• The GiftBot 2.0 Launch Giveaway Extravaganza has come to a close with an astounding 8073 games given away to the community by 696 members, a huge success thanks to you! The gifting now continues with more official prizes in the new Gaming Giveaways |OT|. Leftover Steam codes are also being given away to the PC Gaming Era community.

The Dragon Ball Z 30th Anniversary collector’s edition Set announced 350$, Nov 2019, 4:3 aspect ratio [UPDATE: Cropped, heavy use of DVNR]

Master Of Illusion

Alt Account
Banned
Mar 18, 2019
856
Now that more shots are out, this is nowhere near the trainwreck it could've been. Some shots will get close to using a full film frame, some will be cropped down a lot further depending on film damage and whatnot.

The noise reduction looks God awful for the early series shots and destroys any depth in the image. However, those Cell saga shots don't look too bad... they look like they went through roughly the same amount of DNR as Kai (though while the raw grain is a little too much, I wish the grain wasn't completely scrubbed clean either).
 

dan2026

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,093
What an utter mess of a release.
All that detail and grain destroyed by DNR.

Nobody should buy this. Tell Funimation yoh are not happy. Dragon Ball deservrs better.
 

Temperance

Member
Oct 25, 2017
698
This is a real shame. Once In a Lifetime™ yeah right.

There's a reason the Ultimate Hunter Edition of Predator was universally panned until the 4K release came out.
Yup that 4K release has all the glorious film grain left intact.

... Yu Yu Hakusho are the go to examples of quality HD television anime restorations, with YYH probably edging ahead due to those 1 or 2 Eva episodes that look horrible due to missing tapes.
Couldn't agree more, Yu Yu looks phenomenal. Funimation tends to do a lot of sales of their shows on the Microsoft Store, rebought the DUB of Yu Yu that covered through the Dark Tournament.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
7,504
the fact that they're even treating one of the biggest media properties on the planet, fresh off the new movie grossing $100 million at the box office, like some kind of niche product that needs to be crowdfunded and they only plan to sell 6000 of these tells me that, indeed, they are idiots

even this garbage would sell far more than 6000 units if they just released it normally. look at the season sets and blu ray season sets, after all.

this whole thing is a fucking debacle
If this were a normal release, I'd think a lot of people would sit and wait for significant discounts before buying them (again). This way, there's some artificial demand and urgency to buy the set at full price, and they make out like bandits, AND can still release a normal set later (without the Grandista, which is only slightly remolded from an existing model, and the artbook and whatever).

I mean, I tend to believe if they remastered the Dragon Boxes, there's enough pent up demand and fear of missing out on a print run that those would sell like hotcakes, but again they can always do that the next time around.
 

scamander

Member
Oct 27, 2017
343
Too bad the English dub sucks so much, though. I need the German one. Also, when will they finally release the original Dragon Ball series on Blu-Ray?

EDIT: Just saw the screenshot comparisons. What the fuck? Have they learned nothing?
 
Last edited:

Roge_NES

Member
Feb 18, 2018
318
Annoying this isn't available in the UK.
I highly doubt it, I think we were lucky enough to get Dragon Ball remastered on DVD.


Those comparison shots, damn.

A couple blu ray discs with the Dragon Box Standard Video Transfers would be better than this garbage.
 
Last edited:

Tsunamo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,156


So we could've had the nice grainy pre-DNR'd release and both camps would've been pleased (casual audiences and the ones are more in touch with this stuff)
How depressing. I really dislike that Funimation thinks that's what fans want too, they've forced that type of remastering on us for years.

It honestly amazes me how we've got through stuff like this around three times now and Funimation still doesn't get it at all.
 

Iloelemen

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,323
I'm surprised this never happened over there. I Blu-Ray not a popular format in Japan?

Actually, a lot of old Tv anime have been HD remastered and released on Blu-ray. Shows like Yu Yu Hakusho, Ranma 1/2, Gundam, Evangelion, Utena, Cowboy Bebop, Magic Knight Rayearth, Cardcaptor Sakura have all been released on Blu-ray and they all look stunning.

The exception to this though are Toei Tv anime. Whereas other classics get full 1080p restorations and remasters, Toei anime only only receive Vaseline Upscaling of 480p footage. Sailor Moon, slam dunk, saint saiya all suffer from this. And as you know, Dragonball is a Toei anime so......
(to be fair, toei have Hd remasters of their movies, including the Dragonball movies all of which have been remastered and released in Blu-Ray)
 

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,093
Actually, Sagadego17, now we know for sure this release will be trash, shouldn't you edit the OP?

People might get fooled into preordering if they only read that
 

Kyuuji

Banned
Nov 8, 2017
7,948
Why, looks like it'll be an absolute trash set
I haven't seen about 90% of Dragonball Z so have no affinity, memory of, or love for the original versions as I haven't been exposed to them much. Those I have watched when younger were, for the most part, in Japanese as well - so barely understood much bar 'fighting'.

That isn't to say anyone is wrong in their view of how bad this is relative to it, just that if I see no major issue in the comparisons that I doubt it would hinder my enjoyment of it. At most the cropping looks irritating but again, without the original frame of reference I wonder how much it would be an issue for me when watching fresh.

I was just interested in a 'one and done' purchase where I could get all of the episodes of the series to watch, with any bonuses that might be included.

Which is all futile as this doesn't appear to be coming to the UK and as far as I know, all we have available in HD are the separate series boxes that I'd need to buy individually?
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
7,504
I haven't seen about 90% of Dragonball Z so have no affinity, memory of, or love for the original versions as I haven't been exposed to them much. Those I have watched when younger were, for the most part, in Japanese as well - so barely understood much bar 'fighting'.

That isn't to say anyone is wrong in their view of how bad this is relative to it, just that if I see no major issue in the comparisons that I doubt it would hinder my enjoyment of it. At most the cropping looks irritating but again, without the original frame of reference I wonder how much it would be an issue for me when watching fresh.

I was just interested in a 'one and done' purchase where I could get all of the episodes of the series to watch, with any bonuses that might be included.

Which is all futile as this doesn't appear to be coming to the UK and as far as I know, all we have available in HD are the separate series boxes that I'd need to buy individually?
But if you're not a big fan of Dragon Ball and don't care about cropping/just want to watch the show, I'm pretty sure you can get any previously released version besides the rare Dragon Boxes for much cheaper than this set.
 

Kyuuji

Banned
Nov 8, 2017
7,948
But if you're not a big fan of Dragon Ball and don't care about cropping/just want to watch the show, I'm pretty sure you can get any previously released version besides the rare Dragon Boxes for much cheaper than this set.
I'd rather pay more for something altogether in a set, if I'm ignorant to such a thing already out and available in the UK I'd love a link!
 

Master Of Illusion

Alt Account
Banned
Mar 18, 2019
856
Huh, it looks like it really is a case by case basis in terms of cropping, because there are some shots of this that actually show more footage than either the Dragon Box or Kai:

Dragon Box:


Kai:


30th Anniversary Set:
 

SeroTyler

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,974
The more I think about the screencaps of the raw film the more upset I get. Even for a 3rd generation or whatever copy it just looks great, maybe even better than the Dragon Boxes and they're just sitting there messing with it over and over.
 

Lynd

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,265
They really just need to not touch it, straight transfer and if have to, crop shots to miss damage if they don't want to fix it.

At this point and how successful Funi have been over the years, you'd think they would be able to negotiate better film scans as well..
 

hikarutilmitt

Member
Dec 16, 2017
3,264
Actually, a lot of old Tv anime have been HD remastered and released on Blu-ray. Shows like Yu Yu Hakusho, Ranma 1/2, Gundam, Evangelion, Utena, Cowboy Bebop, Magic Knight Rayearth, Cardcaptor Sakura have all been released on Blu-ray and they all look stunning.

The exception to this though are Toei Tv anime. Whereas other classics get full 1080p restorations and remasters, Toei anime only only receive Vaseline Upscaling of 480p footage. Sailor Moon, slam dunk, saint saiya all suffer from this. And as you know, Dragonball is a Toei anime so......
(to be fair, toei have Hd remasters of their movies, including the Dragonball movies all of which have been remastered and released in Blu-Ray)
A common theme with those, admittedly better handled, BD releases like YYH and MKR is that they had Japanese remasters from the cells (or negatives when not available), which is why they look so clean but not DNRed from previous releases. I absolutely love the MKR set even though it shows even more how low the budget for the show was at the time.

DBZ, AFAIK, doesn't have an HD master in Japan to use, so Funi is having to do it themselves and... this is the result. If Toei would get their sources together and maybe make one we might not have this issue or could, at the least, import them.
 

Iloelemen

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,323
A common theme with those, admittedly better handled, BD releases like YYH and MKR is that they had Japanese remasters from the cells (or negatives when not available), which is why they look so clean but not DNRed from previous releases. I absolutely love the MKR set even though it shows even more how low the budget for the show was at the time.

DBZ, AFAIK, doesn't have an HD master in Japan to use, so Funi is having to do it themselves and... this is the result. If Toei would get their sources together and maybe make one we might not have this issue or could, at the least, import them.
That's the thing though, Toei doesn't want to. They'd rather upscale 480p footage.
 

Bjomesphat

Member
Nov 5, 2017
456
sir_crocodile Slaythe Sagadego17

I disagree with editorializing the thread. What might be bad for some could be good or acceptable for others. The OP should just show the information that we have available. You didn't even post the statement from Funimation where they explained their process of remastering the series.

If what they say about the cropping is true, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. As shown above, we might get some cropping a little tighter, and some might be a little loose, and some might be a necessity to crop out unwanted film elements. We're really not going to know completely until the set is released.

As for the DNR, we have no idea what level they're using. For one, all of the footage we've seen is compressed Youtube videos. The Frieza example in the OP has grain in the remastered image. Just because there's less grain doesn't automatically make it worse.

No one is also mentioning the color correction that seems to be superior to every other release.

Again, just put the information we know in the op, and any comparisons made. No reason to editorialize.

These shots of Gohan are definitely better in the remastered. There's still grain, it's just a finer grain, unlike the current blu ray releases that smear everything out. If that's what it looks like from Youtube screen caps, it's going to look way better on an uncompressed blu ray.

Old:


Remastered:
 

Slaythe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,830
sir_crocodile Slaythe Sagadego17

I disagree with editorializing the thread. What might be bad for some could be good or acceptable for others. The OP should just show the information that we have available. You didn't even post the statement from Funimation where they explained their process of remastering the series.

If what they say about the cropping is true, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. As shown above, we might get some cropping a little tighter, and some might be a little loose, and some might be a necessity to crop out unwanted film elements. We're really not going to know completely until the set is released.

As for the DNR, we have no idea what level they're using. For one, all of the footage we've seen is compressed Youtube videos. The Frieza example in the OP has grain in the remastered image. Just because there's less grain doesn't automatically make it worse.

No one is also mentioning the color correction that seems to be superior to every other release.

Again, just put the information we know in the op, and any comparisons made. No reason to editorialize.

These shots of Gohan are definitely better in the remastered. There's still grain, it's just a finer grain, unlike the current blu ray releases that smear everything out. If that's what it looks like from Youtube screen caps, it's going to look way better on an uncompressed blu ray.

Old:


Remastered:
No.

Black levels are fucked, lots of detailed lost (look at the floor and the top of the wall...)...

Yeah but that image is cropped as well. Why
They have to crop because the scan has rounded edges.

This gohan shot is at least cropped in an okay manner unlike some of the worst examples we've seen so far.
 

Tremagus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
156
El Paso
I'm a huge DB fan but nor someone beholden to absolute perfection but after seeing all the fuss that these are not like the Level Sets I'm going to hold off until we get a perfect release.
 

-shadow-

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,087
Yeah but that image is cropped as well. Why
You can clearly see the rounded corners, which I highly doubt was ever meant to see. It's just part of the format, but cropping the slightest to get rid of the corners is normal. I will give it through, they cropped more than needed:



(light is RAW scan, normal is crop with least lost information, dark is their remaster)

Edit: Out of curiosity, does the original negatives still exist?
 
Last edited:

Bjomesphat

Member
Nov 5, 2017
456
No.

Black levels are fucked, lots of detailed lost (look at the floor and the top of the wall...)...
Black levels may or may not be an issue, I'd like to see the final blu ray. But it's not like there's any detail lost in the blacks.

As for the details in the floor and wall, nah, there's no detail lost. They even retained the fine texture on the computer that gets lost with heavy film grain.

 

Bjomesphat

Member
Nov 5, 2017
456
honestly the DNVR is much more egregious than the cropping.
Look, I'm someone that won't even entertain the idea of the current DBZ blu rays, both regular and Kai. I only watch the level sets and the dragon boxes, but what they're showing here isn't anywhere close to the DNR used on the current blu rays. DNR should be used to remove unintentional film grain while retaining the fine texture of film. I'm not necessarily tied to the idea that DBZ needs to have the heavy grain as the level sets, as some of the shots shown here look pretty good. But we're never going to know the full quality until we actually see blu ray captures. Trying to analyze film grain from an online source is a waste of time.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,530
I guess I'll need to see more examples but yeah even in that Gohan shot the cropping is a bit too aggressive. I am part of the problem in that I bought the boxed wide-screen crops on blu but I never thought they'd bother with 4:3 versions after abandoning the legend sets. Gonna keep an eye out for more comparisons
 

andymcc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,893
Columbus, OH
Look, I'm someone that won't even entertain the idea of the current DBZ blu rays, both regular and Kai. I only watch the level sets and the dragon boxes, but what they're showing here isn't anywhere close to the DNR used on the current blu rays. DNR should be used to remove unintentional film grain while retaining the fine texture of film. I'm not necessarily tied to the idea that DBZ needs to have the heavy grain as the level sets, as some of the shots shown here look pretty good. But we're never going to know the full quality until we actually see blu ray captures. Trying to analyze film grain from an online source is a waste of time.
Yeah, it does look better than the current blu-rays-- no question. I think the issue still lays with the fact that Funimation has a reputation with how they handle blu-ray releases. Even if the image of the final product does look better, do you think we're gonna get next episode previews?
 

VDenter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,655
Yeah, it does look better than the current blu-rays-- no question. I think the issue still lays with the fact that Funimation has a reputation with how they handle blu-ray releases. Even if the image of the final product does look better, do you think we're gonna get next episode previews?
I seriously doubt this set will have them. The Level Sets and the Season Sets didn't either, i doubt Funimation has those. It's possible that they received them from Toie but considering how on the cheap this entire release is, i don't think they went through the trouble to include them. Original title cards and the Original Broadcast Audio are also probably a pipe dream at this point.

Personally i think this set barely looks better than the Blu Rays. It's only saving grace is that it's not 16:9 this time but this series shouldn't have been 16:9 ever.They put the lowest amount of effort in this set and the result shows.

It kills me that the Level Sets weren't ever completed. They had flaws but those flaws are pretty minuscule compared to this set.

Edit: Out of curiosity, does the original negatives still exist?
Toie should still have them. They probobaly put them back in cold storage after they were done using them for the Dragon Box remaster.

The hypothetical perfect HD remaster for this series would have to come from Toie.
 
Last edited:

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
7,504
You can clearly see the rounded corners, which I highly doubt was ever meant to see. It's just part of the format, but cropping the slightest to get rid of the corners is normal. I will give it through, they cropped more than needed:



(light is RAW scan, normal is crop with least lost information, dark is their remaster)

Edit: Out of curiosity, does the original negatives still exist?
I assume their crop keeps a 4:3 ratio (though I didn't measure or anything). I mean the height of your crop and their crop is basically the same. They could crop less but the ratio would change from shot to shot which would be horrid. As is they say they basically hand cropped a ton.
 

-shadow-

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,087
Neither are exactly 4:3, their crop seems to be 1.35:1 and the brighter one is 1.4:1. There's still some that can be cropped from the brighter one, but Funimation cropped more than needed in this case. I'm always unsure what exactly is up with all these remasters. I'm just hoping a master negative remaster can happen some day if it still exists.
 

Bjomesphat

Member
Nov 5, 2017
456
Not sure why all of the screenshot comparisons have their resolution cut in half, but here they are at full resolution with plenty of fine grain retained. Make sure you zoom in. I dunno guys, I think I'm going to take the plunge. I'll just make sure to not open it until I see final impressions. I can always return an unopened product. Honestly, I don't think it's going to get better than this. They're not going to do another release with more grain added then they're already keeping. And personally, I'll take the higher resolution with less grain, then the low res Dragon Boxes with weird coloring.









Edit: So Sagadego17 are you going to update the OP with the full resolution screens that show actual grain detail? Remove the heavy DNR / smearing verbiage? And add the Funimation post that explains their cropping method?
 
Last edited:

VDenter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,655
Wow, I don't think I've ever seen him being this mad.

Understandable tho.
Can't blame him. Funimation keeps doing this over and over again.

This set is basically the Orange Bricks in HD but in 4:3. (cropped) Everybody is long tired of this shit.

And just out of fairness, I've taken the full resolution images of both the raw and "remastered" and compared them at a closer detail.

Sure the raw has more grain, but it's still a blurry mess.
The Raw ones look much better. It's not over-saturated and the detail isn't smeared.