So assuming a direct sequel to Three Houses came out, which path do you think it would spin out of? Open spoilers obviously.

Which path is canon

  • Crimson Flower

    Votes: 140 45.0%
  • Silver Snow

    Votes: 34 10.9%
  • Azure Moon

    Votes: 39 12.5%
  • Verdant Wind

    Votes: 98 31.5%

  • Total voters
    311

PBalfredo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,038
So not only you are using the both sides argument here, but you are also implying that Edelgard is the only one that is ideological right...
Nah it isnt how things work. You can't excuse Imperialism because your ideology is correct or you think is correct. It is just the same thing the US do with their "Freedom" bs.
All routes conquer Fodlan. If Edelgard is an imperialist for unifying Fodlan through force, then Dimitri, Claude, Byleth and the church are imperialists too, even if they don't fancy themselves as such. But whereas most of them annex out of convenience or opportunity during the course of the war, Edelgard is the one with any sort of ideological groundwork for what gives her the right to march against the illegitimate nobles and force them to give up their territories.

This is an important distinction because she also respects the limits of this ideology. The crested nobility are the cause of Fodlan's woes and must be torn asunder, but that does not extend beyond Fodlan. Edelgard's paralogue shows that she respects the border with Almyra and even ends with her stating that she is eager to treat with them to end the long-running border tension. In all endings where Petra survives, Brigid gains their independence during Edelgard's reign amicably.

She views Fodlan as Fodlan, and despite her title she is disdainful of any imperialistic pursuits outside of Fodlan. And yet there is an annoying tendency by some to paint her as the lone imperialist in the game - even going so far as to insinuate that any fans of hers are also apologists for real-world imperialism.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,876
I love Edelgard and think she's a fantastic character and one of the greatest female character designs in recent memory, but I do admit I get kind of annoyed with the "Edelgard did nothing wrong" stuff. Like she's obviously a morally grey character with a sympathetic and tragic past, which is why I find her so interesting, but also one of her very first actions in the game is hiring a bandit to kill a bunch of students. Like....she's clearly a bit flawed in the mind, people.
 

Metroidvania

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,707
You are bending over backwards hardcore to make CF into some sort of golden route.
Dimitri joins Edelgard because "He gets some sort of sense knocked into him"?
You are off living in some sort of fanfiction fantasy land.
Frankly, a Golden route where all three lords live isn't really possible, it just makes no sense for the characters involved.
I mean....

in CF Dimitri hates Edelgard far less, because he doesn't get all of the information regarding her and her 'role' in the Duscur tragedy and what happens to the two's shared mom. (Which isn't entirely accurate, but kind of besides the point).If it were Azure Moon, you'd have much more of a point.

That being said, I agree that a golden route is basically impossible, save for cutting/re-working huge swathes of the story. At the very least, Rhea and Edelgard are basically incompatible.
 

Cordy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,468
You are bending over backwards hardcore to make CF into some sort of golden route.
Dimitri joins Edelgard because "He gets some sort of sense knocked into him"?
You are off living in some sort of fanfiction fantasy land.
Frankly, a Golden route where all three lords live isn't really possible, it just makes no sense for the characters involved.
Dawg, what are you talking about? This was a basic thread topic and my answer was "I think the Crimson Flower path would work with a change or two" and here you are bringing up fanfiction because you don't like my opinion. It's not even that serious let alone in my first post I strictly said "Crimson Flower with a few changes." Nowhere in any of my posts did I say "Crimson Flower can work as is in currently" and I said that because it can't work as is. There's no path you can take that has all of the lords working together if it sticks to how it is currently which is why I brought up potential changes.

Let alone even in the regular Crimson Flower path nowhere does it paint Edelgard as a saint nor as "the ultimate good." She does good things, she does bad things and if you want to go even further the title "Crimson Flower" says all you need to know about her as a character. She's a gray character and out of all of the paths her path is the most gray you can get for a good reason.

To you questioning Dimitri "getting some sense knocked into him", see, that's the thing this game does very well. Dimitri and Edelgard are both flawed characters and without Sensei they'd turn into who they are in the other character's story. Edelgard doesn't have him? She ends up who she is in the Blue Lion path. Sensei not behind Dimitri? Well you saw what happened to him in actually both paths. With that said it's really easy for me to believe that if they somehow made a sequel if Byleth spent a certain amount of time with one of them (in their bad state from the other path) they'd change over time because that's basically what Byleth does to these characters. "Getting some sense knocked into him" means "beating him down in a mission and over time and with Byleth's help he changes." That's no fanfiction because he's consistently changing multiple characters throughout the game.

Lastly, you're saying "it's not possible" which, again, goes back to my initial post where I said you'd have to change things in order for it to happen. Currently it's not possible but with some changes yeah I think it's possible.

At the end of the day though it's not that serious and it's a forum. If you disagree then shit, just disagree.
 

Solar Puffin

Member
Oct 8, 2018
3,820
Sydney
Dawg, what are you talking about? This was a basic thread topic and my answer was "I think the Crimson Flower path would work with a change or two" and here you are bringing up fanfiction because you don't like my opinion. It's not even that serious let alone in my first post I strictly said "Crimson Flower with a few changes." Nowhere in any of my posts did I say "Crimson Flower can work as is in currently" and I said that because it can't work as is. There's no path you can take that has all of the lords working together if it sticks to how it is currently which is why I brought up potential changes.

Let alone even in the regular Crimson Flower path nowhere does it paint Edelgard as a saint nor as "the ultimate good." She does good things, she does bad things and if you want to go even further the title "Crimson Flower" says all you need to know about her as a character. She's a gray character and out of all of the paths her path is the most gray you can get for a good reason.

To you questioning Dimitri "getting some sense knocked into him", see, that's the thing this game does very well. Dimitri and Edelgard are both flawed characters and without Sensei they'd turn into who they are in the other character's story. Edelgard doesn't have him? She ends up who she is in the Blue Lion path. Sensei not behind Dimitri? Well you saw what happened to him in actually both paths. With that said it's really easy for me to believe that if they somehow made a sequel if Byleth spent a certain amount of time with one of them (in their bad state from the other path) they'd change over time because that's basically what Byleth does to these characters. "Getting some sense knocked into him" means "beating him down in a mission and over time and with Byleth's help he changes." That's no fanfiction because he's consistently changing multiple characters throughout the game.

Lastly, you're saying "it's not possible" which, again, goes back to my initial post where I said you'd have to change things in order for it to happen. Currently it's not possible but with some changes yeah I think it's possible.

At the end of the day though it's not that serious and it's a forum. If you disagree then shit, just disagree.
"We'll change Dimitri by beating him up multiple times and then placing Byleth in his vicinity!"
Dimitri's redemption in BL was considerably more complex than Byleth's presence.
His changes in BL didn't involve completely changing his worldview, for one thing.

Personally, if we MUST have everyone survive and have the sequel set in Fodlan, then you have a much simpler way of going about it, just have Edelgard let herself be captured at the end of BL, and have her locked away as a war criminal during the events of the sequel. You can do some interesting things with such a setup. It's still not a good idea as I don't think anything should change. I think Fodlans story is done (Or at least, it will be after the DLC)

Also, why do you speak of Edelgard and Dimitri as if their flaws were equal.
Edelgard started a war (and with faulty reasoning, too) leading to mass loss of innocent life, she even bluntly says that she will gladly sacrifice innocent lives for her cause. Dimitri became a murderhobo.
 

Cordy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,468
"We'll change Dimitri by beating him up multiple times and then placing Byleth in his vicinity!"
Dimitri's redemption in BL was considerably more complex than Byleth's presence.
His changes in BL didn't involve completely changing his worldview, for one thing.

Personally, if we MUST have everyone survive and have the sequel set in Fodlan, then you have a much simpler way of going about it, just have Edelgard let herself be captured at the end of BL, and have her locked away as a war criminal during the events of the sequel. You can do some interesting things with such a setup. It's still not a good idea as I don't think anything should change. I think Fodlans story is done (Or at least, it will be after the DLC)

Also, why do you speak of Edelgard and Dimitri as if their flaws were equal.
Edelgard started a war (and with faulty reasoning, too) leading to mass loss of innocent life, she even bluntly says that she will gladly sacrifice innocent lives for her cause. Dimitri became a murderhobo.
My point is that Byleth impacting his character can force him to change regardless how low he gets and the same for Edelgard. What I've underlined here is my whole point in choosing Crimson Flower. Edelgard in the non-Crimson Flowers routes given how she's viewed has done so much that if she lived and eventually joined whatever side Byleth is on then it would take longer. Say she's locked up after being captured. It would take way more time for her to somewhat redeem herself compared to a Dimitri. Dimitri on the other hand sure he did some things but it's nothing like what Edelgard did. He can lose, be spared and then go through an arc where he'd eventually have to learn to work with Edelgard, he's still "there" if that makes any sense. Edelgard on the other hand, she was so far gone that sure, she couldn't be redeemed but it would take just a bit more put into it compared to Dimitri.

Either could work with some changes so your way works too. The difference is that I think Dimitri's redemption wouldn't take near as long as Edelgard's if it came to that.
 

Solar Puffin

Member
Oct 8, 2018
3,820
Sydney
My point is that Byleth impacting his character can force him to change regardless how low he gets and the same for Edelgard. What I've underlined here is my whole point in choosing Crimson Flower. Edelgard in the non-Crimson Flowers routes given how she's viewed has done so much that if she lived and eventually joined whatever side Byleth is on then it would take longer. Say she's locked up after being captured. It would take way more time for her to somewhat redeem herself compared to a Dimitri. Dimitri on the other hand sure he did some things but it's nothing like what Edelgard did. He can lose, be spared and then go through an arc where he'd eventually have to learn to work with Edelgard, he's still "there" if that makes any sense. Edelgard on the other hand, she was so far gone that sure, she couldn't be redeemed but it would take just a bit more put into it compared to Dimitri.

Either could work with some changes so your way works too. The difference is that I think Dimitri's redemption wouldn't take near as long as Edelgard's if it came to that.
Why do we have to redeem the war criminal?
You just want more Edelgard.
In every route she's pretty much the villain, and the only route she's not changes her character to make her a bit more palatable.

Here's a thought, set the sequel following Claude fleeing to Almyra after being spared in CF, and eventually builds up to a Fodlan vs Almyra storyline.
Right there, you have a good story to work with that involves more Edelgard and Fodlan, while expanding on the world around it.
 

Cordy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,468
Why do we have to redeem the war criminal?
You just want more Edelgard.

In every route she's pretty much the villain, and the only route she's not changes her character to make her a bit more palatable.

Here's a thought, set the sequel following Claude fleeing to Almyra after being spared in CF, and eventually builds up to a Fodlan vs Almyra storyline.
Right there, you have a good story to work with that involves more Edelgard and Fodlan, while expanding on the world around it.
Bruh it's not that complicated. She's a popular character as all of the lords in this game are hence my idea where they all could potentially live and move onto a new game albeit some changes. Let alone the fact that they're all important characters in general and most fans would be cool with that. I'm not talking about "what it would mean if Edelgard was redeemed", I'm speaking on a specific scenario. This isn't about some grand message of what it would mean if someone like her was redeemed in the non-CF paths. This is an anime war game, come on now.

That idea works as well. I'm not saying that other ideas couldn't work I was just bringing up a specific one I thought of. There's numerous ideas that a sequel could be about.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,672
Whatever was the initial intention at the start of the war doesn't matter when it still ends with annexing your opponent. And killing the current leadership of Adrestia doesn't make the entire empire suddenly up for grabs. This would be like if in the wake of WWII, America made Japan its 51st state. The war with Japan might have started defensively, but an opportunistic grab at imperialism is still imperialism. The other lords don't just occupy Adrestria, they take it over. There' no "reaching" involved in this matter.
Verdant Wind's ending states that Fodlan came together because the War left everything else in tatters. It'd be more like if Europe was decimated by the war, Japan had it's leadership decapitated, and then all of them came together with the US to form a new government and pick someone to lead.

The nobility absolutely exists because crests, backed by the church. This dates all the way back to the foundation of the empire, when the first emperor was crowned by Seiros and the 10 Elites served as the foundation of the noble houses. House Daphnel is in decline and lost its roundtable status precisely because their crest has not appeared in generations. Crests being the foundation of the nobility is the entire reason Edelgard went to war with the church.
Edelgard literally does not know half as much as she think she does about the history of Fodlan. Everything she has been told is from TWSitD or passed down revised history from the Emperors after Faerghus seceded. The Church is opposed to the nobility. As in directly in the text that Rhea herself created.

As for House Daphnel? You're either very confused or literally making things up. House Daphnel lost its power due to its own internal discord. The House that took its seat, House Edmund, has no Crest. Marianne has one, but she's adopted and also it's (believed by everyone to be) cursed.

The Alliance came to be in an inheritance dispute, not a popular uprising. They had a 20 year war because some archduke died and nobles fought for who would rule the territory he left. And the alliance itself a bunch of sovereign nobles who war and feud among themselves for territory (Lorenz' paralogue is a prime example of this)
Valid, though less an inheritance dispute and more they didn't like being ruled by a single Archduke.

Edelgard explicitly leaves the nobility intact? Check again. She explicitly does not.

Directly from her ending cards

I'm not sure how you can look at her endings specifically calling out that she reformed the antiquated class system and tore down the social hierarchy to mean anything but that.
Reform =/= Abolishment. Everyone at the end of Crimson Flower still retains their noble titles and still have lands. Ferdinand's entire point in persuing an implementation of an educational system was addressing this. That Edelgard creating a supposed meritocracy would still advantage the children of the nobility over the common folks because the nobility had access to resources commoners do not. Which wouldn't be an issue if there was no nobility.
 

PBalfredo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,038
Verdant Wind's ending states that Fodlan came together because the War left everything else in tatters. It'd be more like if Europe was decimated by the war, Japan had it's leadership decapitated, and then all of them came together with the US to form a new government and pick someone to lead.


Edelgard literally does not know half as much as she think she does about the history of Fodlan. Everything she has been told is from TWSitD or passed down revised history from the Emperors after Faerghus seceded. The Church is opposed to the nobility. As in directly in the text that Rhea herself created.

As for House Daphnel? You're either very confused or literally making things up. House Daphnel lost its power due to its own internal discord. The House that took its seat, House Edmund, has no Crest. Marianne has one, but she's adopted and also it's (believed by everyone to be) cursed.


Valid, though less an inheritance dispute and more they didn't like being ruled by a single Archduke.


Reform =/= Abolishment. Everyone at the end of Crimson Flower still retains their noble titles and still have lands. Ferdinand's entire point in persuing an implementation of an educational system was addressing this. That Edelgard creating a supposed meritocracy would still advantage the children of the nobility over the common folks because the nobility had access to resources commoners do not. Which wouldn't be an issue if there was no nobility.
Verdant Wind's ending, which features the banner of the Leichester Alliance everywhere, states "The heroes whose very hands saved Fodlan from a dark fate commenced with the building of a new society", the heroes in this case being Claude and the alliance since he was able to appoint Byleth as the new ruler. Between that and Claude's solo ending mentioning putting down revolts by imperial loyalists, Verdant Wind's ending is nation building by the victors, not an act of self-determination for all of Fodlan.

I don't know why you're bringing up what Edelgard does or does not know from oral history because crests being the basis for the nobility's divine right to rule is straight from the church itself. Like you can read that directly in the monastery's library. The church is opposed to the nobility? What? Rhea upholds and sustains the nobility, despite the true origin of their lineage.

There was some incidental monastery dialog relating to Judith and her family's lack of crest coinciding with their downfall. Unfortuanetly I forget which chapter that was from and that type of dialog is hard to look up to double check. Either way, her house has been replaced by the rising House Edmund and it's brought up in several of Marianne's supports that many believe she was adopted to bring her crest into his house to gain prominence, even if which crest in particular is kept on the down low. Between that and instances like the actions of Mercede's father and what happened to Hanneman's sister, nobles are desperate to keep crests in their houses to maintain their prominence.

"Embracing her newfound power, Edelgard could at last set about destroying Fodlan's entrenched system of nobility and rebuild a world free from the tyranny of Crests and status."

The ending of Crimson Flower is very explicit. Edelgard talks constantly about her wish to destroy the nobility. Her ending cards say she tore down the hierarchy of old. The ending graphic literally says she destroyed the entrenched system of nobility. She destroys the nobility. Whether any other mention of title on other characters end cards is due to the reforms not occurring over night, or if the the titles are rendered as powerless as modern day knighthood, it doesn't matter because Crimson Flower reiterates over and over that Edelgard destroys the nobility. To say otherwise is an interpretation of the ending made in bad faith.
 
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PBalfredo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,038
Seeing how the new DLC drops some pretty heavy lore in the secret library, namely how Rhea has been purposefully holding back the technological advancement of Fodlan, I'm changing my answer from Claude's adventures in Almyra to a future post-CF Fodlan that is experiencing a huge technological breakthrough that no one is prepared for. We see an industrial revolution/steampunk Fodlan, a la The Legend of Korra, made possible by rediscovered Agarthan technology and a diminished church no longer holding back Fodlan's advancement. Ever since Awakening, IS has been kicking around the idea of a modern-day Fire Emblem, and I think this is how we could get to something like that.