Star Trek: Picard - Season 1 |OT| Re-ENGAGE!

Effect

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,840
Seven as a bounty hunter is like the most boring and pretty out of character but ok
I really don't think that can be said. Significantly more time has passed between now and Voyager then the entire time we saw her in Voyager. We had what 4 years of Seven on Voyager. It's now 20+ years later. Nothing can be out of character for her now. She has decades of experiences behind her now.
 

Lmwanderer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
59
Binghamton NY
I keep wondering if any of the mind transfer tech had anything to do with what was left by Ira Graves back in TNG. If it did, that would be a fitting lineage to the Soong technological lineage.
 

chrominance

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,975
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Boy, what a way to fumble an ending. It was surprisingly lousy even given the low expectations. The show took the most predictable and pat way out of the conflict they set up, and there's so much handwaving of plot issues that it's almost like Chabon and company didn't really give a shit about the whole reason Picard leaves the vineyard in the first place. It turns out:

  • yes, the super advanced AI civilization DOES exist, and they ARE basically Reapers, and no there is no answer to why they need to be explicitly called upon by some random garden-variety settlement of desperate synths in order to annihilate every space-faring organic civilization in the universe
  • no, Picard turns out not to have had any sort of plan at all
  • Starfleet does a huge 180 and sends an enormous fleet of ships to protect a planet because Picard said they should, and also oops our bad no more synth ban because reasons??!?
  • the Romulans JUST DECIDE TO LEAVE? FUCKING WHY
  • not really related, but: don't give me ten minutes of people crying over Picard because you know that I know that you're going to revive him somehow, why even bother playing that card, what a goddamned predictable stupid waste of time

Fucking I don't even know, man. And why does the crew even continue to exist beyond the end of the season? What are they supposed to even be DOING at this point?

I think I need to sit with this for a bit, but right now I feel like any goodwill I had toward the show built up over the last few episodes is completely gone. What a goddamned disappointment.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,388
  • Starfleet does a huge 180 and sends an enormous fleet of ships to protect a planet because Picard said they should, and also oops our bad no more synth ban because reasons??!?
    [*]the Romulans JUST DECIDE TO LEAVE? FUCKING WHY
Technically we're allowed spoilers after the episode drop, but replying in spoilers anyway to match the use of spoiler tags:

Everything else you say is totally fair criticism. However, these two points are either dealt with in the show (the first one) or completely rational behaviour (the second one).

Starfleet does indeed do a huge 180, but we knew that was coming since the beginning of episode 8, when Picard contacted Clancy, laid out what he had discovered, and she begrudgingly acknowledged that he'd been correct and agreed to send him help. She also reinstates his commission, although it's easy to miss that this happened because it was in the context of telling him to shut the fuck up.

The Romulans deciding to leave is the only sensible course of action for them. The entire reason they're there is to stop the uber-synth invasion. Well, mission accomplished. Not in the way that they might have expected, but they got what they came for. They might have doubts about whether they wanted to leave a colony of synths alive for the time being, but they'd likely have stronger doubts about whether they wanted to get blown into a billion pieces by the Federation.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,555
I guess none of the writers ever played SOMA. This show is a complete disaster. I disliked Discovery but its worst episode is basically The Inner Light compared to this trainwreck of a series. Absolutely godawful in every way except production values.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,865
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Boy, what a way to fumble an ending. It was surprisingly lousy even given the low expectations. The show took the most predictable and pat way out of the conflict they set up, and there's so much handwaving of plot issues that it's almost like Chabon and company didn't really give a shit about the whole reason Picard leaves the vineyard in the first place. It turns out:

  • yes, the super advanced AI civilization DOES exist, and they ARE basically Reapers, and no there is no answer to why they need to be explicitly called upon by some random garden-variety settlement of desperate synths in order to annihilate every space-faring organic civilization in the universe
  • no, Picard turns out not to have had any sort of plan at all
  • Starfleet does a huge 180 and sends an enormous fleet of ships to protect a planet because Picard said they should, and also oops our bad no more synth ban because reasons??!?
  • the Romulans JUST DECIDE TO LEAVE? FUCKING WHY
  • not really related, but: don't give me ten minutes of people crying over Picard because you know that I know that you're going to revive him somehow, why even bother playing that card, what a goddamned predictable stupid waste of time

Fucking I don't even know, man. And why does the crew even continue to exist beyond the end of the season? What are they supposed to even be DOING at this point?

I think I need to sit with this for a bit, but right now I feel like any goodwill I had toward the show built up over the last few episodes is completely gone. What a goddamned disappointment.
Fuck if I know.
 

chrominance

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,975
Oh, and

Technically we're allowed spoilers after the episode drop, but replying in spoilers anyway to match the use of spoiler tags:

Everything else you say is totally fair criticism. However, these two points are either dealt with in the show (the first one) or completely rational behaviour (the second one).

Starfleet does indeed do a huge 180, but we knew that was coming since the beginning of episode 8, when Picard contacted Clancy, laid out what he had discovered, and she begrudgingly acknowledged that he'd been correct and agreed to send him help. She also reinstates his commission, although it's easy to miss that this happened because it was in the context of telling him to shut the fuck up.

The Romulans deciding to leave is the only sensible course of action for them. The entire reason they're there is to stop the uber-synth invasion. Well, mission accomplished. Not in the way that they might have expected, but they got what they came for. They might have doubts about whether they wanted to leave a colony of synths alive for the time being, but they'd likely have stronger doubts about whether they wanted to get blown into a billion pieces by the Federation.
"Send some help" is one thing, sending an enormous fleet of your top-of-the-line flagships is quite another thing altogether. I'm willing to believe that's a small fraction of Starfleet's firepower, but that still seems huge to me. And Picard had contacted Clancy about potential first contact with a new synthetic civilization that's being attacked by a secretive Romulan sect. He didn't mention anything about the Reapers coming to devour all organic life, because he didn't even know about the true nature of the admonition at the time (though I suppose it's possible he did manage to tell someone about it in one of the transmissions to Starfleet after finding the Soong androids).

As for the Romulans, literally their whole reason for existence is to wipe out synthetic life because the risks to organic life are too great. And we're supposed to believe they'd willingly turn tail because one of the synths decided "okay I guess I'll shut this thing down"? The only way I can believe this to be true is if the Zhat Vash sent their entire fleet to that planet and couldn't afford to risk being completely wiped out, which frankly seems ridiculously short-sighted to me for exactly this reason: intervention by an equally strong or stronger organic civilization would leave you with zero alternatives to stave off the apocalypse.

As it is, by retreating, they've left the door open. Soji could wake up tomorrow, put the beacon back together, and let the monsters in anyway. If I were Zhat Vash, with my innate distrust for synthetic life, I would never let that happen. I would throw every ship at the goddamned planet to ensure it never did, and if 200 ships fall to Federation phasers, ship #201 can still prevent the end of all organic life. It makes no sense.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,865
Oh, and



"Send some help" is one thing, sending an enormous fleet of your top-of-the-line flagships is quite another thing altogether. I'm willing to believe that's a small fraction of Starfleet's firepower, but that still seems huge to me. And Picard had contacted Clancy about potential first contact with a new synthetic civilization that's being attacked by a secretive Romulan sect. He didn't mention anything about the Reapers coming to devour all organic life, because he didn't even know about the true nature of the admonition at the time (though I suppose it's possible he did manage to tell someone about it in one of the transmissions to Starfleet after finding the Soong androids).

As for the Romulans, literally their whole reason for existence is to wipe out synthetic life because the risks to organic life are too great. And we're supposed to believe they'd willingly turn tail because one of the synths decided "okay I guess I'll shut this thing down"? The only way I can believe this to be true is if the Zhat Vash sent their entire fleet to that planet and couldn't afford to risk being completely wiped out, which frankly seems ridiculously short-sighted to me for exactly this reason: intervention by an equally strong or stronger organic civilization would leave you with zero alternatives to stave off the apocalypse.

As it is, by retreating, they've left the door open. Soji could wake up tomorrow, put the beacon back together, and let the monsters in anyway. If I were Zhat Vash, with my innate distrust for synthetic life, I would never let that happen. I would throw every ship at the goddamned planet to ensure it never did, and if 200 ships fall to Federation phasers, ship #201 can still prevent the end of all organic life. It makes no sense.
Yep.

As I said, what Soji did A) proves that Synths should be feared and B) was accomplished. She sent out the beacon signal. The Reapers should know where they are and that synths want help. Great, they don't get to go through the wormhole shortcut, but they can still come through regular warp travel. The galaxy is fucked.
 

GungHo

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,506
They also had that dumb episode where everyone evolved into pseudo-animals and spider beasts and shit, then they magically turned back human with “dna repair” magic.
And then there's Paris and Janeway's salamander kids still on some damn planet somewhere and Crusher's ghost Hitachi. None of this stuff bears strong scrutiny.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,388
"Send some help" is one thing, sending an enormous fleet of your top-of-the-line flagships is quite another thing altogether. I'm willing to believe that's a small fraction of Starfleet's firepower, but that still seems huge to me. And Picard had contacted Clancy about potential first contact with a new synthetic civilization that's being attacked by a secretive Romulan sect. He didn't mention anything about the Reapers coming to devour all organic life, because he didn't even know about the true nature of the admonition at the time (though I suppose it's possible he did manage to tell someone about it in one of the transmissions to Starfleet after finding the Soong androids).

As for the Romulans, literally their whole reason for existence is to wipe out synthetic life because the risks to organic life are too great. And we're supposed to believe they'd willingly turn tail because one of the synths decided "okay I guess I'll shut this thing down"? The only way I can believe this to be true is if the Zhat Vash sent their entire fleet to that planet and couldn't afford to risk being completely wiped out, which frankly seems ridiculously short-sighted to me for exactly this reason: intervention by an equally strong or stronger organic civilization would leave you with zero alternatives to stave off the apocalypse.

As it is, by retreating, they've left the door open. Soji could wake up tomorrow, put the beacon back together, and let the monsters in anyway. If I were Zhat Vash, with my innate distrust for synthetic life, I would never let that happen. I would throw every ship at the goddamned planet to ensure it never did, and if 200 ships fall to Federation phasers, ship #201 can still prevent the end of all organic life. It makes no sense.
Picard contacted Clancy about first contact with the synths in episode 9, but she had agreed to send help earlier, in episode 8. That scene started with her saying "that was one hell of a report" (or very similar), meaning she's briefed on everything Picard knew about the Zhat Vash at that time. The ships she sent aren't there to combat the uber-synths or Reapers or whatever we call them, they were there to stop the Romulans.

The Zhat Vash are nominally a secret organisation, so we shouldn't expect them to have multiple huge fleets lying around, ready to warp into a suicide mission on their instant command. How many true believers can realistically be on those ships? We saw that the the lead-up to viewing the admonition is difficult (candidates can drop out, like Narek did), the viewing of the admonition is ceremonial and done in small numbers (so there can't realistically be millions of Romulans who've seen it) and seeing it has like an 80% chance of causing mental ruination. If only a small number of Romulans on those ships were truly Zhat Vash, how might they take an order to destroy themselves in a battle that they can't see the point of?

Let's say you're right though. Oh tells them they need to do it, they follow orders, the vast majority of the fleet are destroyed but ship #201 gets through and blows the synths away. The Zhat Vash achieve their goal. Except: now there is a state of war between the Federation and the remnants of the Romulan Star Empire. The Federation appear to have crushing technological and logistical superiority and a fully functional economy not hampered by the destruction of any key planets. The outcome does not appear to be in any doubt - the Federation would win that war and disband the Zhat Vash forever. For a society with a goal that requires them to exist far into the future, that's a total loss.
 

ascii42

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,509
Uniformity in ships makes more sense and not less. It made zero sense that ships from TMP era were fighting the war in DS9 - in fact the only way fans made any sense of it is by assuming Starfleet had so few ships that they needed to pull the older ones back into service.
It does seem a bit strange. Then again, the B-52s in service will be 90 years old or close to it at their current target retirement in 2045.
 

h1nch

Member
Dec 12, 2017
1,194
I had a lot of problems with this season, but I loved the ending. It retroactively makes Data's death in Nemesis far easier to stomach for me, and that alone allows me to forgive many of the issues.

Sign me up for a season 2 of Picard, Rios, Agnes, Seven, Raffi, and Soji.

Y'all haters can kindly see yourself off this silly as shit bandwagon lol
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,388
It retroactively makes Data's death in Nemesis far easier to stomach for me, and that alone allows me to forgive many of the issues.
I'm undecided on this. On one hand, it does give Data a better sense of closure. On the other hand....what's he actually been doing? Has he been stuck in a simulation for ages doing nothing, with no way to contact anyone other than Soong and maybe the synths? If so, that's kind of sad.
 
Jan 29, 2018
2,492
*shrug* I liked it a lot. Overall I think the series was good, not great, but I think the finale was solid.

Mixed on the android body thing but it could've been handled a lot goofier. The final conversation with Data was really well done.

Was kinda hoping to see the Enterprise E at the end but oh well.
 

Wrexis

Member
Nov 4, 2017
662
I'm undecided on this. On one hand, it does give Data a better sense of closure. On the other hand....what's he actually been doing? Has he been stuck in a simulation for ages doing nothing, with no way to contact anyone other than Soong and maybe the synths? If so, that's kind of sad.
Yes! Why didn't they put Data into one of the new synth bodies?

Also, is it my imagination or does Data look far better in the last episode vs the first one? Lighting? CG? Makeup?



vs

 

Mudo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,367
Tennessee
Just finished the last episode.
I give the season an 8/10.
I generally really enjoyed the story and episodes although some things were not fully explored and developed, and the “use your imagination” device that can literally do anything is just...not cool.

But overall it was emotional, beautiful, and kept me interested all the way through.

With most loose ends tied up, I really don’t know what Season 2 could even be about? Lots of synthetics on the show in general so maybe something with the Borg.

The end of the last episode raised my eyebrow due to Seven just sitting down to head off on the next mission with the rest of the crew. Is she joining the main cast for S2?!?! That would be incredible. I love her character and the whole Fenris Ranger thing just seems perfect. Excited for Season 2 but with Covid I’m betting we don’t see it til next summer.
 
Oct 25, 2017
653
That had to be the worst example of "Prepare to Fire"....something..."Prepare to Fire"...something..."Prepare to Fire" I have ever seen. I'll come back for Disco, but this was a mess.
 

Shorty11857

Member
Oct 25, 2017
311
Reading comments from people makes me feel really weird that I liked this show and Discovery.

They've been fun, which is a lot higher praise than I'd give the first season of any Star Trek show really.
 

StallionDan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,150
What a load of shit.

There are a lot of problems with the finale, but some really simple things that could have been great moments were just lame. The Federation Fleet basically all being the same ship sucked, same with the Romulans. I guess the SFX guys got cheap and rather hit copy and paste than design new ships, or remodel old ones. Defiant, Sovereign, Intrepid and even Galaxy class ships should still be in use. Throwing a 3 nacelle Galaxy class would have been perfect.

But also how the hell do you not have Riker commanding the Titan?
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,865
Riker has a transporter twin. They could probably duplicate that accident and photocopy human beings if they wanted. Maybe they always could, but made it illegal.
Also let's be clear, Riker's transporter twin was his own person that eventually turned evil. He was his own unique person. So, if he were killed or died you can;t just say, "oh well, the other Riker is still here." When Ensign Kim got fucking killed and replaced with another Kim that doesn't change the fact that KIM FUCKING DIED! He's dead, that Kim is dead and is never coming back.

Picard is dead. This is another copy. But our Picard is dead. This android literally shares no biological components of our Picard, it's made purely out of computer programming. It's a new person. Soji's sister, Daj, is dead. The fact that Soji exists doesn't change that. She's dead.
 

StallionDan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,150
That had to be the worst example of "Prepare to Fire"....something..."Prepare to Fire"...something..."Prepare to Fire" I have ever seen. I'll come back for Disco, but this was a mess.
I laughed at that, the number of times Oh tells them to target things, first the entire planet, then the Synth buildings, then the planet again, the some "Pattern 5" or whatever nonsense.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,281
Yes! Why didn't they put Data into one of the new synth bodies?

Also, is it my imagination or does Data look far better in the last episode vs the first one? Lighting? CG? Makeup?



vs

Your example of the "first" episode an unfinished image from an earlier trailer. He didn't actually look like that in the final episode 1.
There was still refinement in progress regarding his skin, eyes, and hair.
At release it looked a lot better.



I think the final episode did look even better though.
 

SG-17

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,785
Reading comments from people makes me feel really weird that I liked this show and Discovery.

They've been fun, which is a lot higher praise than I'd give the first season of any Star Trek show really.
Don't be fooled, this thread is by far and wide an outlier.

Discovery had a rough first season but it really grew its beard in its second season and Picard started out with a nice even five o'clock shadow.