Star Trek: Picard - Season 1 |OT| Re-ENGAGE!

Wrexis

Member
Nov 4, 2017
662
For those of you who have not played Mass Effect and don't understand all the "OMG, Mass Effect rip-off lol" comments, this might explain why it's so blatant to those who have played the game.

EDIT: I had no idea this guy had a reputation. I removed the video.
 
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SG-17

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,785
For those of you who have not played Mass Effect and don't understand all the "OMG, Mass Effect rip-off lol" comments, this might explain why it's so blatant to those who have played the game.
It's at worst superficially similar, but there aren't any concepts new to Star Trek being introduced in Picard save for the AI-Federation spanning multiple galaxies.

Frankly using a dumbass YouTube's smash edit that is devoid of context doesn't help the discussion.
 
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Kal Shintar

Member
Dec 11, 2018
78
For those of you who have not played Mass Effect and don't understand all the "OMG, Mass Effect rip-off lol" comments, this might explain why it's so blatant to those who have played the game.

Major Grin is part of the Fandom Menace, the alt-right adjacent youtubers. His specialty is making similar videos, where by he takes clips out of context or removes the context in an effort to claim that Star Trek is too 'woke' or ripping off something.

As per usual this the same bullshit to appeal to the perpetually outraged. Lots of barely coherent shit thrown together to suggest copying, totally ignoring previous case where Star Trek has used similar imagery or devices.

The amazing suggestion that the Reaper Horn, is original! I must have imagined everybody comparing it to the infamous Inception horns! Or that the plot of Mass effect doesn't owe a lot to Alastair Reynolds Revelation Space/Inhibatorverse or Fred Saberhagens Beserkers (what with the Qwib-Qwib easter egg).
 

Quiksaver

Member
Oct 26, 2017
773

Now I really want a new Mass Effect to role play as Picard
or at least a remaster so I can do it all over again

Or as they say in tenagra:
Shepard and Saren at the citadel
his mind blown
 

Wrexis

Member
Nov 4, 2017
662
Major Grin is part of the Fandom Menace, the alt-right adjacent youtubers...

Or that the plot of Mass effect doesn't owe a lot to Alastair Reynolds Revelation Space/Inhibatorverse or Fred Saberhagens Beserkers (what with the Qwib-Qwib easter egg).
Yikes. So I didn't know about Major Grin's reputation. I removed the video.

That being said, I think people are missing the point here.
It's not that Mass Effect did it first (it mostly definitely didn't), it's that for many people it was the first time they were exposed to the concept and is the more memorable.

Put it this way, see this?



For some people seeing this, their first thoughts will be "Oh, that's Larry Niven's Ringworld".
For many more people - especially on this forum - it's Halo.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,388
For those of you who have not played Mass Effect and don't understand all the "OMG, Mass Effect rip-off lol" comments, this might explain why it's so blatant to those who have played the game.

EDIT: I had no idea this guy had a reputation. I removed the video.
A lot of what's in the video is contextually dubious anyway.

i think it's now pretty clear that there was some influence taken by the writers of Picard from Mass Effect (which goes further than happening to use the same tropes as Mass Effect).

However, things like comparing the admonition to the ME beacons...
There's more beacons in Mass Effect (far more than just one), they're targeted at organics, they're a warning to those organics from the Proteans, and they're intended as a warning about a scheduled genocide (not an invitation to start that genocide). The main similarity is that they're a warning from the past, and saying Picard is ripping off Mass Effect because of that aspect is really a stretch.

There's further comparisons of long-held secrets and information being transmitted by touching a machine - these are just sci-fi tropes in general. Yeah, they're in both Mass Effect and Picard, but I would have no difficulty finding numerous examples of each in various Star Trek episodes that predate Mass Effect.

Where there's clear influence from ME is
the ancient race of genocidal technologically superior synthetic life forms that live outside of time and space waiting for a signal to begin wiping out organic life because of a long-held belief that organic and synthetic life cannot live together.

A properly critical video (that wasn't just made to push an alt-right agenda) could have highlighted these real similarities, but instead it chose to focus on minutiae.
 

JonnyDBrit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,714
A lot of what's in the video is contextually dubious anyway.

i think it's now pretty clear that there was some influence taken by the writers of Picard from Mass Effect (which goes further than happening to use the same tropes as Mass Effect).

However, things like comparing the admonition to the ME beacons...

There's more beacons in Mass Effect (far more than just one), they're targeted at organics, they're a warning to those organics from the Proteans, and they're intended as a warning about a scheduled genocide (not an invitation to start that genocide). The main similarity is that they're a warning from the past, and saying Picard is ripping off Mass Effect because of that aspect is really a stretch.

There's further comparisons of long-held secrets and information being transmitted by touching a machine - these are just sci-fi tropes in general. Yeah, they're in both Mass Effect and Picard, but I would have no difficulty finding numerous examples of each in various Star Trek episodes that predate Mass Effect.

Where there's clear influence from ME is

the ancient race of genocidal technologically superior synthetic life forms that live outside of time and space waiting for a signal to begin wiping out organic life because of a long-held belief that organic and synthetic life cannot live together.

A properly critical video (that wasn't just made to push an alt-right agenda) could have highlighted these real similarities, but instead it chose to focus on minutiae.
Really, it would be the cumulative aspects of all that layered together that would make the influences of Mass Effect more probable. Especially as the warning is with specific regards to these synthetic life forms - connecting potentially otherwise disparate elements - though in this case the writers added a layer of difficulty to understanding such.

And like, a work can be blatantly influenced by something but still stand on its own merits. I mean hell, as discussed previously the AI-centric storyline plays into a lot of stuff that much of this same staff explored in Discovery season 2, so a lot of these thoughts are likely just on their mind at the moment.
 

deimosmasque

Member
Apr 22, 2018
2,498
Tampa, Fl
Much like Star Wars YouTube videos about Star Trek are rarely safe. The Phantom Menace has spread far and wide on YouTube and even videos about just the Lore of Star Trek can suddenly go into a tangent about wokeness and sjws
 

H.Cornerstone

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,418
A lot of what's in the video is contextually dubious anyway.

i think it's now pretty clear that there was some influence taken by the writers of Picard from Mass Effect (which goes further than happening to use the same tropes as Mass Effect).

However, things like comparing the admonition to the ME beacons...
There's more beacons in Mass Effect (far more than just one), they're targeted at organics, they're a warning to those organics from the Proteans, and they're intended as a warning about a scheduled genocide (not an invitation to start that genocide). The main similarity is that they're a warning from the past, and saying Picard is ripping off Mass Effect because of that aspect is really a stretch.

There's further comparisons of long-held secrets and information being transmitted by touching a machine - these are just sci-fi tropes in general. Yeah, they're in both Mass Effect and Picard, but I would have no difficulty finding numerous examples of each in various Star Trek episodes that predate Mass Effect.

Where there's clear influence from ME is
the ancient race of genocidal technologically superior synthetic life forms that live outside of time and space waiting for a signal to begin wiping out organic life because of a long-held belief that organic and synthetic life cannot live together.

A properly critical video (that wasn't just made to push an alt-right agenda) could have highlighted these real similarities, but instead it chose to focus on minutiae.
Yeah, that's really where I see the similarities as well.
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
8,181
Sorry I don't think you are seeing what others see. It seems like denial. There is clearly a difference and it's okay if you love the new shows. I don't look down upon people who didn't like Trek mainly for the reasons I liked them. But to say we dislike new-Trek because it's serialized is not true. We dislike it for reasons that you already know. E.g. the character are now much more flawed. Class it more realistic if you want, but that misses the point.

I want heroes like Worf, Crusher and Tuvak.
I mean characters were flawed in DS9. Almost all of them more so than most in this show which are generally just douche-bags with hearts of gold at worst. The problem I've found is the universe here is extremely bleak in all contexts. Everyone and everything hides some secret hidden tragedy waiting to be discovered and there's no real comedy. There's some scenarios one may find funny and there's that episode with some of the old TNG cast that added some levity to it all but there's no fun so to speak everywhere else.

DS9 was filled with assholes and people who hated each other, some more than than others but there was always some dark humour, snide cynicsm and the rest you expect from characters that are put in situations they'd rather not be while needing some sort of release. Then there was the tempered hope and optimism Sisko brought, that the show didn't try to undermine at every second possible.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,026
Rios could probably use a real security and medical officer, given the events of S1.

Rios probably shouldn't be captaining a ship to begin with, actually.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,388
There's this one, which I haven't watched yet:
Yes, this is a much better video, though since it was recorded after episode 8 it is a bit behind the current discussion. Since this video our understanding of the nature of the conflict in Picard has shifted quite a bit and distanced itself from comparisons with the conflict at the centre of Battlestar Galactica (humans vs their own synthetic creations) and moved closer to the conflict we see in ME.

The points about how this conflict is going to be resolved are still strongly relevant though, because that is where Picard presumably will indeed diverge heavily from Mass Effect.
 
Feb 5, 2020
348
Hey all, didnt mean to be a bit of a prick about the whole cool thing, I must say I didnt feel like I was "antagonizing" anyone, just trying to have a discussion about a borg ship coming out of warp and why it was so damn cool.

i didnt mean to offend anyone, let me make that clear.

Lets just forget all that, and look towards the finale.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,868
Right now this season is a 2/5 for me and really I think 40/100 is a generous rating for what we've been subjected to.

Depending on what the finale does that could inch up or down but I really hope they fire the writing staff and bring in talent for season 2 who can actually avoid the unimaginative tropes this season has been riddled with. The complete lack of genuine character interaction (outside some Seven scenes and Nepenthe w/ Riker + Troi) and contrivances that drive the plot forward are just a little bit too much to take seriously. No way a world that is as rich as Star Trek's should revert to cliches that take its characters and audience for complete idiots that are willing to constantly suspend disbelief.

And for the love of god, somebody please kill Agnes.
 

Combo

Member
Jan 8, 2019
459
The problem I've found is the universe here is extremely bleak in all contexts. Everyone and everything hides some secret hidden tragedy waiting to be discovered and there's no real comedy. There's some scenarios one may find funny and there's that episode with some of the old TNG cast that added some levity to it all but there's no fun so to speak everywhere else.
Didn't many of the characters in TNG also have past tragedies? Picard was a loser as a student and got stabbed in the heart, Crusher lost her husband, Riker and Troi had a breakup over a seemingly petty issue, Worf lost his parents and lives away from his tribe etc.

The difference between TNG and PIC is how they deal with these problems and overcome them. There is no vaping, drinking, drugs, cursing, nihilism etc.

Even if comedy were to be brought into PIC it would still be a set of broken characters doing it.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,026
Right now this season is a 2/5 for me and really I think 40/100 is a generous rating for what we've been subjected to.

Depending on what the finale does that could inch up or down but I really hope they fire the writing staff and bring in talent for season 2 who can actually avoid the unimaginative tropes this season has been riddled with. The complete lack of genuine character interaction (outside some Seven scenes and Nepenthe w/ Riker + Troi) and contrivances that drive the plot forward are just a little bit too much to take seriously. No way a world that is as rich as Star Trek's should revert to cliches that take its characters and audience for complete idiots that are willing to constantly suspend disbelief.

And for the love of god, somebody please kill Agnes.
and Narek

2/5 is fair, IMO; much like the titular character, Picard is flawed but not irredeemable. If they can match or exceed the quality of Nepenthe every episode next season, I'd be happy. That ep has been far and away the best of the run, unless the finale is something real special.
 

Quinton

We need to talk about Edelgard...
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,670
The Research Triangle
Well this is depressing to read

Edit: TrekBBS seems way more positive. Not sure who to trust.
Trust yourself once you’ve watched it.

I’m on both sites and I’m very much in agreement with TrekBBS here — after being somewhat disappointed with the rough editing and such last week, mind you. This show has gotten a ton of flak here on Era but by the time the credits rolled tonight I was weeping in a good way. Picard has been a flawed piece, no way around it, and I hope it improves going forward. But I liked the episode and the season overall.
 
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Kzinti

Member
Oct 27, 2017
897
U.S.S Discovery
what a waste of resource that could have gone to discovery or the upcoming trek shows from the disco team and fuck chabon dude can't write good trek like fuck me the entire show went fucking nowhere everything was fucking pointless

overall the show deserve a 2/10 since there was only two good episode Stardust City Rag(minus the borg kebab) and Nepenthe because of nostalgia.


ill repeat myself but FUCK MICHAEL CHABON

as for the episode itself well the only good part was the teaser for disco season 3
 

Tukarrs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,392
Did the Enterprise F appear??
Riker arrives with the fleet in a ship with a registry that sounds Asian (I'm not sure at this moment) that's not the Enterprise. The fleet is like only two different class of ships, which is extremely disappointing. It was a perfect chance to see old designs mixed with new ones.

I think
deaging on Data and Brent Spiner was pretty good. He looks like he did in Nemesis. The voice however doesn't lie. It just sounds too 'weak at times.

It's surprising
that Data wanted to be unplugged. I would have predicted that they revive Data somehow during the series. It turned out that a version of him existed on the colony the whole time and wanted out. Makes sense in a way, I guess.

I think the season doesn't feel 'complete'. The pacing of the series seems very strange to me.
How the 'ban' is now lifted just because of this incident?
It's a bit underwhelming but I'm looking forward to seeing more of the show.
 

Quinton

We need to talk about Edelgard...
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,670
The Research Triangle
what a waste of resource that could have gone to discovery or the upcoming trek shows from the disco team and fuck chabon dude can't write good trek like fuck me the entire show went fucking nowhere everything was fucking pointless

overall the show deserve a 2/10 since there was only two good episode Stardust City Rag(minus the borg kebab) and Nepenthe because of nostalgia.


ill repeat myself but FUCK MICHAEL CHABON

as for the episode itself well the only good part was the teaser for disco season 3
Wow. I feel like you and I just watched two separate episodes of television. I’m sorry to read that you disliked the season so much. I’m giving it closer to a 7.5, which is a little above where Discovery S1 settled for me. Discovery S2 is still the 8.5 “king” of the current era, but I’m excited to see where Picard goes from here.
 

Tukarrs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,392
At the end of the season, here's my ranking of the 'main' characters.

Elnor MVP
Jurati
Rios
Picard
Raffi
Soji
Seven
Narek
.
.
.
,
Narissa
 

Kzinti

Member
Oct 27, 2017
897
U.S.S Discovery
At the end of the season, here's my ranking of the 'main' characters.

Elnor MVP
Jurati
Rios
Picard
Raffi
Soji
Seven
Narek
.
.
.
,
Narissa
ranking soji and jurati the murderer higher than seven? are you joking ?

I’m giving it closer to a 7.5, which is a little above where Discovery S1 settled for me
i'm gonna be honest for me discovery s1 feels like citizen kane compared to picard the show could have been condensed into a 5 episode series by cutting the nonsense
 
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Typhon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,716
I did enjoy the final episode but that
fake out death was such bullshit, why couldn't they have just cut to Picard and Data instead of the sentimental crap. We all knew he wasn't going to die, don't why know they even bothered aside from padding.
 

jedivulcan

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,082
I'll only state my positives:

They fixed the Starfleet uniform. There's no more v-neck collar. One of the extras still wore the older uniform. Hopefully the change sticks going forward.

Riker.

Man .. the tongue and cheek "I got tired of making pizzas" ... I wish there was more Riker. Frakes really pulled it off.




and at least it seems like Seven of Nine is sticking around.


Edit:

Past 4AM. Got to set my alarm to assimilate the day.

 

Dr Doom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,801
Only 2:40 minutes season recap ( omitting some characters)

Season has a lot of padding.
I did enjoy Rios and his holograms. At least it’s not a Han Solo knock off.

Narek just disappeared
 

Quinton

We need to talk about Edelgard...
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,670
The Research Triangle
Only 2:40 minutes season recap ( omitting some characters)

Season has a lot of padding.
I did enjoy Rios and his holograms. At least it’s not a Han Solo knock off.

Narek just disappeared
I brought up Narek on TrekBBS earlier. Somehow, I even missed that he was taken prisoner by the synths again.

I suspect Harry Treadaway will return for season 2 but the writers knew what sentimentalities they wanted to evoke during the epilogue sequences and Narek being confined to a prison cell wasn’t part of that.
 

Dr Doom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,801
I brought up Narek on TrekBBS earlier. Somehow, I even missed that he was taken prisoner by the synths again.

I suspect Harry Treadaway will return for season 2 but the writers knew what sentimentalities they wanted to evoke during the epilogue sequences and Narek being confined to a prison cell wasn’t part of that.
I'm guessing Narissa is also alive.