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The Dragon Ball Z 30th Anniversary collector’s edition Set announced 350$, Nov 2019, 4:3 aspect ratio [UPDATE: Cropped, heavy use of DVNR]

VDenter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,655
It's Dragon Ball of course it will.

All you can really do is hope the footage isn't final and they get enough backlash to actually try this time.
Well thankfully it seems to have slowed down now and while this will almost certainly get funded, i hope it doesn't reach anywhere near the supposed 6000 limit. I'm sure Funi will consider that a great success, if it does.
 

yuhr33

Member
May 19, 2018
1,161
Ugh. I ordered this without reading this thread.

They cannot seriously be planning on cropping the already cropped 16:9 image, right? I mean that’s crazy.

UGH.
 

yuhr33

Member
May 19, 2018
1,161
Did they say this is the final version? All the stills say “Artwork not final”, perhaps the footage isn’t finalized as well?

I can’t imagine they’d screw something like this so badly. I’m going to have a little bit of faith.
 

Mendinso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,630
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/YPYGNNNX

You get a bit more of the top and bottom of the frame... but it's still cropped.

You have to try to put together a release this poorly.
Yeah, essentially the cropping is significantly more than what the Level sets have given us previous. It's 4x3 still, but I'd argue that you might get more with the currently 16x9 crop that's out there right now (as the trade off is more in favor of the 16x9 crop versus this 4x3 version). Like, that's how zoomed in the 4x3 image is on this version.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
7,504
Did they say this is the final version? All the stills say “Artwork not final”, perhaps the footage isn’t finalized as well?

I can’t imagine they’d screw something like this so badly. I’m going to have a little bit of faith.
You would think that they'd be monitoring reaction to their announcement and address some of the concerns immediately because, you know, people are pledging a lot of money to preorder these. You know, something along the lines of "don't worry, this was just something we put together quickly, we didn't really crop it like this." But to my knowledge they've said nothing.
 

yuhr33

Member
May 19, 2018
1,161
You would think that they'd be monitoring reaction to their announcement and address some of the concerns immediately because, you know, people are pledging a lot of money to preorder these. You know, something along the lines of "don't worry, this was just something we put together quickly, we didn't really crop it like this." But to my knowledge they've said nothing.
I’d assume the same. Maybe it’s coming? A short clip of the final version would be greatly appreciated since I’m gonna cancel my order if they stay mum about this.
 

Anth0ny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,124
"hey everyone we need your help funding this thing

here's a bunch of TERRIBLE footage not representative of the final product"

I can't imagine that's the case :(
 

Corky

Alt account
Banned
Dec 5, 2018
2,479
Did they say this is the final version? All the stills say “Artwork not final”, perhaps the footage isn’t finalized as well?

I can’t imagine they’d screw something like this so badly. I’m going to have a little bit of faith.
Why would they use bad footage and not make it clear the final thing will be better?
 

Anth0ny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,124
Just stumbled upon this golden quote directly from Funimation when marketing the blu ray season sets from 5 years ago:

For this Blu-ray release of Dragon Ball Z, we are creating a version that is fit for the modern era. A release that takes advantage of the 1080p, widescreen televisions and powerful Blu-ray players most people own today. A bolder, more vibrant Dragon Ball that both old and new fans can appreciate. In order to accomplish this, we had to change the remastering and restoration approach that we took with the Level Sets in 2011.

First off, going with widescreen over standard definition was a must.
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/12/31/funimation-responds-to-kanzenshuu-community-blu-ray-questions/



5 years later, 4:3, fire emojis and all, is the main marketing point for this "best way possible ultimate edition"

these fucking jokers are something else
 

-Le Monde-

Avenger
Dec 8, 2017
2,021
Unwatchable according to some fans:
Orange Bricks
Blu-ray release

Best way to watch:
Yellow Bricks(dragon box set)

Where does this new release fit?
 

yuhr33

Member
May 19, 2018
1,161
I’m sold! So funny that they posted that video today after just last night I was saying how the initial video is probably not finalized. Ha!
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,957
Why do their RAW screens actually look better than the anniversary version? Seriously Funimation give me that instead of the so called remaster. It has more picture on the side for one and it doesn't look like a wax museum.

Say it once with me Funi and for everyone in the back.

Grain is part of the picture.
 

yuhr33

Member
May 19, 2018
1,161
I think they are doing the best that they can (I read through their blog post). I’m highly appreciative of this set, it’s about as good as it can be given the age of the film as they stated. It looks crisp, as I believe it should. When you draw something you don’t inherently draw grain—you draw a clean picture, which is what they’ve restored here.

Frankly, this is impressive.
 

VDenter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,655
It's pretty amazing that they aren't comparing this to the Level Sets and the Dragon Boxes. I guess if they did, everybody would realize how terrible these new sets look.

On the plus side the colors look about 3% better than in the previous set.

The image still looks smeared.
 
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Sagadego17

Sagadego17

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,887
I think they are doing the best that they can (I read through their blog post). I’m highly appreciative of this set, it’s about as good as it can be given the age of the film as they stated. It looks crisp, as I believe it should. When you draw something you don’t inherently draw grain—you draw a clean picture, which is what they’ve restored here.

Frankly, this is impressive.
No no no that's frigging wrong. Grain is supposed to be part of the show. That's how it's done with older movies on Blu Ray and shows. Removing the grain ruins it
 

yuhr33

Member
May 19, 2018
1,161
No no no that's frigging wrong. Grain is supposed to be part of the show. That's how it's done with older movies on Blu Ray and shows. Removing the grain ruins it
It’s one of those agree to disagree things. When it comes to live-action films, I’m 100% expecting to see grain—a clean image wouldn’t look right.

However, with animation, I’d prefer it to look clean. Animators don’t draw in grain, that’s the effect of printing it on film. Having it restored like this is closer to the artists’ original intent, IMO.
 
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Sagadego17

Sagadego17

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,887
It’s one of those agree to disagree things. When it comes to live-action films, I’m 100% expecting to see grain—a clean image wouldn’t look right.

However, with animation, I’d prefer it to look clean. Animators don’t draw in grain, that’s the effect of printing it on film. Having it restored like this is closer to the artists’ original intent, IMO.
Sorry then your wrong then.
 

andymcc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,893
Columbus, OH
It’s one of those agree to disagree things. When it comes to live-action films, I’m 100% expecting to see grain—a clean image wouldn’t look right.

However, with animation, I’d prefer it to look clean. Animators don’t draw in grain, that’s the effect of printing it on film. Having it restored like this is closer to the artists’ original intent, IMO.
the method in which they "remove grain" also tends to heavily effect the line art too.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,957
It’s one of those agree to disagree things. When it comes to live-action films, I’m 100% expecting to see grain—a clean image wouldn’t look right.

However, with animation, I’d prefer it to look clean. Animators don’t draw in grain, that’s the effect of printing it on film. Having it restored like this is closer to the artists’ original intent, IMO.
Dragon Ball Z was a show that was mostly used on 16mm film, which is naturally grainy and when you poorly apply an automated process like DNR, you're taking out the texture and messing up the line work. At no point in Dragon Ball's history has it ever looked like a smudgy blurry water color painting until Funimation got their hands on it.

An optimal release should strive to present the show as it originally aired and not doing a revision that makes the actual product look worse. There's a reason the Ultimate Hunter Edition of Predator was universally panned until the 4K release came out.
 
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AlexFlame116

Member
Nov 17, 2017
16,252
Utah
Man I wish I had enough money to buy the Dragon Boxes.....

I'm poor but I want to buy something for DBZ. I might just go with all the DBZ Kai Blu-ray sets.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
7,504
I don't get why they can't get better source material that extends to all four sides. They can't just use the Dragon Box video?
 

Anth0ny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,124
the raw images look a million times better than the actual release


these guys cannot be fucking serious with this shit
 

SeroTyler

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,974
Wow this came out long, never doing something like this on mobile again lmao

Although the cropping is thankfully nowhere near as bad as initially reported, the DNR and color correction are rough! I understand DBZ is a what got a ton of people into Shonen, or anime, or maybe superheroes in general, but all the grain smoothing, widescreen cropping(which to their credit they are avoiding even after parroting how 16:9 was a necessity for probably longer a decade now), and super saturated color correction to make it look like a modern show is just so disrespectful.

However, with animation, I’d prefer it to look clean. Animators don’t draw in grain, that’s the effect of printing it on film. Having it restored like this is closer to the artists’ original intent, IMO.
Although I personally love film grain to an almost fetishistic degree, animation included, I do understand why some people prefer a clean look for animation. If anime studios were clairvoyant and kept and preserved all that original cells, in betweens, etc and they wanted to go through the effort of rescanning the entire series on clean digital with all the original detail and color, I'd say go nuts. Because you are right, an all digital, grainless production like Your Name just looks absolutely breathtaking on a level that's only rivaled by an Akira level of quality. But the fact is, with old animation like this, the original cells are simply gone, all that's left is the film, which just cannot be degrained without quality loss, which affects animation the worst due to all the sharp line work.
Just look at the cracks in the ship on those screen caps, they look like they just rubbed Vaseline all over the film, none of the creators wanted it to look like that.

To this day I have no idea why Funi continues to do this with, and only with to the best of my knowledge AFAIK, DBZ. Other popular shows like Yu Yu Hakusho, even the original DB and GT were all presented faithfully, even if from a lower quality tape than the Dragon Box masters. It's telling they're not comparing these to the Boxes at all in fact, it's night and day, especially when at one point they were making the Level sets that where honestly pretty damn close to being comparable. I'm surprised they didn't just license the boxes again if they wanted to market to the hardcores without any of this drama. I'm sure they could have actually looked better than the original boxes with Blu-ray encoding and compression, oh well...

I still think Evangelion and Yu Yu Hakusho are the go to examples of quality HD television anime restorations, with YYH probably edging ahead due to those 1 or 2 Eva episodes that look horrible due to missing tapes.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
7,957
The biggest joke here is that the video only compares it with the previous botched Blu-Ray release instead of the Level sets or the Dragon Boxes.

It shows how much faith they have in their own "remaster".
 

Anth0ny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,124
The biggest joke here is that the video only compares it with the previous botched Blu-Rayrelease instead of the Level sets or the Dragon Boxes.

It shows how much faith they have in their own "remaster".
it's classic funimation

they've been doing this shit since 2007. picking and choosing their spots. just making themselves look like complete idiots through stupid ass comparisons that don't actually work in their favor and getting called out immediately for it. since... it's the hardcore fans actually following this shit. no idea who they think they're fooling.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
7,504
it's classic funimation

they've been doing this shit since 2007. picking and choosing their spots. just making themselves look like complete idiots through stupid ass comparisons that don't actually work in their favor and getting called out immediately for it. since... it's the hardcore fans actually following this shit. no idea who they think they're fooling.
They are going to easily hit their minimum, and probably go up to their max 6000 as well. And all of those will be full price sales directly from them. And then in like five years they can do it again. I wouldn't exactly call that being complete idiots (at least not on the Funimation side).
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,217
After those Cowboy Bebop sets struggling to hit 1k, I am really saddened to see how well this is doing.
 
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Anth0ny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,124
They are going to easily hit their minimum, and probably go up to their max 6000 as well. And all of those will be full price sales directly from them. And then in like five years they can do it again. I wouldn't exactly call that being complete idiots (at least not on the Funimation side).
the fact that they're even treating one of the biggest media properties on the planet, fresh off the new movie grossing $100 million at the box office, like some kind of niche product that needs to be crowdfunded and they only plan to sell 6000 of these tells me that, indeed, they are idiots

even this garbage would sell far more than 6000 units if they just released it normally. look at the season sets and blu ray season sets, after all.

this whole thing is a fucking debacle
 

VDenter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,655
It's really a sad state of affairs when all the "Before" images look better than the ones from this set, on their website.
 

yuhr33

Member
May 19, 2018
1,161
Although I personally love film grain to an almost fetishistic degree, animation included, I do understand why some people prefer a clean look for animation. If anime studios were clairvoyant and kept and preserved all that original cells, in betweens, etc and they wanted to go through the effort of rescanning the entire series on clean digital with all the original detail and color, I'd say go nuts. Because you are right, an all digital, grainless production like Your Name just looks absolutely breathtaking on a level that's only rivaled by an Akira level of quality. But the fact is, with old animation like this, the original cells are simply gone, all that's left is the film, which just cannot be degrained without quality loss, which affects animation the worst due to all the sharp line work.
Thanks for the insight. I appreciate your thoughtful, measured response.

I’d also like to add that while I don’t disagree with you, judging by their blog post, I think they’re doing what they can. Part of their aesthetic choice is removing the film grain which comes at some sacrifice as you detailed, but I think I’d be happy with this set considering how badly butchered the previous 16:9 release was. I’ll take anything as close to 4:3 as I can get, honestly.

I guess I don’t mind the loss of grain in favor of a cleaner picture, to each their own, I guess.
 

Moebius

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,944
This isn't the same great quality as the level sets but it sure is better than the bluray sets. In another 10 years when they give the level treatment to the series then I'll pick those up as well.

So they did say that the reason it needs to be cropped is because the corners are curved. Why was this not an issue with the level sets? Wouldn't they have the same problem there?
 
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