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ResetEra Moderation Staff is Fucking Up Beyond Belief on LGBT+ Issues

gosublime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,294
I don't have much to add this thread but I'd like to say that I have learnt a lot more about these issues from reading threads like these. I don't often post in them as I feel like I should just listen and try to understand the issues raised. If I have a question I've usually read the rest of the thread and it's been answered, or googled it and got it that way.

I've changed some of my ways of thinking and responding to lots of issues because of threads like these and it worries me that people feel they can't post because of others as that is completely against what I thought this board was about.
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
2,410
I don't have much to add this thread but I'd like to say that I have learnt a lot more about these issues from reading threads like these. I don't often post in them as I feel like I should just listen and try to understand the issues raised. If I have a question I've usually read the rest of the thread and it's been answered, or googled it and got it that way.

I've changed some of my ways of thinking and responding to lots of issues because of threads like these and it worries me that people feel they can't post because of others as that is completely against what I thought this board was about.
Most of the time questions that are asked in good faith are answered and people don't actually get banned. They tend to only get banned when they try to hide their transphobia behind "questions asking". And sometimes they don't get banned at all even when they're transphobic.
 

gosublime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,294
Most of the time questions that are asked in good faith are answered and people don't actually get banned. They tend to only get banned when they try to hide their transphobia behind "questions asking". And sometimes they don't get banned at all even when they're transphobic.
Yeah - I was trying to say that some of the posters here have been fantastic and I've learnt tons from just reading their threads and answers to questions. If you can't do that and get the basic information before asking the more complex questions than that is pretty revealing in itself of your intentions.

Sorry if that didn't come across fully!
 
Oct 25, 2017
862
United Kingdom
Not really relevant to the point I was making. But does provide a nice example of the problem being highlighted here.
They were being sarcastic for sure and I do use google to get a general idea about subjects I know little about but like I said in an earlier post I find that what people say way more informative than just a cold statement on google, so from time to time I may well ask a question but I fully understand that no one owes me an answer and I may well be told to get lost. So far I think the only thing I have asked was about terfs and someone I forget who very kindly answered me.
 

Primethius

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,058
I've heard multiple site staff members, past and present, say that they want this forum to be a safe space for minorities. I believe them when they say that. But I don't think this can be a safe space when the burden of informing and educating fuckwits who may or may not be sincere constantly falls on said minorities.

Every day there is a thread about sexual assault or police brutality or a trans person being thrown out of a bathroom or a gay couple being denied wedding reception services or a Muslim banned from traveling in the US, and every day those threads get filled with idiots who don't get the fucking issue, and every day the overriding sentiment among members of the affected groups is that they're sick and tired of having to explain and justify their existence to these idiots who don't get the issue or understand the anger. I believe the reason this keeps happening is because the site staff is too lenient as it pertains to these kinds of issues. They seem to believe that people should be given a chance to correct and advance their stunted or backwards attitudes on these issues, so they dish out temporary punishments in the form of warnings and one month bans. I don't believe this should be the place for correcting these attitudes. I think this should be the place where you either come with the correct attitude or get the fuck out.

Oh, you can manage to simultaneously participate in three fantasy football leagues at once but you can't comprehend the statistical improbability of a woman lying about being sexually assaulted? You can memorize ten-hit combos for a dozen Tekken characters but you don't understand the effects of hormone treatment on bone and muscle density on trans athletes? You can follow the convoluted as fuck Kingdom Hearts story line but you don't get what it actually means when people say fuck all cops? You lying pieces of shit.

Warnings and one month bans are kiddie punishments for kiddie shit. Give those to people who port beg or whine about the Epic Game Store or whatever the fuck trivial shit that doesn't really matter. When somebody comes into a thread on some all lives matter shit or talking about they're not comfortable sharing a bathroom with a trans person - six months for the first ban. Second ban for a similar offense is permanent. If they claim to just be asking questions or trying to have an honest debate, they can type those questions into Google and find their answers there during their time off from the forum, or they can go back to jacking off to whatever Atelier fantasy bullshit with their Dorito crusted hands. The site staff needs to be swift and decisive with the punishments and stop trying to balance civility against justice. And if the worry is that people will be afraid to say anything in those topics with harsher moderation, good - more of you motherfuckers need to learn to shut up about certain things and just listen.

Site staff: You do a thankless job, you do it for free, and you're constantly getting shit for it by the people you're trying to serve. I imagine you're often incredibly frustrated by what goes on here. I think a solution for your benefit and the benefit of these minority groups is to stop wasting time trying to discern bad faith actors from sincere ignorance and actually try create a real safe space for once. If these suggestions sound ridiculous or draconian or whatever, so what; all these minority groups have had to learn lessons about what they can and can't do, where they can and can't go, what they can and can't have in the world. The bigoted fuckheads can take that lesson too and realize everything ain't for them either. There are other forums they can enjoy where they can say whatever the fuck the want free of reprisal.
Agreed fully. Great post!

To add, it also matters how you ask questions. Some members of a community might be willing to answer questions but no one, no one, wants to spend time figuring out if you are a bad faith actor or not.

So if your question can be interpreted as such, even remotely, ask yourself why, use that as a point of self-reflection and be better.

You cannot expect minority folks to travel across the country barefoot to your very doorstep to coddle you if you can't even take the smallest of steps and the briefest of moments necessary to seperate yourself from the trash that relies on ignorance as a defence mechanism.

If you sound like a bad faith actor, you're going to get treated like one, and you'll only infuriate the community that you barged into acting like a moron.
 

Nairume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,676
While that would be nice for a lot of people on the site, where do you draw the line? Acephobia was new to me and reading discussion about it from questions that were asked helped me learn a lot more about it then a lazy google search would have.
The line would be up to the discretion of the moderation staff, of course, but at least some discretion is better than almost nothing at all. This thread has a perfect example of it, when a poster who was very blatantly JAQing off when they were grossly being transphobic and denying another poster's identity only ended up receiving a week long ban, which then allowed them to come back in time to shit this thread up with their JAQing off again. They are banned again now, but that they even had the chance to come back from that first ban and that it took all day and people calling them out on it for the staff to take action on them again says that things need to be better.

Likewise, we have another example in this thread of another poster that numerous people have called out on their history of "just asking questions" in poor faith in threads like this, but they keep sliding under the radar because they are just sly enough to keep decorum so the general lack of discretion means that staff never reads between the lines on their posts.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,906
Brooklyn
I've heard multiple site staff members, past and present, say that they want this forum to be a safe space for minorities. I believe them when they say that. But I don't think this can be a safe space when the burden of informing and educating fuckwits who may or may not be sincere constantly falls on said minorities.

Every day there is a thread about sexual assault or police brutality or a trans person being thrown out of a bathroom or a gay couple being denied wedding reception services or a Muslim banned from traveling in the US, and every day those threads get filled with idiots who don't get the fucking issue, and every day the overriding sentiment among members of the affected groups is that they're sick and tired of having to explain and justify their existence to these idiots who don't get the issue or understand the anger. I believe the reason this keeps happening is because the site staff is too lenient as it pertains to these kinds of issues. They seem to believe that people should be given a chance to correct and advance their stunted or backwards attitudes on these issues, so they dish out temporary punishments in the form of warnings and one month bans. I don't believe this should be the place for correcting these attitudes. I think this should be the place where you either come with the correct attitude or get the fuck out.

Oh, you can manage to simultaneously participate in three fantasy football leagues at once but you can't comprehend the statistical improbability of a woman lying about being sexually assaulted? You can memorize ten-hit combos for a dozen Tekken characters but you don't understand the effects of hormone treatment on bone and muscle density on trans athletes? You can follow the convoluted as fuck Kingdom Hearts story line but you don't get what it actually means when people say fuck all cops? You lying pieces of shit.

Warnings and one month bans are kiddie punishments for kiddie shit. Give those to people who port beg or whine about the Epic Game Store or whatever the fuck trivial shit that doesn't really matter. When somebody comes into a thread on some all lives matter shit or talking about they're not comfortable sharing a bathroom with a trans person - six months for the first ban. Second ban for a similar offense is permanent. If they claim to just be asking questions or trying to have an honest debate, they can type those questions into Google and find their answers there during their time off from the forum, or they can go back to jacking off to whatever Atelier fantasy bullshit with their Dorito crusted hands. The site staff needs to be swift and decisive with the punishments and stop trying to balance civility against justice. And if the worry is that people will be afraid to say anything in those topics with harsher moderation, good - more of you motherfuckers need to learn to shut up about certain things and just listen.

Site staff: You do a thankless job, you do it for free, and you're constantly getting shit for it by the people you're trying to serve. I imagine you're often incredibly frustrated by what goes on here. I think a solution for your benefit and the benefit of these minority groups is to stop wasting time trying to discern bad faith actors from sincere ignorance and actually try create a real safe space for once. If these suggestions sound ridiculous or draconian or whatever, so what; all these minority groups have had to learn lessons about what they can and can't do, where they can and can't go, what they can and can't have in the world. The bigoted fuckheads can take that lesson too and realize everything ain't for them either. There are other forums they can enjoy where they can say whatever the fuck the want free of reprisal.
I agree with this. Sometimes i feel the mods and admins are too soft on people. I see people get banned and already have accumulated bans for like offenses in the past before they're permanent banned.
 

Windrunner

Straight Outta Nowhere
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
4,372
The line would be up to the discretion of the moderation staff, of course, but at least some discretion is better than almost nothing at all. This thread has a perfect example of it, when a poster who was very blatantly JAQing off when they were grossly being transphobic and denying another poster's identity only ended up receiving a week long ban, which then allowed them to come back in time to shit this thread up with their JAQing off again. They are banned again now, but that they even had the chance to come back from that first ban and that it took all day and people calling them out on it for the staff to take action on them again says that things need to be better.
Said poster (Son Lamar) was banned two hours after his post so it did not take all day. We are volunteers who give up our free time when we are able to and have been dealing with an increased volume of reports as of late however even on a quiet day it's not reasonable to expect immediate action on reports, especially for duration pending bans which typically involves a thorough examination of past infractions and of their posting history to facilitate the review.

As for general commentary on ban duration, this is currently under consideration and we will hopefully have more to announce soon.
 

roboleon

random guy on the internet
Member
Oct 26, 2017
349
Imagine people giving up their spare time, volunteering to keep conversation civil on the internet, not being 100% perfect 100% of the time
 

Mewn

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,174
UK
Imagine people giving up their spare time, volunteering to keep conversation civil on the internet, not being 100% perfect 100% of the time
Imagine their errors, personal or systemic, causing hurt and upset to people on a forum founded to be a better place on exactly these sorts of issues.

What exactly were you aiming for with this post?
 

Nothing Loud

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,714
They seem to believe that people should be given a chance to correct and advance their stunted or backwards attitudes on these issues, so they dish out temporary punishments in the form of warnings and one month bans. I don't believe this should be the place for correcting these attitudes. I think this should be the place where you either come with the correct attitude or get the fuck out.

Oh, you can manage to simultaneously participate in three fantasy football leagues at once but you can't comprehend the statistical improbability of a woman lying about being sexually assaulted? You can memorize ten-hit combos for a dozen Tekken characters but you don't understand the effects of hormone treatment on bone and muscle density on trans athletes? You can follow the convoluted as fuck Kingdom Hearts story line but you don't get what it actually means when people say fuck all cops? You lying pieces of shit.
Yeah sorry I don’t agree with this take and I don’t think you need to permanently or long-term ban everyone who doesn’t have the right info 100% of the time on sight. I’m in a same sex marriage as a bisexual, and if it wasn’t for forums like this and GAF, I never would have gotten to where I am. I certainly don’t understand (I’m just ignorant on this topic) hormone issues on bones or muscles with trans athletes, but according to this post I don’t deserve to be here. Of course, I understand that later in your post you imply this is more about people asking questions in threads about topics like that, which I tend to stay out of. I still think this take is too radical.
 

The Hermit

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
3,549
I've heard multiple site staff members, past and present, say that they want this forum to be a safe space for minorities. I believe them when they say that. But I don't think this can be a safe space when the burden of informing and educating fuckwits who may or may not be sincere constantly falls on said minorities.

Every day there is a thread about sexual assault or police brutality or a trans person being thrown out of a bathroom or a gay couple being denied wedding reception services or a Muslim banned from traveling in the US, and every day those threads get filled with idiots who don't get the fucking issue, and every day the overriding sentiment among members of the affected groups is that they're sick and tired of having to explain and justify their existence to these idiots who don't get the issue or understand the anger. I believe the reason this keeps happening is because the site staff is too lenient as it pertains to these kinds of issues. They seem to believe that people should be given a chance to correct and advance their stunted or backwards attitudes on these issues, so they dish out temporary punishments in the form of warnings and one month bans. I don't believe this should be the place for correcting these attitudes. I think this should be the place where you either come with the correct attitude or get the fuck out.

Oh, you can manage to simultaneously participate in three fantasy football leagues at once but you can't comprehend the statistical improbability of a woman lying about being sexually assaulted? You can memorize ten-hit combos for a dozen Tekken characters but you don't understand the effects of hormone treatment on bone and muscle density on trans athletes? You can follow the convoluted as fuck Kingdom Hearts story line but you don't get what it actually means when people say fuck all cops? You lying pieces of shit.

Warnings and one month bans are kiddie punishments for kiddie shit. Give those to people who port beg or whine about the Epic Game Store or whatever the fuck trivial shit that doesn't really matter. When somebody comes into a thread on some all lives matter shit or talking about they're not comfortable sharing a bathroom with a trans person - six months for the first ban. Second ban for a similar offense is permanent. If they claim to just be asking questions or trying to have an honest debate, they can type those questions into Google and find their answers there during their time off from the forum, or they can go back to jacking off to whatever Atelier fantasy bullshit with their Dorito crusted hands. The site staff needs to be swift and decisive with the punishments and stop trying to balance civility against justice. And if the worry is that people will be afraid to say anything in those topics with harsher moderation, good - more of you motherfuckers need to learn to shut up about certain things and just listen.

Site staff: You do a thankless job, you do it for free, and you're constantly getting shit for it by the people you're trying to serve. I imagine you're often incredibly frustrated by what goes on here. I think a solution for your benefit and the benefit of these minority groups is to stop wasting time trying to discern bad faith actors from sincere ignorance and actually try create a real safe space for once. If these suggestions sound ridiculous or draconian or whatever, so what; all these minority groups have had to learn lessons about what they can and can't do, where they can and can't go, what they can and can't have in the world. The bigoted fuckheads can take that lesson too and realize everything ain't for them either. There are other forums they can enjoy where they can say whatever the fuck the want free of reprisal.
If the minority is considered the bad faith actor because of cultural bias then there isn't a safe space and a potential problem for moderation. Seen it happen here. For example: a bigot says "that doesn't look like an indigenous person to me" regarding a politician who had berated an indigenous woman. The victim took the politician's comment as directed at her race. An Indigenous poster did as well. Bigot wanted to defend the politician by saying the remark wasn't directed at her race and try to make indigenous anger as faked. After a bit of exchange the indigenous poster gets banned for 'bad faith' and the bigot receives no sanction. This is after days of the indigenous person being attacked by other posters in the same thread and reporting it to the mods and the reports being ignored. The indigenous person even receiving a warning for abusing the reporting system.
In the so called 'appeal process' this moderation decision was justified by conflating it with other issues and a rationalization allowing the bigots to behave aggressively but the indigenous person has to keep their cool. Double standards.
No attention or response was given to the actual questions raised by the indigenous person. Completely ignored.

Moderation is fucking up beyond belief. They try to display well but there is definitely a poor attitude of self-righteous justification, 'we can do no wrong', and avoidance up with the moderation team when it comes to their decisions. They'll pretend to be reasonable and friendly to minorities publicly but in their private messages they are quite different to minorities as evidenced in the threatening response I received to the incident above.
 

The Kree

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,286
Yeah sorry I don’t agree with this take and I don’t think you need to permanently or long-term ban everyone who doesn’t have the right info 100% of the time on sight. I’m in a same sex marriage as a bisexual, and if it wasn’t for forums like this and GAF, I never would have gotten to where I am. I certainly don’t understand (I’m just ignorant on this topic) hormone issues on bones or muscles with trans athletes, but according to this post I don’t deserve to be here. Of course, I understand that later in your post you imply this is more about people asking questions in threads about topics like that, which I tend to stay out of. I still think this take is too radical.
So would you wait to be spoon fed an explanation by an annoyed and frustrated minority, or would you be willing to put in any effort to research the subject yourself before opening your mouth about it? Because if you think you're entitled to these explanations, that's the problem. Shutting up until you know better is always an option.
 

Nothing Loud

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,714
So would you wait to be spoon fed an explanation by an annoyed and frustrated minority, or would you be willing to put in any effort to research the subject yourself before opening your mouth about it? Because if you think you're entitled to these explanations, that's the problem.
I don’t usually post in topics I know nothing about. I lurked this topic except to say that I thought the post I quoted was too radical of a moderation implementation from my perspective.

But yes I understand minority exhaustion, I get exhausted explaining to people outside my minority group of my experiences as a Latino LGBTQ+ individual. I guess I agree that minorities don’t have to bear the burden of explaining anything while also believing that the moderation take I quoted was an extreme I think is too far.
 

Aokiji

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,022
Los Angeles
I've heard multiple site staff members, past and present, say that they want this forum to be a safe space for minorities. I believe them when they say that. But I don't think this can be a safe space when the burden of informing and educating fuckwits who may or may not be sincere constantly falls on said minorities.

Every day there is a thread about sexual assault or police brutality or a trans person being thrown out of a bathroom or a gay couple being denied wedding reception services or a Muslim banned from traveling in the US, and every day those threads get filled with idiots who don't get the fucking issue, and every day the overriding sentiment among members of the affected groups is that they're sick and tired of having to explain and justify their existence to these idiots who don't get the issue or understand the anger. I believe the reason this keeps happening is because the site staff is too lenient as it pertains to these kinds of issues. They seem to believe that people should be given a chance to correct and advance their stunted or backwards attitudes on these issues, so they dish out temporary punishments in the form of warnings and one month bans. I don't believe this should be the place for correcting these attitudes. I think this should be the place where you either come with the correct attitude or get the fuck out.

Oh, you can manage to simultaneously participate in three fantasy football leagues at once but you can't comprehend the statistical improbability of a woman lying about being sexually assaulted? You can memorize ten-hit combos for a dozen Tekken characters but you don't understand the effects of hormone treatment on bone and muscle density on trans athletes? You can follow the convoluted as fuck Kingdom Hearts story line but you don't get what it actually means when people say fuck all cops? You lying pieces of shit.

Warnings and one month bans are kiddie punishments for kiddie shit. Give those to people who port beg or whine about the Epic Game Store or whatever the fuck trivial shit that doesn't really matter. When somebody comes into a thread on some all lives matter shit or talking about they're not comfortable sharing a bathroom with a trans person - six months for the first ban. Second ban for a similar offense is permanent. If they claim to just be asking questions or trying to have an honest debate, they can type those questions into Google and find their answers there during their time off from the forum, or they can go back to jacking off to whatever Atelier fantasy bullshit with their Dorito crusted hands. The site staff needs to be swift and decisive with the punishments and stop trying to balance civility against justice. And if the worry is that people will be afraid to say anything in those topics with harsher moderation, good - more of you motherfuckers need to learn to shut up about certain things and just listen.

Site staff: You do a thankless job, you do it for free, and you're constantly getting shit for it by the people you're trying to serve. I imagine you're often incredibly frustrated by what goes on here. I think a solution for your benefit and the benefit of these minority groups is to stop wasting time trying to discern bad faith actors from sincere ignorance and actually try create a real safe space for once. If these suggestions sound ridiculous or draconian or whatever, so what; all these minority groups have had to learn lessons about what they can and can't do, where they can and can't go, what they can and can't have in the world. The bigoted fuckheads can take that lesson too and realize everything ain't for them either. There are other forums they can enjoy where they can say whatever the fuck the want free of reprisal.
I would quote this 100x if I could
 

Daysean

Member
Nov 15, 2017
2,735
Oh, you can manage to simultaneously participate in three fantasy football leagues at once but you can't comprehend the statistical improbability of a woman lying about being sexually assaulted? You can memorize ten-hit combos for a dozen Tekken characters but you don't understand the effects of hormone treatment on bone and muscle density on trans athletes? You can follow the convoluted as fuck Kingdom Hearts story line but you don't get what it actually means when people say fuck all cops? You lying pieces of shit.
This entire post was amazing, but this part right here is that good shit
 

Windrunner

Straight Outta Nowhere
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
4,372
I've heard multiple site staff members, past and present, say that they want this forum to be a safe space for minorities. I believe them when they say that. But I don't think this can be a safe space when the burden of informing and educating fuckwits who may or may not be sincere constantly falls on said minorities.

Every day there is a thread about sexual assault or police brutality or a trans person being thrown out of a bathroom or a gay couple being denied wedding reception services or a Muslim banned from traveling in the US, and every day those threads get filled with idiots who don't get the fucking issue, and every day the overriding sentiment among members of the affected groups is that they're sick and tired of having to explain and justify their existence to these idiots who don't get the issue or understand the anger. I believe the reason this keeps happening is because the site staff is too lenient as it pertains to these kinds of issues. They seem to believe that people should be given a chance to correct and advance their stunted or backwards attitudes on these issues, so they dish out temporary punishments in the form of warnings and one month bans. I don't believe this should be the place for correcting these attitudes. I think this should be the place where you either come with the correct attitude or get the fuck out.

Oh, you can manage to simultaneously participate in three fantasy football leagues at once but you can't comprehend the statistical improbability of a woman lying about being sexually assaulted? You can memorize ten-hit combos for a dozen Tekken characters but you don't understand the effects of hormone treatment on bone and muscle density on trans athletes? You can follow the convoluted as fuck Kingdom Hearts story line but you don't get what it actually means when people say fuck all cops? You lying pieces of shit.

Warnings and one month bans are kiddie punishments for kiddie shit. Give those to people who port beg or whine about the Epic Game Store or whatever the fuck trivial shit that doesn't really matter. When somebody comes into a thread on some all lives matter shit or talking about they're not comfortable sharing a bathroom with a trans person - six months for the first ban. Second ban for a similar offense is permanent. If they claim to just be asking questions or trying to have an honest debate, they can type those questions into Google and find their answers there during their time off from the forum, or they can go back to jacking off to whatever Atelier fantasy bullshit with their Dorito crusted hands. The site staff needs to be swift and decisive with the punishments and stop trying to balance civility against justice. And if the worry is that people will be afraid to say anything in those topics with harsher moderation, good - more of you motherfuckers need to learn to shut up about certain things and just listen.

Site staff: You do a thankless job, you do it for free, and you're constantly getting shit for it by the people you're trying to serve. I imagine you're often incredibly frustrated by what goes on here. I think a solution for your benefit and the benefit of these minority groups is to stop wasting time trying to discern bad faith actors from sincere ignorance and actually try create a real safe space for once. If these suggestions sound ridiculous or draconian or whatever, so what; all these minority groups have had to learn lessons about what they can and can't do, where they can and can't go, what they can and can't have in the world. The bigoted fuckheads can take that lesson too and realize everything ain't for them either. There are other forums they can enjoy where they can say whatever the fuck the want free of reprisal.
This post has been pasted into the staff Discord and talked about at length today.

I just want to say that we hear you and that discussion regarding ban lengths is underway. We will have more to say soon but in the meantime, any constructive feedback such as this is very welcome.
 

Leo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,977
Is there more against royalan besides that post?

Because if there wasn't anything else, I don't think it's fair to dogpile and call him a bigot for that only. Seems to me more of an ocasion to debate and discuss, because he is speaking about a sensible matter for him too, and as a gay man I can understand to some degree where he is coming from.

If there were other incidents besides that one that I'm not aware of, please ignore me.
 
Last edited:

echoshifting

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,496
The Negative Zone
Is there more against royalan besides that post?

Because if there wasn't anything else, I don't think it's fair to dogpile and call him a bigger for that only. Seems to me more of an ocasion to debate and discuss, because he is speaking about a sensible matter for him too, and as a gay man I can understand to some degree where he is coming from.

If there were other incidents besides that one that I'm not aware of, please ignore me.
He said in the other thread that his views have evolved since making the post.
 

Maximus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,096
This post has been pasted into the staff Discord and talked about at length today.

I just want to say that we hear you and that discussion regarding ban lengths is underway. We will have more to say soon but in the meantime, any constructive feedback such as this is very welcome.
There’s been a lot of good dialogue here, mainly about transparency and communication from mods and admins to the community. People want to feel less of “us vs them” and more of a community. Dialogue used in posts to the community not being so condescending and tonally different would be appreciated. I’ve noticed recently there are a lot of “staff posts” in new threads to warn posters of how to talk and a lot of thread titles changed to have “see staff post”. The post you quoted seems very extreme and seems to push more towards punishing dialogue. I’m obviously not defending people being pieces of shit, but certain points in that quoted post seem extreme and I am somewhat surprised to see that is the post that’s been highlighted as being talked about (not saying you all aren’t discussing everything that’s been said over the past few days of course).
 

FairyEmpire

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,190
Probably the best suggestion I've seen so far is to have a sub-forum dedicated to discussing moderation-related things. Threads for it are closed in a matter of minutes, all matters are sent to PMs or the Contact Us form where you either get lucky and get an answer or you don't at all. I think I contacted staff 3 or 4 times so far, twice I got an answer: one where the mod/admin itself initiated contact, and once when I got an answer several weeks after the issue I raised. I know it's a voluntary thing and all and as such I don't expect every mod to be able to answer any question immediately, which is why a sub-forum would be a better idea. You could even limit who can see or participate in some threads if those threads talk about a specific situation: in this case, for example, making a thread only accessible to those who posted in said thread prior to the incident would make sense.

Of course it doesn't have to become a string of "why was I banned I did nothing wrong" messages where then it turns out the user used the n-word or something. Rules and care should be used well to avoid such a place to become a cesspool, and I understand why it would be hard to create that. But a lot of social themes, the Internet in general, norms: things evolve at a rapid pace in our world, and sticking to years old indications about how to moderate people is not gonna stick. It has to be an evolving concept, but for evolution to manifest in a coherent fashion, regular users of the forum should be able to openly discuss certain themes. I don't want to play the victim here as I haven't gone through one tenth of the discriminating shit others went through. But in general, transparency, open discussions, ability to talk about what we want to allow as a community and what we want to kick out should be an important step towards a better future for the board. This entire mess culminated because a sizable community on Era felt like moderation on their community has not been proper, with no viable tables to sit down at and discuss it. Had there been an area of the forum where this issue could have been discussed, things probably wouldn't have escalated like this.
 

RecLib

Member
Oct 27, 2017
612
I'm not a big poster outside of using individual game threads to ask questions that google hasn't gotten for me, or to ask specific things while avoiding spoilers. I also post in the women's perspective on gaming thread every now and then. That's about it.

I don't feel comfortable posting about who I am in a lot of places on this forum, because I am a lesbian woman. The lack of real moderation against homophobic/sexist posters is very glaring to me. I can't imagine the levels of bullshit our trans posters sound like they are putting up with constantly in their threads.

I had originally intended this forum to be the place where I would be very out about being a lesbian and all that stuff, but the lack of any real punishment for bad faith posters has lead me to only stay in pretty much one tiny bubble within this community, and not engaging in real discussion when I leave that bubble. I feel like Era was created to be a safe space and largely fails in that goal at the moment.

Harsher penalties for bigots and sea lions would be a start. And the current situation has made it clear the necessity of at the very least a SomethingAwful Leper Colony style ban database, in addition to open ban discussion threads.
I'm not a big member of this community so my knowledge of the mod team isn't great, but it also sounds from hearing people talk in this thread that a much greater level of diversity among the moderation team would help a lot too.
 

Wookieomg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
410
Oklahoma
On the subject of not indulging bad faith actors shitting up threads with “just asking questions”, would it perhaps be pertinent to create some kind of a resource thread (sorry if this already exists and I just don’t know about it!) for people uninformed about some of these issues/subjects who genuinely want to understand better?

It could provide information and understanding all under the resetera roof, a one thread catch all that would do away with having to constantly deal with wondering if the inquisitive member is secretly an asshole or if their intent is pure. Just a thought!
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,602
I've heard multiple site staff members, past and present, say that they want this forum to be a safe space for minorities. I believe them when they say that. But I don't think this can be a safe space when the burden of informing and educating fuckwits who may or may not be sincere constantly falls on said minorities.

...
I just wanted to cosign this post and add that I think making bans more visible to other users along with some more detailed ban reasons could make for a good way for users to learn why other people will catch a ban talking about a particular subject and hopefully avoid it. I'm imagining some kind of publically visible list of bans that should be used as an example of how not to post.

I feel like a big issue with moderation is that people always come into sensitive threads with the same bullshit and I would bet that at least of them are just being normal ignorant rather than purely malicious posters.
 

bulbasort

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
162
On the subject of not indulging bad faith actors shitting up threads with “just asking questions”, would it perhaps be pertinent to create some kind of a resource thread (sorry if this already exists and I just don’t know about it!) for people uninformed about some of these issues/subjects who genuinely want to understand better?

It could provide information and understanding all under the resetera roof, a one thread catch all that would do away with having to constantly deal with wondering if the inquisitive member is secretly an asshole or if their intent is pure. Just a thought!
These have existed before. They tend to get a little bit of attention (people saying "Thanks! I'll look through this later.") and then quickly fall away from the front page.
 

echoshifting

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,496
The Negative Zone
These have existed before. They tend to get a little bit of attention (people saying "Thanks! I'll look through this later.") and then quickly fall away from the front page.
I feel like we should have a sub-forum for these kinds of threads. Be very restrictive of how many threads are allowed in there, but it would improve these discussions so much if we had a stash of such resources readily available.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,602
These have existed before. They tend to get a little bit of attention (people saying "Thanks! I'll look through this later.") and then quickly fall away from the front page.
Yeah, I don't think a dedicated thread is the best way forward for this kind of stuff since they need constant posts to be visible by their nature. If there was just a standalone locked thread filled with links or some other kind of static page that could be linked to in ban messages or something I think it'd be better.
 

Papa Satanás

Member
Oct 25, 2017
680
no
Just ask for people to volunteer to front these questions. The main page in an OT can indicate who those people are and how to contact them. If people are just curious, great, they'll ask one of the volunteers.

Chances are if they're just looking to troll, they're not gonna bother with one person. They want a little audience.

People coming in with questions appropriate for a volunteer can be directed to the OT and go from there.
 

jviggy43

Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,713
it’s not a summary of the events of the past days, just a general little reflection about what a shitty job it is to moderate video game forums - try your best, get shit; repeat forever
Except this really has nothing to do with the current situation.

Just ask for people to volunteer to front these questions. The main page in an OT can indicate who those people are and how to contact them. If people are just curious, great, they'll ask one of the volunteers.

Chances are if they're just looking to troll, they're not gonna bother with one person. They want a little audience.

People coming in with questions appropriate for a volunteer can be directed to the OT and go from there.
This is a good idea.
 

Lord of Ostia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,049
Is there more against royalan besides that post?

Because if there wasn't anything else, I don't think it's fair to dogpile and call him a bigot for that only. Seems to me more of an ocasion to debate and discuss, because he is speaking about a sensible matter for him too, and as a gay man I can understand to some degree where he is coming from.

If there were other incidents besides that one that I'm not aware of, please ignore me.
He's not a bigot, he's already apologized and clarified that he no longer believes what he said. That's all that was necessary on that front, but his old comment wasn't even the cause of this whole situation in the first place.
 

SweetBellic

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,612
I think a solution for your benefit and the benefit of these minority groups is to stop wasting time trying to discern bad faith actors from sincere ignorance and actually try create a real safe space for once. If these suggestions sound ridiculous or draconian or whatever, so what; all these minority groups have had to learn lessons about what they can and can't do, where they can and can't go, what they can and can't have in the world. The bigoted fuckheads can take that lesson too and realize everything ain't for them either. There are other forums they can enjoy where they can say whatever the fuck the want free of reprisal.
But sincere ignorance has a place on a discussion board, which should be a safe space for posing questions in good faith. Gatekeeping the forum from the sincerely ignorant (as frustrating as they can be at times) means less discussion, less learning, less growth, etc. A Google search isn't an effective or efficient means of learning for everyone. Many people learn better from discussion and dialogue, which is why Q&A interaction has been a pillar of pedagogy for millennia. A discussion board should always be a place where people feel welcome to come get informed on a variety of news and issues, not a place reserved solely for the informed.

An alternative solution would be to moderate the Hangouts subforums as you suggest as a sort of safe space from questions and discussion, while the standard subforums can be moderated as a safe space for questions and discussion. While more work for the mods, this seems like it would be the best of both worlds for the Era community.
 

TheFurizzlyBear

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
954
Just got caught up with the discussion that happened while I was asleep. I want to say thanks to any and all who take time to talk about issues that affect their own minority groups. I agree with the sentiment behind The Kree's post. As a cis white male myself, I've learned a lot from just shutting up and listening. I'm still learning too, up till recently I didn't see the problem with asking "genuine" questions. Now I do (or at least think I do). Not only do people in these groups have to answer the same questions, thread after thread, day after day, month after month and year after year, but a lot of the time the "questions" aren't questions, they are challenges. You may not even realise that your question is a challenge. Instead of taking their initial word at face value you are challenging these minority groups to prove themselves to you for the sake of your education. When in reality 99 times out of 100 to attempt to understand you just need know that they are people just like you and you will never truly be able to understand since you have never had to deal with the issues they have. When these groups tell us something, we need to shut up, listen and if you have a question really take the time and think about if it's an actual question or a challenge. The only question mod staff should be asking is what they can do for TransEra to make this place better. Maybe what they say makes it harder to be a mod but so what. I can only imagine how hard it is to be a trans person but that ain't a choice. Being a mod is a choice.
 

Chaos Legion

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,854
Would it be helpful to have an LGBTQ sub forum, where these resource and informational threads are pinned (hell even an "ask a question thread" as well) and explicit guidelines regarding a zero policy regarding the enforcement of moderation within that sub forum is completely aware?

It might allow some of you all to engage more and feel safer, while limiting bad faith actors (who would truly be obvious and have no excuse if they attempt to troll)? Honestly, given how ResetEra was meant to be a safe place, it would be a distinguishing factor.

I like the transparent moderation suggestions. Hopefully your needs are all addressed in a thoughtful manner.
 

The Kree

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,286
Gatekeeping the forum from the sincerely ignorant (as frustrating as they can be at times) means less discussion, less learning, less growth, etc.
This is a lie that keeps the gates open just wide enough to let the assholes in.
A Google search isn't an effective or efficient means of learning for everyone. Many people learn better from discussion and dialogue, which is why Q&A interaction has been a pillar of pedagogy for millennia.
This is not our problem to solve and ResetEra is not a university, it's a gaming forum. They can get the shit you're suggesting elsewhere. This forum and the people who make it are under no obligation to be all things educational to all people. Being a safe space for minorities is a lofty enough goal as it is. Your pushback here is evidence of that.
 

Yerba_Sutra

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,953
Appalachia
As I already posted on the last page, there is already an "ask questions" thread for those wanting to know more about the trans community & the issues they face:
This is part of the reason people get frustrated with the questions. This info has been posted but the only post folks seem to be responding to is the one that posits a viewpoint considered extreme. Many suggestions in response to it include steps which have already been taken and which have already been highlighted here. People often come in asking questions that were answered a page or two before. Makes it seem like y'all aren't actually reading the content of this thread. Why would people respond in good faith when it doesn't seem like you're reading the damn thread?
 

Doof

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,239
Kentucky
As I already posted on the last page, there is already an "ask questions" thread for those wanting to know more about the trans community & the issues they face:
This is part of the reason people get frustrated with the questions. This info has been posted but the only post folks seem to be responding to is the one that posits a viewpoint considered extreme. Many suggestions in response to it include steps which have already been taken and which have already been highlighted here. People often come in asking questions that were answered a page or two before. Makes it seem like y'all aren't actually reading the content of this thread. Why would people respond in good faith when it doesn't seem like you're reading the damn thread?
Oh wow, I had no idea this existed, good shit! Be cool if that thread could be pinned or something, it's a great resource.
 

Primethius

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,058
But sincere ignorance has a place on a discussion board, which should be a safe space for posing questions in good faith. Gatekeeping the forum from the sincerely ignorant (as frustrating as they can be at times) means less discussion, less learning, less growth, etc. A Google search isn't an effective or efficient means of learning for everyone. Many people learn better from discussion and dialogue, which is why Q&A interaction has been a pillar of pedagogy for millennia. A discussion board should always be a place where people feel welcome to come get informed on a variety of news and issues, not a place reserved solely for the informed.

An alternative solution would be to moderate the Hangouts subforums as you suggest as a sort of safe space from questions and discussion, while the standard subforums can be moderated as a safe space for questions and discussion. While more work for the mods, this seems like it would be the best of both worlds for the Era community.
People need to learn to formulate sincere questions with actual sincerity. This is a problem that has compounded and caused part of the issue on a forum like this. Folks don't sound like they are posting in good faith because they don't even make the small effort to do that.

It can get tiring for folks to start to differentiate between who is a bad faith actor and who is a good faith one when they all sound the same.

Folks need to put in the requiste effort or be ignored completely.