Shenmue Is The Waterworld Of Videogames (The Jimquisition)

marcbret87

Member
Apr 20, 2018
275
Disproportionate hype? Really? I can understand that about the originals, definitely not about the third part.
 

Garlador

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,661
Of course not, individuals are inspired and influenced by all sorts, Shenmue is in that bucket and is definitely among the games that devs pull from.

I just meant more this kind of thing is an exaggeration that keeps coming up:

Shenmue did not "make open world a thing" that's just nonsense but it's the kind of weird myth that gets perpetuated by fans and sometimes by devs (like in this situation.)
So which game "made open world a thing" according to you?

Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall?
 

Kreed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,117
That doesn't answer the question of Shenmue's budget size.
It wasn't supposed to. The video itself is criticizing the Shenmue series as a whole (not just Shenmue III) and, in Jim's words, the series being a "money vacuum". Whereas comments like "budget size" are more focused on the "Water World" part of the video title.

And he's wrong about a lot of stuff (read my first message in this topic).
This is a much better criticism for the video itself vs the "Jim has a hate boner" topic title reactions.
 

Blayde

Member
Oct 27, 2017
846
Kentucky
I usually like Jim's videos. But whats his deal here? Ok you dont like a game, but how is this jimquisition material?

Shenmue 3 is very clearly made for shenmue fans specifically. I very much enjoyed it, and it was pretty much exactly what i expected. With a little rough edges, but nothing game breaking.

I know a lot of people dont like Jim, i usually do, but i'm honestly shocked how garbage this video is.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,448
Red Grave City
Shitting on a niche game for not being a financial success isn't the best look.
Then again, Jim trolling fans of a franchise is right up his avenue. Jim's at his best when he actually has something to say, instead of regurgitating the same old microtransactions/lootboxes spiel or riling up a fanbase for seemingly no reason, to the delight of his own youtube fanbase. I've no time for him when he's like this.
 

lowmelody

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,354
Jim Sterling's factually wrong when it comes to the funding of the game (and a few other subjects as well). That's what you get when you take unsubstantiated claims and rumors and state them as facts.

As I said in another topic, Epic's money didn't go towards the game's development from what I've heard. It went to Deep Silver.
If true that would a big omission and probably worthy of a video unto itself.

Now I'm curious, could you go into some detail about those other subjects he is wrong about?
 

Ryuman

Member
Nov 1, 2017
337
I mean, like I said, I'm fine with not liking it or not being interested in it, but when I don't like something (like Shenmue!), my response is to just... move on from it, not to continue to engage with it and talk all the time about how it makes me miserable, and others are wrong for liking it when I don't.


I mean, I just don't get it, you know? You don't like it, alright, just move on with your life. Why keep making long ass videos about it?
Because he knows it riles people up, gets clicks, and can use equally overdramatic and immature angry responses from fans for justification and future videos.
 
Oct 28, 2017
8,620
Despite being a huge fan of the earlier games I can't bring myself to buy this, even at the 35 dollar price Best Buy is offering. The fighting - which was one of my favorite things about the franchise - looks like such a step backwards.

I'll probably get this at 20 bucks eventually but regardless, I'm glad the hardcore fanbase is happy with this game.

Honestly, that's all that really matters.
 
Dec 21, 2017
11,572
As someone who loved the original on Dreamcast and was thrilled when I finally got to play 2 localized on the xbox, I did not back or buy Shenmue 3. Why? Because even from the beginning I could see Shenmue 3 didn't appeal to me the way the first games did. I really feel like those originals were great in the way "you had to be there", because at the time the Shenmue games featured incredible feats for video games. I remember being blown away you could open drawers for goodness sake. Had Shenmue 3 not been a blast from the past and replicated the decades old games, it could've interested me so much more. It's funny Jim mentioned the Yakuza games, because for me they were my replacement for Shenmue. It totally sucks that Shenmue 3 seems to have bombed. I didn't realize the game leaves on another cliff hanger until watching this video either. That stings even more because who knows if the story will ever be completed.
 

Sumio Mondo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,849
United Kingdom
Of course not, individuals are inspired and influenced by all sorts, Shenmue is in that bucket and is definitely among the games that devs pull from.

I just meant more this kind of thing is an exaggeration that keeps coming up:


Shenmue did not "make open world a thing" that's just nonsense but it's the kind of weird myth that gets perpetuated by fans and sometimes by devs (like in this situation.)
Right. Even as a big fan of Shenmue I will agree with this. Mizzurna Falls was an early example of open world gaming (which was released in Japan only, so it's far lesser known). Shenmue was in development from the mid 90s so it was definitely a newer concept back then but development took so long by the time it came out there was other examples of games with explorable worlds with NPCs. The difference with Shenmue's influence was with how it developed its world and systems, which were revolutionary for the time (and in some ways still ahead of games today) such as being able to call people on phone lines, talk with evry NPC and examine every object found in the drawers and on shelves, the weather system, mini games (and having games within a game was definitely mindblowing back then, especially the arcade games), the AI of NPCs having their own schedules programmed in, the graphics/aesthetic, the beat em up mechanics being actually good in a 3D brawler for a change, the QTE system being far better than any that came before it, the music that changed organically, just the way it captured the life of the 80s, it was very much a slice of life game of the 80s in Japan (and China in the sequel). It wasn't because it was the first but because it was the first one to bring everything together and done with more of a sense of realism. Modern day settings weren't that common either (there was a lot of fantasy games back then, so to see such a big budget adventure game was different).

AM2 were legends back then too, so that helped.
 

CobaltBlu

Member
Nov 29, 2017
191
I don't understand why people who don't like Shenmue are so fascinated with it. If people like something you don't like it's okay guys.
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,380
Figured he would do this. Pretty wack. Coming from a guy who loves Deadly Premonition but talks negatively about S3 graphics.

Shenmue 3 is a good game. Not to mention he's factual wrong on a lot of things.
That's true.

Everytime I hear Jim shittalk Shenmue, I remember that Deadly Premonition is one of his favourite games.

He's also very factually incorrect as you and others pointed out, and it's good that he's no longer a journalist because he clearly doesn't care to fact check and that shit shouldn't fly especially when it comes to objective reporting.
 

J75

Member
Sep 29, 2018
1,559
I don't understand why people who don't like Shenmue are so fascinated with it. If people like something you don't like it's okay guys.
I was always brought up to simply ignore things you dislike and focus on what brings you joy because life is too short for this shit. 🤷‍♀️
 

stat84

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
915
No way Waterworld is a bad movie.I watched it like 10 times growing up and i loved it
 

Luckett_X

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,200
Leeds, UK
This is another example of Jim feeling obligated to make another negative video because its what his audience demands of him. Dance monkey, dance.

Jim Sterling is the Jack Thompson of Youtubers.
 

lowmelody

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,354
Does Jim have an account on Era? If there are factual inaccuracies he should amend them. A niche game like this has it hard enough without falsehoods piled on top, intended or not.
 

Akileese

Member
Oct 25, 2017
735
So serious question here. How do we gauge traditional market performance with backer performance? Shenmue made around 80k sales upfront through it's backer process. Shouldn't those be counted as day one sales? I think we all knew Shenmue was fairly niche and rooted in nostalgia, but once you combine those two numbers, it paints a picture that's much more in line with what people expected.
 

ianpm31

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,698
So serious question here. How do we gauge traditional market performance with backer performance? Shenmue made around 80k sales upfront through it's backer process. Shouldn't those be counted as day one sales? I think we all knew Shenmue was fairly niche and rooted in nostalgia, but once you combine those two numbers, it paints a picture that's much more in line with what people expected.
Supposedly Shenmue 3 had a total budget of 12 million. You already have around 7 to 8 million coming from backers + Shibuya productions which leaves 4-5 million on Deep Silvers end. Shenmue 3 will EASILY make up that and more between Epic deal (which most likely went to Deep Silver) + future Steam release + PS4 sales + DLC.
 

Sidebuster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
818
California
Seems like the video is about Sterling taking issue with how the money was spent making the game. The disassociation with how much money the developers got with the quality of the product.

I understand what he's saying, but it doesn't seem to lead to any conclusion other than, "isn't it strange Shenmue III got all this funding but it turned out the way it did?
 

Wil Grieve

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,480
"We're happy to announce that we're willing to make Shenmue 3 as long as millions of you guys give us your money first."
 

Zombine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,110
So, I think he’s making an argument on behalf of the fans who kickstarted it, but a lot of the fans seem to be happy with the product so I don’t know if the waterworld comparison is entirely accurate. I’m anti-Kickstarter myself, but if people like what they got then...success?
 
Oct 30, 2017
2,313
"We're happy to announce that we're willing to make Shenmue 3 as long as millions of you guys give us your money first."
Because they couldn’t get the money to make it for 15 years and thousands of fans basically begged and pleaded with Yu Suzuki to make a new Shenmue, which Kickstarter made possible . Why is that an issue?
 
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♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,267
Think I'll pass on watching this one, Shenmue has some great things and charm about it but it feels like an easy target, he's free to his opinion but I find these kind of videos tedious. Considering all the cynical and heavy topics Jim usually discuses, it's just nice to to see a creator like Yu Suzuki wanting to make its fans happy, more than anything else.
 

residentgrigo

Banned
Oct 30, 2019
1,413
Germany
It's interesting that the man who loves to hands out near perfect scores to Yakuza games (those are fine to good) has zero love for Shenmue but neither do i. Shenmue 2 is fine if I consider that its a Dreamcast game but that´s it. The Waterworld comparison doesn´t hold water though, as it famously made a profit:
https://deadline.com/2013/08/isnt-it-time-to-take-waterworld-off-the-all-time-flop-list-557797/

I look forward to the inevitable Jimquisition on Star Citizen, aka the last gleaming of crowdsourcing games. That one is a legit scam that went to court a few times and got in the scopes of actual journalists. Shenmue 3´s mediocre state and its lack of success are peanuts by comparison. It also came out in a timely enough manner.
I wouldn´t even be surprised if a 4th game comes out someday but it equally won´t end anything. Our some weird CG-anime if Yu decides to go into movies. 5/10?

Yu Suzuki should have retired when the Saturn came or should have turned into only a producer. He absolutely lost it during that generation. You know, the one that gave us the original Virtua Fighter related vision of Shenmue. Those graphics were insane for a 5th gen game:

PS: I don´t hate the Saturn. The Dreamcast can fuck off though.
 
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Jun 12, 2018
310
I don't understand why people who don't like Shenmue are so fascinated with it. If people like something you don't like it's okay guys.
This x1000

I was always brought up to simply ignore things you dislike and focus on what brings you joy because life is too short for this shit. 🤷‍♀️
And this x1000

There are definitely those who dont like the series and are yet fixated on it. Like really fixated on it and need to express it at every opportunity.

Its okay if ppl love a franchise or love whatever. If it bothers these ppl so much, im guessing there's more going on with them personally than a videogame.

Dunno. Life is too short. Play what you want and enjoy. No need to crap on other people's interests.
 

♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,267
yea, I'm gonna pass on this one, I like Jim and can respect that he doesn't like the series, but this just seems like he has a massive hate boner on this one.

Just out of curiosity, does he still perpetuate that idea of Yakuza and Shenmue being the same or at the very least (from the last time) Shenmue no longer needing to exist because Yakuza is around?
Oh jesus, he brings up the shit Yakuza comparison again? Shenmue is like a life sim compared to that, the comparison is embarrassing. I'm glad I'm passing on watching this. BTW Shenmue 3 being a flop is like No Shit Sherlock, fans were just have to get a third game with care put into it. It hard to feel cynical, considering how many odds this game defied and yeah it's a goofy game but the world is great to chill out in, which is such a different experience from thugs everywhere in Yakuza.

Funny thing is I quite like Jim, just feel the series is an easy target and it's boring to jump on it.
 

Garlic

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,029
So I’m not a film buff, but saying that Waterworld lost $90M the year it came out, then eked out a ~4% “profit” over the course of eighteen years doesn’t make it sound very successful.
No one's saying Waterworld is massive success, but for years it was bagged on as one of the biggest bombs of all time, which isn't even remotely true (people mainly liked seeing Costner being taken down a peg). Hell, it wasn't even the biggest boat-based flop of 1995, which would be Cutthroat Island.
 
Oct 30, 2017
2,313
It's interesting that the man who loves to hands out near perfect scores to Yakuza games (those are fine to good) has zero love for Shenmue but neither do i. Shenmue 2 is fine if I consider that its a Dreamcast game but that´s it. The Waterworld comparison doesn´t hold water though, as it famously made a profit:
https://deadline.com/2013/08/isnt-it-time-to-take-waterworld-off-the-all-time-flop-list-557797/

I look forward to the inevitable Jimquisition on Star Citizen, aka the last gleaming of crowdsourcing games. That one is a legit scam that went to court a few times and got in the scopes of actual journalists. Shenmue 3´s mediocre state and its lack of success are peanuts by comparison. It also came out in a timely enough manner. I wouldn´t even be surprised if there will be 4th game someday. Our some weird CG-anime if Yu decides to go into movies. 5/10?

Yu Suzuki should have retired when the Saturn came or should have turned into a producer only. He absolutely lost it during that generation. You know, the one that gave us the original Virtua Fighter related vision of Shenmue. Those graphics were insane for a 5th gen game:
PS: I don´t hate the Saturn. The Dreamcast can fuck off though.
He basically did retire after the Dreamcast died. He made Shenmue 3 because fans basically begged him for it for two decades.

But no, he didn't lose it. He went all in on a series you don't care for, but he certainly made one or two classics during the same time period:

Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution (2002) (Executive Director)

F355 Challenge: Passione Rossa (2000)
 
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Donos

Member
Nov 15, 2017
3,100
a bit OT but Waterworld was one of those flicks you always could run on the side when it came. Inofficial Mad Max on water spin off. Watched it so many times.
 

residentgrigo

Banned
Oct 30, 2019
1,413
Germany
Yz Suzuki started his own studio, directed a few games and had other canceled after both his Shenmues bombed though the floor bell wood's jet cola.
Jim covers all of that. Some of you should maybe watch/read the sources of the topics you decide to participate it.

Forgot: Shenmue is better than Waterworld. Somehow... but it is.
 

Hailinel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,217
People mostly remember Waterworld being a megabomb because of its very real production issues related to water-based sets and practical effects that made it difficult to become profitable in theaters outside of being a blockbuster hit. It wasn't a cheap film to produce, but it was an OK film in the end. Not terrible or great, just OK.

People just loved to blow the scope of its failure out of proportion.
 
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shadowman16

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,812
Despite being a huge fan of the earlier games I can't bring myself to buy this, even at the 35 dollar price Best Buy is offering. The fighting - which was one of my favorite things about the franchise - looks like such a step backwards.

I'll probably get this at 20 bucks eventually but regardless, I'm glad the hardcore fanbase is happy with this game.

Honestly, that's all that really matters.
Understandable. It is a somewhat weird change. For what its worth, once the fighting "clicks" I think its actually kinda good in its own right. It doesn't really let you button bash on higher difficulties and instead seems to rely on you reading opponents and dodging/countering with your own attack. I definitely prefer the old combat better for sure, but I'm actually liking 3's combat now that I've had time to adapt to it. I still miss certain moves though :(
 

♡♪!?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,267
This week he has a rant about a niche series that was lucky to get its fans a third game, next week he's complaining about EA trying to get children into giving their parents credit's card. He can talk about what he wants but it's amazing and jarring how different the subject matter can vary.
 

ghibli99

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,555
USA
That's fine by me. Speaking to Waterworld specifically, I remember how its production was more infamous than the film itself (my uncle worked at the hotel bar where the cast/crew were staying in Hawaii, so he heard it all). When the movie is on TV, while I don't think it's a classic by any stretch, I still enjoy watching it, and I think the premise is a terrific one that only grows in relevance with each passing decade.
 
Oct 30, 2017
2,313
Yz Suzuki started his own studio, directed a few games and had other canceled after both his Shenmues bombed though the floor bell wood's jet cola.
Jim covers all of that. Some of you should maybe watch/read the sources of the topics you decide to participate it.

Forgot: Shenmue is better than Waterworld. Somehow... but it is.
I don't need to watch someone else tell me "facts" about a career I've followed very closely, but I did watch the video. He got a lot wrong, and some things correct. Nice dose of condescension, though; thanks! Why are you ignoring VF4? Y'know, the fighting game that was ported to the PS2 and is considered by many to be the greatest 3D fighting game of all time? Seems to be at odds with "Yu Suzuki is a failure because I don't like Shenmue!"
 
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