The online mode of Smash Ultimate is even more unacceptable 14 months after its release

ZeroCDR

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,064
What even is this?
Can we stop with this bullshit?
From the looks of this thread, there's obviously a problem that many people are experiencing. By all means, complain about it so Nintendo does better next time, or better yet, fixes the current game.

But to deny that some aren't experiencing the issue or else must have "no idea" how it's supposed to feel is a really shitty look.

Of course I know what lag feels like. I've been playing online games since the 90's.
A shitty look is proclaiming Smash online as “flawless” when delay based netcode is inherently flawed. Delay is the name, it literally compromises the responsiveness of your controls at all times even under the absolute best conditions.

If you claim you aren’t experiencing any input delay online, it’s just not true.
 

FreddeGredde

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,160
At least the lag isn't WORSE than it was on Brawl or 4. I can handle the lag, it's still fun with friends.

What really frustrates and annoys me is that you can no longer be 2-3 players on the same console and play online with a friend or two. Add to that how cumbersome it is to change character and settings in-between fights.

Like, they really made the experience worse/unusable compared to what we had on Wii 12 years ago.
 

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,916
The online was so bad I didn't even take advantage of the free week trial of their online service.

It proved to me there's no reason to pay for the online "service" Nintendo thinks is actually worth money.
 

Mesoian

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,380
It's the worst online since Anarchy Reigns.

Its absolutely bottom of the barrel and nintendo will never even attempt to fix it.
 

DatManOvaDer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,489
What even is this?
Can we stop with this bullshit?
From the looks of this thread, there's obviously a problem that many people are experiencing. By all means, complain about it so Nintendo does better next time, or better yet, fixes the current game.

But to deny that some aren't experiencing the issue or else must have "no idea" how it's supposed to feel is a really shitty look.

Of course I know what lag feels like. I've been playing online games since the 90's.
It literally does not matter how good a connection is. Input delay netcode at its best is still bad. Someone saying that their matches are “flawless” doesn’t mean anything when the game uses input delay
 

night814

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,920
Pennsylvania
I suggest adding people in your country and playing with them.. I've medium between offline and playing with randoms.
Even on here there are people more than willing to play with others. My advice to everyone not enjoying it is to stop playing random people online. If you really want to engage with the game engage with the community too.

There's also no doubt that the input delay indeed sucks and it should have rollback.
 

SpaceCrystal

Member
Apr 1, 2019
2,114
I suggest that everyone on here starts messaging Bandai Namco's Twitter page about it, as they're the ones who mostly developed this game.
 

ZeroCDR

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,064
I remember what I posted, thanks.
Just because the word flawless appears in a post doesn’t mean people said what you’re saying they said.
That’s not how reading works.
So when you say 99% of your matches are flawless, you’re not referring to Smash’s online play?

And, even the first result is calling most of their matches flawless. The second result says their matches are 95% flawless. A lot of hyperbole going on.
 
Last edited:

JakeNoseIt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,410
The online is basically the equivalent of not having my television set to game mode. Once you see it, you can never go back. I ONLY play Smash Ultimate online, so I have been able to psych myself out into thinking that's just the game lol
 

MechaX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,508
Man some of y’all have not played this game much offline besides doing random free for all’s or something.

even when a match is playable online, input lag + buffer + online frame delay straight up moves some attacks from “reactable and punishable” to “it’s free fucking real estate.”
 

Civilstrife

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,309
So when you say 99% of your matches are flawless, you’re not referring to Smash’s online play?
Sigh... are we really playing this game?

you said:
A shitty look is proclaiming Smash online as “flawless”
referring, I imagine to my post and others saying that the majority of our matches have played flawlessly and without the game breaking lag that was literally the subject of the OP.

At no point did I “proclaim that Smash Online was flawless.”

If you want to talk about the inherent disadvantages of delay based net code, go for it. But please do not put words in others mouths, or attempt to twist what they said into something they didn’t.
 

MechaX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,508
Sigh... are we really playing this game?

you said:

referring, I imagine to my post and others saying that the majority of our matches have played flawlessly and without the game breaking lag that was literally the subject of the OP.

At no point did I “proclaim that Smash Online was flawless.”

If you want to talk about the inherent disadvantages of delay based net code, go for it. But please do not put words in others mouths, or attempt to twist what they said into something they didn’t.
i.... hope you recognize the inherent problem in saying “99 out of 100 of my matches on Smash Ultimate online ran flawlessly” and then later say “that is not to say that Smash online is flawless” and not actually mean the 1% exception in your initial scenario
 

Civilstrife

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,309
i.... hope you recognize the inherent problem in saying “99 out of 100 of my matches on Smash Ultimate online ran flawlessly” and then later say “that is not to say that Smash online is flawless” and not actually mean the 1% exception in your initial scenario
I actually don’t really understand what you’re trying to say here. Could you elaborate?
 

Giever

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,278
It's bad and that sucks, especially because I'm just not going to be playing it locally with people, so I'm stuck with either single player content or shitty online.

I have no hope it'll ever get better in this or future iterations.
 

ZeroCDR

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,064
Sigh... are we really playing this game?

you said:

referring, I imagine to my post and others saying that the majority of our matches have played flawlessly and without the game breaking lag that was literally the subject of the OP.

At no point did I “proclaim that Smash Online was flawless.”

If you want to talk about the inherent disadvantages of delay based net code, go for it. But please do not put words in others mouths, or attempt to twist what they said into something they didn’t.
It’s disingenuous to claim your post

99% of my matches are flawless.
Is not a proclamation of Smash online being flawless. For 99% of your matches, it’s “flawless.” These are your words, not mine. They are also full of shit.
 

Civilstrife

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,309
It’s disingenuous to claim your post



Is not a proclamation of Smash online being flawless. For 99% of your matches, it’s “flawless.” These are your words, not mine. They are also full of shit.
Jeeeeesus.

"Smash Online is flawless" Is a general platitude, referring to the entirety of the Smash Online experience for every user.
"99% of my matches have been flawless" is a specific statement, with the subject being my matches.

Remember too, that I was referring directly to the game breaking lag described by the OP, which I do not experience in 99% of my matches. Which is an important detail, because you seem to want to talk about delay based netcode, the argument being that 0% of matches anyone has could be described as "flawless" because of the flaws inherent in delay based netcode.
Fair enough, I suppose. You're free to make that argument.

But that still doesn't change the fact that I did not say what you are saying I said.
 

Ocean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,806
But honestly, the lag. The damn lag, it's just too much. I feel like I don't even play the game sometimes.
When Nintendo decided to ship a console without an Ethernet port, I think they made it 100% clear nobody should expect decent online gameplay from anything on that platform.

I use a USB Ethernet dongle for my Switch, but I know most don’t. Online isn’t even worth bothering with.
 

ZeroCDR

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,064
Jeeeeesus.

"Smash Online is flawless" Is a general platitude, referring to the entirety of the Smash Online experience for every user.
"99% of my matches have been flawless" is a specific statement, with the subject being my matches.

Remember too, that I was referring directly to the game breaking lag described by the OP, which I do not experience in 99% of my matches. Which is an important detail, because you seem to want to talk about delay based netcode, the argument being that 0% of matches anyone has could be described as "flawless" because of the flaws inherent in delay based netcode.
Fair enough, I suppose. You're free to make that argument.

But that still doesn't change the fact that I did not say what you are saying I said.
The OP specifically mentions input lag, which is a direct result of the delay based netcode. If you want to clarify that you’re referring to the game slowing to an unplayable crawl, that’s fine, because the OP didn’t. You simply stated what you stated, which objectively is not true either even if you’re actually referring to slideshow fights.
 

Trey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,335
Ultimate is a phenomenal game, and I absolutely agree. The online suite is egregiously bad, bordering on laughable.
 

nopattern

Member
Nov 25, 2017
293
The lack of options is the biggest part for me. I actually rarely have much lag when I play online and thats with wifi.
 

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,533
I suggest that everyone on here starts messaging Bandai Namco's Twitter page about it, as they're the ones who mostly developed this game.
They can't even be bothered to consider doing anything about their own games. And they'll just tell you to go harass Nintendo as it's their game and they fund all development.
 

Kewlmyc

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,023
Another thread about shitty fighting game online, another defense force of people going "delay based netcode isn't bad, works for me :D"

I'm just tired at this point. This is why most Japanese devs are never going to implement this shit into their newer games. Because it works for them :D
 

Decarb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,417
[Nintendo game]'s online mode is unacceptable.

100% expect Animal Crossing to be the next victim.
Tbh online in MK8, ARMS and Mario Tennis has worked nearly flawless for me. But Smash has always been a shitshow 100% of the time even with LAN adapter. I sold the game last month because most people I played locally with had moved on, and the online just continues to be garbage tier.
 

Pfantzypantz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
54
I played wired with a nearby friend (also wired) and it didn't make a difference; the input delay is just very unpleasant.
The game is fun enough to enjoy in spite of that, but once you get into quickplay territory it becomes miserable.
That's not even taking into account the lack of real choice- no I don't want to fight gimmick grinders on 1 stock 1 minute with items or whatever.
 

Hikari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,795
Elysium
every 5 or so matches it lags for me. Other than that it is great. I'm on wi fi too and have a great experience for the most part!
 

ryan13ts

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
582
A Nintendo game that has bad online? I'm truly shocked.

In all seriousness, at this point I'm just exasperated with Nintendo and the overall quality of their online games and service. Of all their games, Smash is one of the better functioning ones (MK8D is the best experience I've had so far), though that should say volumes about the online. It's 2020, there's no excuse that most of their online games have issues with lag/latency or other technical issues related to online. Don't even start me on the lack of features that have been standard for the nearly 20 years on consoles at this point, like voice chat and messaging, although that's more of an overall problem with the pathetic excuse of trash they call "Nintendo Switch Online service".

I really wish they would catch up with the times. They could literally without peer if they took online more seriously like Microsoft and Sony.
 

HiLife

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
11,873
I’d play that game so much more if the online was actually smooth. Such an iconic, high selling game and Nintendo bullshitting when it comes to dedis
 

Neoxon

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,080
Houston, TX
A Nintendo game that has bad online? I'm truly shocked.

In all seriousness, at this point I'm just exasperated with Nintendo and the overall quality of their online games and service. Of all their games, Smash is one of the better functioning ones (MK8D is the best experience I've had so far), though that should say volumes about the online. It's 2020, there's no excuse that most of their online games have issues with lag/latency or other technical issues related to online. Don't even start me on the lack of features that have been standard for the nearly 20 years on consoles at this point, like voice chat and messaging, although that's more of an overall problem with the pathetic excuse of trash they call "Nintendo Switch Online service".

I really wish they would catch up with the times. They could literally without peer if they took online more seriously like Microsoft and Sony.
ARMS actually has pretty decent online.
 

Quad Lasers

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,520
The online in Smash Ultimate is genuinely one of the worst I've ever experienced(despite really liking the game), and that's saying something in a genre where the online is as consistently fucked up as it is in fighting games.

It's one thing to have shit netcode, it's another to have shit netcode where I have to spin a roulette wheel of what kind of match settings I'm gonna get.
 

Magnet_Man

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,499
The thing that annoys me the most about the online isn't the lag.

It's how it ignores your My Music settings.

The song that plays when going online is chosen by using the My Music settings of the person's rules that are used in the match. What's so baffling about this is this wasn't how it was in Brawl or 4 where each player would hear their preferred song on their end, so why is that not the case here? And it freaks me out that I don't see more people talking about it because this should be something that can be easily fixed in a patch.

And then you can't change characters in between games. Like...god. Make a separate mode if you want to take your GSP rank seriously. A "ranked" mode, as it were, instead of this "Preferred Rules" nonsense. I still get games of 1 stock 3 minutes, free-for-alls, 1v1 on giant stages, and even stamina. For Fun and For Glory had their flaws but they were reliable. You knew what you were going to get.

Smash Ultimate is touting itself as having the most amount of content in the series' history but I feel like it's never been more restrictive. I can't control the mode I play, I can't control the music I hear, and I can't choose the character I feel like playing without disconnecting from my current opponent.

Throwing my hat into the "well, MY online experience" anecdote pile, I'm living in the same condo complex I did when 4 came out, I'm using the same Internet provider on the same plan, and I'm used the same hardware for my Internet as I did with my Wii U. 1v1 is fine for the majority of my games but as soon as there are three or more players, the game instantly begins stuttering, whereas in 4 I played For Glory teams like 85% of my time with the game and had minimal issues. Hell, I had...alright...consistency in Brawl when doing teams, and I am dead serious. It might be because Switch is so much more popular so there's more players that just hop on without optimizing their connection settings or it might be because Ultimate has worse netcode or it might be because the Switch is worse at handling online, but playing Ultimate online with the lag, the lack of control over the music that plays, the lack of freedom over characters I can use and the lack of control over the modes I play, make it possibly the most unpleasant experience I've had with Smash.
 

Soul Lab

Member
Nov 17, 2017
895
What even is this?
Can we stop with this bullshit?
From the looks of this thread, there's obviously a problem that many people are experiencing. By all means, complain about it so Nintendo does better next time, or better yet, fixes the current game.

But to deny that some aren't experiencing the issue or else must have "no idea" how it's supposed to feel is a really shitty look.

Of course I know what lag feels like. I've been playing online games since the 90's.
1) The way the netcode works, you will always have a noticeable delay
2) I‘m not aware of any high level player or even competitive player who thinks the online plays fine, for this very reason.
3) It‘s cool that you‘re satisfied with the online experience. I‘m happy for you but that doesn‘t make the online good (even under perfect conditions)
 

Adulfzen

Member
Oct 29, 2017
677
it's funny people keep mentionning it's Nintendo's fault when it's bandai namco developing the game... (also Arms, a game developed internally at Nintendo had a better matchmaking system and better working online from my experience).

doesn't take away from other network issues the Nintendo Switch has as a whole (no messaging, the invite system still doesn't seem to work for most games, voice chat locked to a fucking phone app) but for Smash itself, unless Bamco has a big change of heart in the future they're unlikely to change shit.

And Nintendo is probably unlikely to use another dev considering how well Smash Ultimate sold. (also didn't see anyone mentionning Sakurai in those discussions, is he the one making those design decisions for how Ultimate works ? I wish we just had a regular ranked mode with a 1v1 or 2v2 options and also better lobbies).
 

Mzen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
369
Portugal
I think a lot of these posts proclaiming the online to be good, great or flawless might be putting a bigger priority on how the game looks vs how the game feels to play, or maybe play the online mode exclusively and that's just how the game is supposed to feel like for them.

A bit like the folks who can't see the difference between 30fps and 60fps and swear they don't feel or see any difference, I have to wonder what qualifies as a flawless online Smash match for the people in this thread.

I think a better question would be: "How does online play feel compared to offline?". Because if, for some here, a good match is determined only by it not having interruptions or disconnections, then I can certainly why some people would assume that their online experience is fantastic, but that's the wrong way of measuring online play quality. A flawless match should be one that feels exactly the same as playing with someone next to you, with the same responsiveness and no input lag. I would argue that such an experience is very hard to achieve with delay-based netcode, even if you are living in Japan.

Speaking of which, any Japanese players mind chiming in on the situation? It would be interesting to also know about their general experiences regarding Smash Ultimate online.
 
Last edited:

Hyun Sai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,916
Judging by the sales of Granblue Fantasy (and Smash anyway), we're in for another round of Delay based japanese fighters next gen, with only Capcom doing his rollback implementation.

And remember it took them 3 tries to get it right (SFxT, SFV, MVCI), so good luck for the companies trying this for the first time without western help.

But yeah, I'm starting to think many players don't have any idea how it feels to play offline without input delay, so the shitty netcode we got in those japanese fighters is basically their default. Depressing.
 

Rommaz

Member
Nov 27, 2017
2,784
Kitwe, Zambia.
Another thread about shitty fighting game online, another defense force of people going "delay based netcode isn't bad, works for me :D"

I'm just tired at this point. This is why most Japanese devs are never going to implement this shit into their newer games. Because it works for them :D
It's actually really annoying and reminds me why I'll never get rollback in the games I love the most:(
 

Soul Lab

Member
Nov 17, 2017
895
Another thread about shitty fighting game online, another defense force of people going "delay based netcode isn't bad, works for me :D"

I'm just tired at this point. This is why most Japanese devs are never going to implement this shit into their newer games. Because it works for them :D
man it‘s really tiresome
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,572
I wish I could play this game more but the online is unbearably bad. It hurts cause I really vibe with everything else.
 

NotLiquid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,887
Another thread about shitty fighting game online, another defense force of people going "delay based netcode isn't bad, works for me :D"

I'm just tired at this point. This is why most Japanese devs are never going to implement this shit into their newer games. Because it works for them :D
If someone opens up a thread purely centered around relaying their own user experience playing the game, don't be surprised when you get swathes of people relaying their own that might not line up. Even if I was self conceited enough to think that the netcode is perfect and shouldn't change so other people can have a better experience, I still can't say that's a hill I'd die on in a pretty casual topic.
 

Mark1

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,592
The online is trash. Especially after Smash 4 did it better.

Once I reached Elite Smash with characters I stop going into that mode because it is easy to lose that status because of lag or the bizarre rule system used. I do not understand how on occasion once you reach Elite Smash it goes from competitive play to a mad 4 player item based free-for-all?

If go online it's only through Arenas now, and even then it needs more work, like the queuing system. It's not fun when you lose your place in the queue when changing fighter, stage or even music.

But damn I do love this game regardless of these issues, still play it most days. So much to do, and I enjoy getting better with the wide range of characters offered (especially with my previously requested choices like Sonic, Banjo-Kazooie, Ridley, etc)
 

Wamb0wneD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,454
Yup. I was banking on this being the Smash to succeed Melee for me. I played Melee for 3k+ hours, and was super excited for Ultimate, especially after Joker got announced.

I cant even do basic combos with him (or with sheik for that matter) because the lag is so fucking bad. Shorthop arials in downwards trajectory? Fucking forget it. Simply not possible.
Combined with the insane input buffering, it's like half the time its more of a surprise whether the move comes out or not.

And why they removed Smash4s mathchmaking system Ill never get. They took measures other devs would take when their playerbase is shrinking/queue times get too long.


Its abysmal.