, the UK is broken and needs to fix itself. Scotland can do so much better.
I'd vote Yes too if I lived in Scotland TBH. I'll probably join the campaign for a united Ireland if this Tory Brexit happens.
 

Git

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,599
Speaking of the circuit, Theresa May, our very own MLK, is now on it. She has described herself as "inspiring".
 

nekkid

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,969
I wish my MP would stand down, but it’s fucking Leadsom, and she’d stand as a Conservative from her deathbed if she had to (and win).
 

Git

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,599
I mean, they’ve literally got the same name. That’s an easy mistake to make regardless of race.
I mean yeah, but only if the accusation was banal and the person saying it wasn't a famous journalist. With the way news/stories disseminate these days, and the sheer number of fake news stories, you'd hope a national journalist for a supposedly left wing newspaper would do at least do some research before labelling a muslim Labour candidate an antisemite.
 

Flammable D

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,666
Please Tories, more honesty gaffes

I need to not be that thing centrists always complain about of yelling at lib dems more than tories

I'm laughing at the libs
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,496
Is there something against a candidate just wiping out all their social media. Just seems like there's never any good that comes from having a visible social media presence. Though that requires self awareness which many candidates seem to lack. Not that the lib dem will amount to anything other than a bit of ridicule for a day
 
Last edited:

nekkid

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,969
I mean yeah, but only if the accusation was banal and the person saying it wasn't a famous journalist. With the way news/stories disseminate these days, and the sheer number of fake news stories, you'd hope a national journalist for a supposedly left wing newspaper would do at least do some research before labelling a muslim Labour candidate an antisemite.
Yeah, “easy mistake” wasn’t really my intent - he should have fact checked better. More like it’s just as easy for them to make his mistake with a white person. Calling them out for mixing up brown people is unfair imo.