So wait, Palpatine DIDN'T order the creation of the clone army?

TableBeRound

Alt account
Banned
Oct 21, 2019
235
So I was looking around Wookieepedia and I was shocked to learn that Sifo-Dias, a Jedi, really did order the creation of the clone army as the Kaminoans claimed. For 17 years I thought that Palpatine had the guy killed and then posed as him to order the clones but no. Instead, Dooku went to Kamino after the fact and gave them a biochip (Order 66) to be implanted into all the clones. Am I the only one who didn't now this was the case?
 

Birdseye

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,073
So I was looking around Wookieepedia and I was shocked to learn that Sifo-Dias, a Jedi, really did order the creation of the clone army as the Kaminoans claimed. For 17 years I thought that Palpatine had the guy killed and then posed as him to order the clones but no.
When did the movie say that?
 

TheJollyCorner

The Fallen
Nov 7, 2017
2,452
I didn't know...

...and I still wonder what Christopher Lee's initial reaction was when Lucas told him his character was named Dooku.

As always with Lee, I'm sure it was completely professional.
 

Duane

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,016
I don't remember any revelations that indicated the clone army somehow wasn't Palpatine's idea, but if that's the case, that's silly.
 

gforguava

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,800
Friendly reminder that in an early draft 'Sifo-Dyas' was originally 'Sido-Dyas' aka the lamest alias imaginable for 'Sidious'. With Palpatine making the order for the Clone army while masquerading as a Jedi Master who didn't exist.

Good ol' George changed it for no discernible reason and complicated the whole plot for no gain.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,363
Atlanta GA
Watch Clone Wars because it goes into all of that.

If anyone wants a deep dive into Sidious/Palpatines machinations during the PT era, watching Clone Wars is a must. The show is more valuable narratively than the entire PT.
 
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TableBeRound

TableBeRound

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Oct 21, 2019
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Friendly reminder that in an early draft 'Sifo-Dyas' was originally 'Sido-Dyas' aka the lamest alias imaginable for 'Sidious'. With Palpatine making the order for the Clone army while masquerading as a Jedi Master who didn't exist.

Good ol' George changed it for no discernible reason and complicated the whole plot for no gain.
Sifo-Dyas clearly existed though because Obi-Wan knew that he had died. I guess that was Geroge already complicating it and then complicating it even further with The Clone Wars.
 

Mass Effect

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,975
Friendly reminder that in an early draft 'Sifo-Dyas' was originally 'Sido-Dyas' aka the lamest alias imaginable for 'Sidious'. With Palpatine making the order for the Clone army while masquerading as a Jedi Master who didn't exist.

Good ol' George changed it for no discernible reason and complicated the whole plot for no gain.
Well, either way, they retconned this and Dias was an actual Jedi.
 

molnizzle

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,630
Good ol' George changed it for no discernible reason and complicated the whole plot for no gain.
The reason was a single typo in the script. D and F are right next to each other on the keyboard. George liked the way "Sifo-Dyas" looked so he decided to change it everywhere with the intention of explaining more in Episode III. Whoopsie.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
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Oct 25, 2017
11,815
I just assumed that he was manipulated into doing it. Like Sidious or whoever sent him a vision of a future droid army that needed to be opposed.
 

Ushojax

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,951
So I was looking around Wookieepedia and I was shocked to learn that Sifo-Dias, a Jedi, really did order the creation of the clone army as the Kaminoans claimed. For 17 years I thought that Palpatine had the guy killed and then posed as him to order the clones but no. Instead, Dooku went to Kamino after the fact and gave them a biochip (Order 66) to be implanted into all the clones. Am I the only one who didn't now this was the case?
Based solely on Episode 2 the only possible inference is that Dooku, on Sidious's orders, commisioned the clones. Jango Fett tells Obi-Wan he was hired for the clone template by a man named Tyranus, and has never heard of Sifo-Dyas. At the end of the movie we discover that Dooku is Darth Tyranus.

The TV show that came out years later apparently tried to explain it differently but probably 99% of filmgoers will never watch that show. You shouldn't need to watch a cartoon to understand a film.
 

Ravelle

Member
Oct 31, 2017
6,464
I just watched that episode, Syfo Dias I believe foresaw some big conflict and wanted to create an army, it was pretty vague, no idea how he came to the idea to make a clone army.

Palatine was responsible for the Order 66 chip in them which at some point malfunctioned and activated at one of the clones prematurely, that chip later was extracted to and most likely used as a template for one that worked, I think. The show stopped at that point.

Question is though if Palatine made new clones with the template or did he alter the existing clones somehow.
 

Duane

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,016
So apparently, Sifo Dyas was on the Jedi Council around the time of the Naboo Invasion or just before, and ordered the army of his own volition. It was his idea because he had a Jedi vision and saw there would be a big war, so he thought the Jedi should raise an army. Yoda, Mace and the rest of the council told him to quit smoking crack and explicitly NOT to raise an army. Sifo went to Kamino and ordered one anyway.

Freshly promoted Chancellor Palpatine caught wind of it (despite the fact that the Jedi Council didn't) and thought it seemed like a good idea, so he had Sifo killed, and sent Dooku to take over the project. Dooku picked Jango to be the template, and had them add the Order 66 chip (under the pretense of it being there to curb Jango's innate rebellious tendencies). Then they left Kamino alone for the next 9 years or however long, and waited until it was time.
 

Doober

The Fallen
Jun 10, 2018
3,095
Still blows my mind that a single person can go and be like, "yeah I'd like to order an army."

"Credit or debit?"
 

finfinfin

The Fallen
Jul 26, 2018
297
I didn't know...

...and I still wonder what Christopher Lee's initial reaction was when Lucas told him his character was named Dooku.

As always with Lee, I'm sure it was completely professional.
Who wouldn't want to play a sith who shares their name with the number one DJ in the galaxy?

 

Robin64

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,241
England
Didn't realise Order 66 was carried out using chips in the clones, I always assumed it was just a secret order they all knew about and, being loyal soldiers, would follow when told to.
 

Starphanluke

Member
Nov 15, 2017
1,814
I will echo everyone else here and say that the entire Clone Army bullshit makes 0 sense until you watch the Clone Wars episodes that provide the proper explanation.

I never understood it for years. What a mess.

But yes, Palpatine did not order it. Moreso co-opted it. Sifo-Diyas ordered it after recieving a vision of the future. He was then murdered by Dooku under Palpatine's orders, who then silently took control of the project.
 

Volimar

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Oct 25, 2017
11,815
Didn't realise Order 66 was carried out using chips in the clones, I always assumed it was just a secret order they all knew about and, being loyal soldiers, would follow when told to.
The chip was one of the best ideas I think. In one of the animated series we see how haunted of of the Clones who survived were by having to carry out the order against their will, and towards the end of Clone Wars you see one of the Clones actually stumble on the chip in what i thought were some of the best episodes of that series.
 

Robin64

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,241
England
The chip was one of the best ideas I think. In one of the animated series we see how haunted of of the Clones who survived were by having to carry out the order against their will, and towards the end of Clone Wars you see one of the Clones actually stumble on the chip in what i thought were some of the best episodes of that series.
Sounds like it actually pays off, then, maybe I should watch the show. :)
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,007
Canada
I knew about it. Pretty much what Duane said is what happened. Also in the original expanded universe one of the reasons why Palpatine created the Empire was because he knew eventually the Yuuzhan Vong were coming to the galaxy and he needed enough power and strength to combat them. It is all pretty dumb.
 

Volimar

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Oct 25, 2017
11,815
Sounds like it actually pays off, then, maybe I should watch the show. :)

Clone Wars is great for a lot of reasons so you really should. I think the series that deals with the aftermath are an episode or two of Rebels (I may be wrong) which is mostly just okay imo.
 

gforguava

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,800
Sifo-Dyas clearly existed though because Obi-Wan knew that he had died. I guess that was Geroge already complicating it and then complicating it even further with The Clone Wars.
Originally there was no Jedi Master by that name and everything was much clearer and simple.

OBI-WAN (V.O.)
...I've never heard of a Jedi
called Sido-Dyas, have you, Master?

MACE WINDU
No. Whoever placed that order was
not a Jedi, I can assure you.
And for good measure the Jedi are aware of the mysterious nature of the Clone army's origin. They initially assume it is being made for Dooku and the Separatists, with Obi-Wan being shocked at the Kaminoans hatred of the Separatist movement. And this leads the characters to suspect that someone in the Senate is behind it in order to start this war.

That all gets thrown out though and if you only watch the films there is a 'Sifo-Dyas' smudge on the story that makes the Jedi look incredibly, incredibly stupid(and this bleeds into Sith where the Jedi have to be morons for the whole of the story to function).

The reason was a single typo in the script. D and F are right next to each other on the keyboard. George liked the way "Sifo-Dyas" looked so he decided to change it everywhere with the intention of explaining more in Episode III. Whoopsie.
Whoopsie indeed.

It might not be as easy to point to as some of the other big flaws of the prequels but I think it is one of the most telling. The way Lucas just changed a key part of Palpatine's master plan on a whim and then didn't follow up on it to actually make it work says so much.
 

finfinfin

The Fallen
Jul 26, 2018
297
I might as well just go to sleep now. Nothing will top this peak today.
That's just one part of one episode in the Auralnauts Star Wars saga.


Dance of the Fates is just as rad in the first episode!

(it's Star Wars, but the Jedi are dirtbags who live to party and the Sith are just trying to run a wholesome family-oriented business empire)

(mostly)

(they've done six episodes covering six films and they've managed to tell a consistently good story with worldbuilding, character arcs, serious drama, and a villain so powerful they may have become canon)
 
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TableBeRound

TableBeRound

Alt account
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Oct 21, 2019
235
Originally there was no Jedi Master by that name and everything was much clearer and simple.
This would have been a nice streamlined explanation, yeah.

Also, if Sifo-Dyas ordered the army, where did he get the money from? I'm pretty sure you'd have to pay in advance for something like that and considering the cloners also built the ships, vehicles and all the tech we're talking about trillions and trillions of credits. I could see Palpatine having that kind wealth considering that he's old and probably also acquired everything Plagueis had. But a Jedi?
 

Mr Spasiba

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,124
Friendly reminder that in an early draft 'Sifo-Dyas' was originally 'Sido-Dyas' aka the lamest alias imaginable for 'Sidious'. With Palpatine making the order for the Clone army while masquerading as a Jedi Master who didn't exist.

Good ol' George changed it for no discernible reason and complicated the whole plot for no gain.
Idk about no reason, cause if this was the case then the two options for how the story could have gone would either be the Jedi being told their massive clone army was ordered by a guy they presumably know is fake and stupidly accepting it, or they arenā€™t told who ordered it and stupidly accept a clone army from an anonymous donor (?).
 

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,432
I always thought it was Dooku who went and ordered them, since he was so involved in the whole thing. He is a former jedi master after all (isn't he?). I figured Sifo-dyas was an alias he used.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,229
Sounds like it actually pays off, then, maybe I should watch the show. :)
Another thing is that the chip almost felt like it was needed.

In the Clone Wars you get a ton of episodes dedicated to just the Clones and what they go through. It was obvious that many Clone Troopers, like Rex, would NEVER EVER betray their Commander even if ordered to. So with the chip it makes it far more tragic since it doesn't matter how their Commander treated them and if they were loyal, they would do it.

Far as we know, Rex, Wolffe, and Gregor are the only 3 Clones to get their chips removed.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,089
Still blows my mind that a single person can go and be like, "yeah I'd like to order an army."

"Credit or debit?"
Well yeah, they are clones. It's really no different than the Trade Federation mass producing combat droids, except that the clones are still human and thus ethically much more problematic.
 

jimtothehum

Member
Mar 23, 2018
387
Sifo-Dyas sounds still too close Sideous to not draw the conclusion that somehow they are linked, I kept waiting for a reveal that never happened.

It's a storyline that used to drive me nuts when I still actually cared about the prequels. Obi Wan spends most of AOTS tracking this mystery and when you get to the answer, it's needlessly complicated and dumb. It's best to purge the prequels from your mind and try not too spend to much thought on them.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,089
This would have been a nice streamlined explanation, yeah.

Also, if Sifo-Dyas ordered the army, where did he get the money from? I'm pretty sure you'd have to pay in advance for something like that and considering the cloners also built the ships, vehicles and all the tech we're talking about trillions and trillions of credits. I could see Palpatine having that kind wealth considering that he's old and probably also acquired everything Plagueis had. But a Jedi?
Jedi are literally the law enforcement arm of the Republic. It's not that different from an Army general approaching Boeing and ordering a bunch of fighter jets. The government would be funding it.