The online mode of Smash Ultimate is even more unacceptable 14 months after its release

HylianSeven

Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,329
I just wonder like, if they ever actually implemented rollback netcode, would the people saying it’s perfect today start complaining that their buttons are now working exactly when they pressed them?
My knowledge of rollback netcode is limited, but I would think the most answer is most likely no.

Those that think it's consistently terrible, what do you think of other fighting games that don't have rollback? Like Guilty Gear, BlazBlue, etc.
 

neroxyr

Member
Nov 14, 2018
76
Dropped playing the online mode. The lag is horrendous and when you win/loose a match is a wtf!! moment. I even changed internet provider but nothing. There are other games with better online experience. Nintendo has to step up their online for tht upcoming generation. It's unacceptable even with the NSO suscription we thought it'll have better online infrastructure but still nothing
 

Greywaren

Member
Jul 16, 2019
1,968
I've had times when it worked like a charm, then it was completely impossible to play a decent match for days in a row. It's weird.

They really should work on their netcode more. Not just Smash, basically every Nintendo game.
 

Denman

Member
Apr 21, 2018
3,764
I havn't had terrible problems really, I can usually get a good match 70% of the time.

However, the way the online works doesn't really make me want to play.

I remember playing Destiny on Ps4, and it was so easy to see a friend come online, invite them to a party chat, invite them to a game, and bam, I'm playing online and talking to a group of old friends, having a great time.

An experience like this is not possible on Nintendo platforms without a coordinated effort and skype/discord.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,351
Canada
I probably get maybe 2 or 3 great matches out of 10, while the rest are a laggy mess and some become a PowerPoint presentation. Going forward there is no excuse to implement rollback into your game (stares at Japanese fighting game developers refusing to change).
 

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,429
My knowledge of rollback netcode is limited, but I would think the most answer is most likely no.

Those that think it's consistently terrible, what do you think of other fighting games that don't have rollback? Like Guilty Gear, BlazBlue, etc.
What usually occurs in delay-based games (including Smash), is an increase in input delay. I've played 500+ hours of DBFZ, 700+ hours of SFIV, 130+ hours of Tekken 7, 100+ hours of SCVI etc. and I'm currently playing GBVS. It's usually the same. You press a button, it takes longer than usual to register. That's usually the worst that happens - you get a connection so poor that your inputs are so delayed it's like fighting underwater. On top of that, you might get the odd occurrence of slow down, hitches, and freezes.

In my limited time with Smash, I found it to be largely the same but definitely more laggy more often than the others. Does the game have any filters? If not, this is probably why people tend to get worse connections in Smash. And having 4 players certainly doesn't help (though ARMS seemed to handle it well enough).
 

Giga Man

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,766
What kind of netcode does Rivals of Aether use? I've played a decent amount of it online on Steam, and I've had no stuttering or freezing issues. I've had a few disconnects, but those were likely on my end. It runs very smoothly.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
16,463
I'd say out of 50 matches, 4-5 have noticeable stretches of buffering, and 1-2 are rough all the way through. A lot of times though, it just has to wait it out and after 10-15 seconds it goes back to normal.

It's annoying but not enough to stop me from playing. Took a break for a while but the last couple of weeks I've played every day. It's pretty lousy for a paid service, but the family plan means I save costs at least.
 

Kouriozan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,812
They should match WiFi users with eachother because it's plaguing other games too and that's a damn shame.
I stopped playing Mario Maker 2 once Fire Emblem dropped and don't want to go back to this

 

Phil me in

Member
Nov 22, 2018
1,008
I bought a wii u specially to play smash 4 online.

75% of the games I played were lag fests, I even bought the usb Ethernet adapter Which barely helped.

please tell me in smash ultimate you can play stock games ffa against 3 others that isn’t 1v1.
 

Papercuts

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,152
I really don't get how they keep managing to make Smash's online terrible while they always do a great job with Mario Kart.
I played hundreds of hours of MK8 and could spot a lot of things it does to compensate for lag. Things like "ghost" hits where you see someone spin out from a shell that hit them but still go full speed because they didn't actually get hit, but the items still explode. Items breaking off of nothing and weird things like that. Still, it just works a lot better in a racer to not tend to notice things like that. MK is full of nonsense as it is, so it works as one of their better online games just due to how fun it is.

Fighting games are where issues REALLY show up, especially in delay based netcodes as the entire gamefeel is in the trash. Trying to play a quick snappy character like Joker or Sheik against someone lagging is miserable, it takes something you already know (playing that character offline) and just makes it not feel right anymore. One of the reasons I tend to go towards big grapplers in games is somewhat due to ingrained netcode compensation. Which is...weird to think about.

The cherry on top with Smash/Nintendo stuff in general is that the general overhead UI is so goddamn bad that you need outside sources to get together. The old GAF lobbies in MK8 were pretty much done via stalking people on the friends list and joining them midmatch due to not being able to invite, and if I play a friend in a Smash lobby I'm actually on my PS4 or XB1 in a party talking to them. This is obviously separate from netcode but is just beyond frustrating to me in 2020 to see someone so fucking far behind everything we know in modern gaming, and to actually charge for this garbage.
 

NotLiquid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,816
I rarely get that. My main grip is not the stuttering like in the video but the huge delay between the time when you press a button and when the game displays my decision
Funny thing is, the times Ultimate online acts up on me it's usually the inverse. I feel like I find laggy games more than I do games with notably bad input delay. I reckon the delay for me is usually around the 3-5 range on most good days which I can usually live with, though I do play a character with pretty low startup and lag on attacks, and only one "frame perfect" combo.

Smash actually has a system that blocks you out from quickplay in the event that you're on an unstable connection though given the amount of bad connections people still run into it still seems too lenient which I reckon is a consequence of most players having to be on wi-fi; the only times I've been able to trigger it are if I wake up my Switch from sleep and immediately try jumping into online.
 

Ramsay

Member
Jul 2, 2019
776
Australia
It's horrendous, and it's the fatal flaw of Smash Ultimate - the single-player content is underwhelming, and the online multiplayer is completely undermined by how poor Nintendo's online is. This creates a situation where the only way you can get a good experience is through local multiplayer - which is what most players will be playing with the least.
 

ZeroCDR

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,037
My knowledge of rollback netcode is limited, but I would think the most answer is most likely no.

Those that think it's consistently terrible, what do you think of other fighting games that don't have rollback? Like Guilty Gear, BlazBlue, etc.
I’m being facetious with my post, I’d love to blow some minds with rollback Smash. If it’s “perfect” now they’ll hopefully realize what they’ve been missing. Or maybe they really just like compensating for buttons coming out late (or not at all).

but to answer your question, they’re generally “playable” but plagued with varying degrees of input lag. Inconsistent and delayed controls is a nightmare for fighters no matter how slight.
 

NotLiquid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,816
I’m being facetious with my post, I’d love to blow some minds with rollback Smash. If it’s “perfect” now they’ll hopefully realize what they’ve been missing. Or maybe they really just like compensating for buttons coming out late (or not at all).

but to answer your question, they’re generally “playable” but plagued with varying degrees of input lag. Inconsistent and delayed controls is a nightmare for fighters no matter how slight.
If rollback was possible for Smash (specifically good rollback; Street Fighter V on launch was one of the most miserable online experiences of my life though I dunno if it's gotten better) then I'd honestly take it. I can't speak for whether the improvements on average would be marginal or substantial for me personally but even in the event that it's only the former, if it's an improvement that would improve it for a vast majority of people then it definitely should be applied.

My personal question in regards to rollback isn't so much whether it'd make the game better but whether or not it'd even be realistically achievable. Smash is a game that already juggles so many moving parts between random items, up to four characters on screen, and stages with varying mass amounts of hazards. I'm no programmer, but from what I understand about rollback that seems like it'd be a way more difficult undertaking than building a rollback netcode for a more straightforward 2D fighter. If Smash were exclusively 1v1, no items, hazard-less stages, then I'd definitely believe in the possibility sooner.
 

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,429
If rollback was possible for Smash (specifically good rollback; Street Fighter V on launch was one of the most miserable online experiences of my life though I dunno if it's gotten better) then I'd honestly take it. I can't speak for whether the improvements on average would be marginal or substantial for me personally but even in the event that it's only the former, if it's an improvement that would improve it for a vast majority of people then it definitely should be applied.

My personal question in regards to rollback isn't so much whether it'd make the game better but whether or not it'd even be realistically achievable. Smash is a game that already juggles so many moving parts between random items, up to four characters on screen, and stages with varying mass amounts of hazards. I'm no programmer, but from what I understand about rollback that seems like it'd be a way more difficult undertaking than building a rollback netcode for a 2D fighter. If Smash were exclusively 1v1, no items, hazard-less stages, then I'd definitely believe in the possibility sooner.
Brawlhalla is similar in that it's a 4 player platform fighter. It uses rollback with no issues.

Also I believe someone knowledgeable about netcode, possibly Adam Keits at Iron Galaxy, has said it should not be a problem.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,113
My personal question in regards to rollback isn't so much whether it'd make the game better but whether or not it'd even be realistically achievable. Smash is a game that already juggles so many moving parts between random items, up to four characters on screen, and stages with varying mass amounts of hazards. I'm no programmer, but from what I understand about rollback that seems like it'd be a way more difficult undertaking than building a rollback netcode for a more straightforward 2D fighter. If Smash were exclusively 1v1, no items, hazard-less stages, then I'd definitely believe in the possibility sooner.
4 player Brawlhalla works fine using rollback (server based) with weapons and bombs being thrown around. The stages in Smash get more complex and theres sometimes more happening, but I don't think its significantly more to where it wouldn't work.
 

Cronogear

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,086
I fucking despise everything about Smash Ultimate's online.

Not only is it barely functional from a lag perspective, but I prefer 4 player matches with no items, and I also like playing Byleth.

Unfortunately, my Byleth is in Elite Smash. And every time I play Byleth, I only get 1v1 matches, which I hate. Every. Single. Time. So I can't play Byleth unless I lose a bunch on purpose and knock myself out of Elite Smash.

And even then, there's no guarantee that you'll get something even remotely close to what you want. I just played a match with my Samus (who's not in Elite Smash) and I got matched in a 1v1 match against a Banjo with items on high. And of course, it was absolute PowerPoint.

I don't know how Nintendo could come up with something worse than Smash 4's online, but they sure did it.
 

Zem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,863
United Kingdom
I haven't played the Switch version, mainly because the Wii U version had the most insane lag I've ever seen in a game. Everything was in slow motion. Even the dreamcast versions of Q3 and UT99 online worked way better
 

MisterLuffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
294
I played quick play at the month of launch and never went back to it again. Sometimes I played arena, but it's not as fun as playing offline. I had so much fun playing offline with my brothers and cousins than playing with them online. I wish they would fix the netcode.
 

Tofer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,641
Laggiest game I’ve played since Xbox/ps2 era and the primary reason I did not renew my online sub. Nintendo should be ashamed
 

PlayBee

Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,823
I have great internet and bought a recommended ethernet adapter and my online experience with Smash has been abysmal. Rollback netcode pls.
 

Putosaure

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,473
France
Yeah I was like "come on, it's their big fighting game they can't fuck it up" but yes they can! And with MM2 too by the way. To me MK8D is the last game with a decent online.
 

sleepnaught

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,110
All I wanted from Smash online was 2 player vs CPU with my brother. Apparently, Nintendo/Smash dev's are so incredibly incompetent with regards to online play, that a basic ass feature like this was deemed impossible for them. I've seldom played the game since it launched because it's boring playing it alone, but a ton of fun with friends and family. I just dont have time to commit to being decent at online pvp and dont feel like getting destroyed when I do choose to play. Just seems crazy that in 2020, Nintendo fails so miserably at the very most basic online functions in its games. Functions you could find on PC literally decades ago.
 

Soul Lab

Member
Nov 17, 2017
882
I play on Ethernet, I put all odds on my side and it still is far from the offline experience. Maybe I can feel the difference because I didn't play online for so long.

Guys if you play with wifi and don't have any trouble I will have a hard time believing you honestly.
everyone who says „flawless“ has no idea how offline feels tbh.
ultimate online is shit.
 
Dec 21, 2017
11,586
I honestly lucked out with my experience regarding Smash Ultimates online. I'd say 1 out of every 20 matches I get a laggy mess, which is totally acceptable for me. I mainly play the Tournament mode nowadays. Smashes online has gotten better and better as the games have gone on. The way most people in this thread talk about Ultimate was how I experienced Brawls online.
 

tenderbrew

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,796
Yah i'm not here to just claim the opposite but I usually only have lag in like 1/30 matches. I'm hard wired. It's usually pretty good.

No idea.
 

Civilstrife

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,307
everyone who says „flawless“ has no idea how offline feels tbh.
ultimate online is shit.
What even is this?
Can we stop with this bullshit?
From the looks of this thread, there's obviously a problem that many people are experiencing. By all means, complain about it so Nintendo does better next time, or better yet, fixes the current game.

But to deny that some aren't experiencing the issue or else must have "no idea" how it's supposed to feel is a really shitty look.

Of course I know what lag feels like. I've been playing online games since the 90's.
 

Scottoest

Member
Feb 4, 2020
129
Just make a partnership with Microsoft. Joint-announce a new classic Banjo & Kazooie game being developed internally by Nintendo for Switch and Xbox Series X, xCloud support for the Switch, and Nintendo's online service being replaced with Xbox Live, but with their same drip feed of NES and SNES games as part of it.

Is that too much to ask?

...

...I'm being told that it is.
 

trugs26

Member
Jan 6, 2018
1,641
I'm on wifi, and play 1v1 only, and I don't have bad lag. I'm in a country not known for amazing internet either.
 

MontlyCure

Member
Oct 27, 2017
643
FL
I didn't play it online much, but the majority of the games I did play were in slow motion. I had good internet and used a lan adapter too. It was pretty disappointing to say the least.
 

VinylCassette64

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
1,273
I've legit have matches where the game lagged in a way where it gave my opponent(s) the advantage and cost me the game, other times it came uncomfortably close to that happening. Needless to say I wasn't happy with either occurrences of it happening. Maybe absence makes the heart grow fonder because it's definitely happened back during online matches I had in Smash 4, but I personally feel like it was less frequent in that game than it was here.

I've also gotten the game almost always telling me that I can't do any Quickplays or Tourneys due to having an unstable connection if I've played online matches for at least more than two hours (if it wasn't for online lobbies, I'd effectively be barred from playing online completely), regardless if other people are using the internet or not. A design choice that Smash Bros. Wii U and Brawl never did.

Ragequittting an online match if you're losing or you've lost also seems trivial in this game because I've had countless online Quickplay matches which I won (or at least got second place) but I didn't get any GSP because someone checked out (mainly with 3P / 4P matches). At this point I honestly don't know if you even get any penalties for frequently leaving in the middle of a match (like how Smash 4 always barred your console from going online for ten minutes if you powered the console off).

I can only somewhat understand leaving during the middle of a match in the context of being knocked out during a 3P/4P match with a long time limit; so if you were the first/second player to be KO'd in such a match, all you can do is just sit there and watch the other players duke it out. Although in that case, there should be some sort of option to quit without having to shut off your console.

Ironically enough, for the first month or so, most of my online matches were absolutely fine and I didn't have to put up with any of this.

Still pissed we have to pay for online now and this nonsense only accentuates that.

EDIT: Before I forget--the only thing that I hate more than the lag is the matchmaking in Quickplay. Not so much the lack of options, but the way I get paired up with people who seem to get the exact specifications of stages they want so they can just cheese matches / get easy GSP by having the rules set entirely in their favor (playstyle approach, stage choices, items, etc.). It's like a lottery where you can get dealt with the absolute worst matchup for your character and your style of play. It's just barely enough for me to absolutely swear off Quickplay entirely and strictly go for Tourneys/online lobbies, b/c at least you can see the rules that are already set.
 
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Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,429
Just make a partnership with Microsoft. Joint-announce a new classic Banjo & Kazooie game being developed internally by Nintendo for Switch and Xbox Series X, xCloud support for the Switch, and Nintendo's online service being replaced with Xbox Live, but with their same drip feed of NES and SNES games as part of it.

Is that too much to ask?

...

...I'm being told that it is.
None of that fixes the netcode of the game.
isnt lag an issue with your internet? genuine question cause i dont have the game
Could be your internet, could be your opponent's internet. Good netcode helps negate this (along with a stable connection i.e. wired). Smash does not have good netcode.