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ParentERA |OT| What To Expect When You’re Not Sleeping

nekkid

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,006
I have a hard time imagining much worse. Ours was so fucking colicky the first few months. Like obviously very worth it, but doing that with a toddler sounds like a fucking horror story. We were stuck in the house and basically pacing back and forth for so long because like 75% of his awake time was hysterical crying.

And I guess I think having any child after the first will be treated differently. We're able to dote on our first to a ridiculous degree that we just could not if we had even another biological baby. First borns will always be a bit different in that regard. Obviously as they get older things level off but I would think by that time an adopted child would feel very much like my child. I dunno though.
With our second, who really was a worse sleeper, we both felt it was more manageable.

Firstly you know what you’re in for. Also, with the first we became reclusive and dwelled on the misery because we didn’t have anything else to do. We paced for hours and rocked and everything. With the second we were forced to still go out and entertain a 2yo who didn’t want to be cooped up. That really helped us just get on with things, and the feeling of day-to-day survival really wasn’t there like it was the first time round.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,732
With our second, who really was a worse sleeper, we both felt it was more manageable.

Firstly you know what you’re in for. Also, with the first we became reclusive and dwelled on the misery because we didn’t have anything else to do. We paced for hours and rocked and everything. With the second we were forced to still go out and entertain a 2yo who didn’t want to be cooped up. That really helped us just get on with things, and the feeling of day-to-day survival really wasn’t there like it was the first time round.
Interesting to hear. With ours we definitely stayed cooped up but that's because he was colicky as fuck, it was winter season during that time, and then add to that there was the two week stint in the hospital near his 2 month mark so we were pretty terrified of germs.

But really the colick was the first kicker. We see people all the time in stores and stuff with babies in carriers and we're just like what the fuck how!?

Actually the first kicker was that my wife was so severely injured in the birthing that we had to move to the first floor of our house and she needed a walker for about 2-3 weeks at least. Didn't really "fully" heal for months and months afterwards.
 

RedNalgene

Member
Oct 25, 2017
387
She doesn't nap much at home at all... at least her napping is pretty informal, if my wife takes a nap (she does regularly on the weekends) then she'll have the baby nap with her. We've been really bad at getting her to nap on her own at home, I can count like... maybe 3 or 4 times in a year that I've successfully gotten her to sleep in her crib for a nap on the weekends. She *does* nap well at daycare, which amazes me, but different setting, etc. She naps on a cot at daycare which seems crazy to me but they get it to work. I think it's just that people are always mulling about at daycare, hwere as at home in her crib she gets pissed if I put her in there even when she's tired. Otherwise when she naps if she's with me, it's in the car when I'm doing errands... she falls asleep almost instantly in the car, which is hilarious to me. I'll put her in, we'll drive to the hardware store not ~8mins down the road, and she's OUT by the time we get there. But at home? Not a chance! haha

I'm going to try the 'graduated extension' method which sounds good.

When you consoled your child, how long did you stay in her room?

My daughter is pretty good about going to sleep now... we have a routine, we do a bottle, I read her a short book, I rock her for a minute, lay her in the crib, and then I sit in her room for anywhere from 1 - 15mins, visible, usually I'll look at my phone which shines some light on my face so she can see I'm there. Usually after ~5mins or mayube up to 15mins she's put herself to sleep and I sneak out, and she's good about staying asleep for the first ~5 hours of sleep or so.
When we went in to console it was only like 30 seconds. Get in, let her know you're still there, get out.

This sounds counter-intuitive, but her NOT napping during the day may be making her overtired by the time she goes to sleep at night, making her overnight a crapshoot. Some kids drop naps at a young age, but given your kid's age and the fact that she passes out in the car and sleeps at daycare leads me to believe she's not ready to drop naps completely. Can you set a routine for her naps at home too? For instance, my daughter's nap routine is dark room, get into the sleep sack, read one book, then white noise, one song, into the crib. You may need to "sleep train" her for naps to get her into a routine.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,285
Yeah we've really struggled with naps at home. My wife is away this weekend so I'm gonna give it a chance in earnest. I'm a little better about just letting the baby be fussy or cry than my wife is who usually goes in there or finds a reason to.
 

cagey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,603
How do I get my 7 week old kid to sleep on her fucking back with regularity. Daytime naps we've resigned ourselves to stomach nap with us next to her the entire time.
 

RedNalgene

Member
Oct 25, 2017
387
How do I get my 7 week old kid to sleep on her fucking back with regularity. Daytime naps we've resigned ourselves to stomach nap with us next to her the entire time.
Magic Merlin suit will keep her on her back, though I'm not sure if they make them for kids that small. Does she sleep in a swaddle?
 

cagey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,603
Magic Merlin suit will keep her on her back, though I'm not sure if they make them for kids that small. Does she sleep in a swaddle?
She's in a Merlin actually. She's tall as hell for 7 weeks so that helps with it being just a little roomy instead of too big. She hated swaddles from about two weeks on, always tries to bust out of them.

She can't flip over yet so no concern about her staying on her back. She just doesn't like sleeping on her back. We can't get her to nap on her back without tremendous time and effort... and then she doesn't stay down long anyway. Night is rough at times but we're resigned on that front with positioning.

On her stomach, passes right the hell out. Even dedicated tummy time she'll sometimes just pass out, usually when she's overdue for a nap and wouldn't go down on her back.
 

RedNalgene

Member
Oct 25, 2017
387
We had a similar issue with our daughter at 4 months. She was in the merlin and HATED it. We eventually took her out of it because she hated it so much, and we'd put her down on her back and she'd immediately flip over. She couldn't flip from stomach to back but had some neck control so we figured she couldn't get herself into too much trouble. So for a few weeks my wife and I would instinctively wake up every few hours to make sure she didn't suffocate. It was really nerve wracking but we had to let it happen because there was literally nothing we could do to stop it. We tried reassuring ourselves with the thought that our parents always put us on our bellies to sleep and we turned out fine.

If she has decent neck control then maybe just start her on her back and let her roll over?
 

cagey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,603
She can't roll over yet. She's got good neck control, ahead of schedule there, but she can't yet roll stomach to back or vice versa.
 

nekkid

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,006
How do I get my 7 week old kid to sleep on her fucking back with regularity. Daytime naps we've resigned ourselves to stomach nap with us next to her the entire time.
We used a Sleepyhead for ours (UK - don’t know if this is something you have where you are). It helped keep them in the right position for a while, but ultimately if they wanted to sleep on their front we just gave up. Too damned stubborn!

 

Hamrub

Member
Oct 27, 2017
508
Glasgow
The Bad Kitty books are good transitioning to chapter books. They are 'comic' style but have a decent number of words and they do have chapters. Some of the humor may be over her head but she should still find plenty to amuse her. The Captain underpants books are also good, if a little crass, and with some big words.
I’ll have a look - thanks :)
 

cagey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,603
We used a Sleepyhead for ours (UK - don’t know if this is something you have where you are). It helped keep them in the right position for a while, but ultimately if they wanted to sleep on their front we just gave up. Too damned stubborn!

Ya I got one of those, different name but same concept.

I should clarify tho: she doesn't sleep on her back because she hates it, but she can't flip over, so what happens is either 1) lay her on her back and let her stay on her back awake...or 2) lay her in her stomach and she passes out and we have to stay next to her.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,732
Ya I got one of those, different name but same concept.

I should clarify tho: she doesn't sleep on her back because she hates it, but she can't flip over, so what happens is either 1) lay her on her back and let her stay on her back awake...or 2) lay her in her stomach and she passes out and we have to stay next to her.
Unfortunately parenting continues to get harder and harder. More information means more safety, but it can also make things harder. I was talking early on with my mom about sleep issues with my son and she’s just like “yeah we put you on your tummy. You liked sleeping like that.” Solved the problem. Would solve yours. But we know it’s not safe so you can’t. You just get to suffer.

A lot of shit my parents did is either straight up dangerous or not recommended anymore.

Unfortunately I don’t have a lot of advise. You can’t teach someone to be comfortable when they’re not. It could be reflux or something that you could get checked out, but in some cases there isn’t much of a fix for that either. They might just be more comfortable on their stomach. Like any human. We all have our sleep preferences.

At 7 weeks though you probably should still rock her to sleep or something. She might need more soothing and help. Rock to sleep and lay her down on her back. Laying her down awake in a position she doesn’t like clearly wouldn’t work well.
 

Rocketz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,312
Ferndale, Michigan
My son is almost 13 months and only sleeps on his stomach.

He slept in a rock and play until he started to roll and since then it's been on his stomach ever since. We lay him on his back to put him to bed and he will immediately turn to his stomach.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,732
My son is almost 13 months and only sleeps on his stomach.

He slept in a rock and play until he started to roll and since then it's been on his stomach ever since. We lay him on his back to put him to bed and he will immediately turn to his stomach.
If they can roll to their tummy on their own it’s fine, presumably because it means they have the strength to move if they get in a bad spot and can’t breathe as well.

And again with more knowledge it becomes harder to parent: it’s unsafe to have a baby sleeping in a rock and play unattended.
 

CrudeDiatribe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
946
Eastern Canada
Anyone have experience with musical instruments for toddlers? I have a few guitars in the house (cough 11 cough) and kiddo (now 28 months) likes strumming them or fiddling with effects pedals when I play electric guitar, and she loves singing and her sense or rhythm is pretty great. Last week she expressed a desire to have her own guitar. Obviously they're too big for her, so I was thinking of a Strumstick, though, since there are no wrong notes.

Just concerned she's still too young; I would love it if she took on some instrument as a hobby as she got older but I don't want to push it.
 

cagey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,603
Unfortunately parenting continues to get harder and harder. More information means more safety, but it can also make things harder. I was talking early on with my mom about sleep issues with my son and she’s just like “yeah we put you on your tummy. You liked sleeping like that.” Solved the problem. Would solve yours. But we know it’s not safe so you can’t. You just get to suffer.

A lot of shit my parents did is either straight up dangerous or not recommended anymore.

Unfortunately I don’t have a lot of advise. You can’t teach someone to be comfortable when they’re not. It could be reflux or something that you could get checked out, but in some cases there isn’t much of a fix for that either. They might just be more comfortable on their stomach. Like any human. We all have our sleep preferences.

At 7 weeks though you probably should still rock her to sleep or something. She might need more soothing and help. Rock to sleep and lay her down on her back. Laying her down awake in a position she doesn’t like clearly wouldn’t work well.
This rings very true. We've had to politely decline all the advice received from family members one or two generations older than us.

From what we've observed, it's definitely a sleeping preference. I feel bad because I get it! I can't sleep on my back naturally either. We make sure to put her down after she's conked out in our arms, but her reflex kicks in lightning quick and then she's awake again.

We're trying to avoid use of the Magic Merlin Stay Puft Marshmellow suit during the day to avoid overreliance on it, and to preserve any association she may have with the suit with night time to ensure she's sleeping at night, but it's trending towards that changing.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,424
Anyone have experience with musical instruments for toddlers? I have a few guitars in the house (cough 11 cough) and kiddo (now 28 months) likes strumming them or fiddling with effects pedals when I play electric guitar, and she loves singing and her sense or rhythm is pretty great. Last week she expressed a desire to have her own guitar. Obviously they're too big for her, so I was thinking of a Strumstick, though, since there are no wrong notes.

Just concerned she's still too young; I would love it if she took on some instrument as a hobby as she got older but I don't want to push it.
I don't know anything about guitars, but my kid (around 24 months) seems to like toy pianos. So far he's just mashing buttons on it, but he's liked them in some form or another since he was much younger. He'll watch me if I play something coherent on it. He'll also fill in kids' songs with me if I sing something and then pause and wait for him to finish it.

If she wants her own instrument then I'd say go for something simple like the thing you linked, and just supervise her when she plays it if you're worried that she'll hurt herself on it. Since she's expressing the desire herself, you're not forcing the hobby on her, but rather you're allowing her to explore her interest further.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,285
Anyone have experience with musical instruments for toddlers? I have a few guitars in the house (cough 11 cough) and kiddo (now 28 months) likes strumming them or fiddling with effects pedals when I play electric guitar, and she loves singing and her sense or rhythm is pretty great. Last week she expressed a desire to have her own guitar. Obviously they're too big for her, so I was thinking of a Strumstick, though, since there are no wrong notes.

Just concerned she's still too young; I would love it if she took on some instrument as a hobby as she got older but I don't want to push it.
When my daughter was about a year, I bought her a used half-size classical guitar for her bday just so that she could get introduced to how they make noise, strings, banging on it, etc. I bought it from a used instrument store and it was like $54, and honestly ... I kinda love the thing too haha. It goes out of tune within a day, but it's a great little half-size and the nylon strings make me feel way more comfortable than steel strings (which are less prone to snap if she's rough it). All she does now is strum with her fingers dragging them over, or hitting the strings with toys, but I think it's a good instrument.

We also have, obviously, childrens xylophones and one of those tiny ~24 key children's pianos from Melissa & Doug. It was a gift, it's shitty, I'm not really happy with it. I think it uses some sort of bell and hammer system when you strike a note and it basically came out of tune, but w/e. She likes to bang on it, and set up the little music books because that's what she sees me do.

 

Blackpuppy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,786
Hello Parent era!

So the wife and I are expecting our second child in April! We're quite excited, but this is our second, which brings me to my question: our daughter is 4, going on 5, and I was wondering if anyone has kids with that large of an age gap and how it worked out for them? I hear stories of parents have a second within 2 years or so but five?? I was just curious how the dynamic worked out between them. Our daughter is quite independent and assertive but she loves doting on our friends' babies and little children, so I'd like to think she'd be a good big sister...

Oh and I have a second question as well: I give her some screen time with the iPad but there are so many children's apps and they seem to all be filled with in app purchases. I get why ("Daddy! I want the pirate puzzles, can I have it pleaaaase pleaaaase!"), but I'd rather pay some money upfront and not have to worry about any of that.
 

emag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,735
Hello Parent era!

So the wife and I are expecting our second child in April! We're quite excited, but this is our second, which brings me to my question: our daughter is 4, going on 5, and I was wondering if anyone has kids with that large of an age gap and how it worked out for them? I hear stories of parents have a second within 2 years or so but five?? I was just curious how the dynamic worked out between them. Our daughter is quite independent and assertive but she loves doting on our friends' babies and little children, so I'd like to think she'd be a good big sister...

Oh and I have a second question as well: I give her some screen time with the iPad but there are so many children's apps and they seem to all be filled with in app purchases. I get why ("Daddy! I want the pirate puzzles, can I have it pleaaaase pleaaaase!"), but I'd rather pay some money upfront and not have to worry about any of that.
1. My sibling and I were born seven years apart. We know several families with five year gaps as well. It works out well most of the time, although obviously there will be a lot of activities for the older child that the younger child can't participate in.

2. Don't give kids free reign on app choices, let alone in-app purchases. The main PBS Kids apps are free and don't have in app purchases. The Endless learning apps just have an upfront cost (or are offered as demos with a one time in app unlock). If you're looking for actual games, consider Apple Arcade or standbys like Monument Valley (although that might be beyond the capabilities of a four year old) instead of the junk that's targeted at kids on the store.
 

Blackpuppy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,786
This is pretty much why Apple Arcade exists... pay $5/mo with a general guarantee of no mtx weirdness. That in conjunction with some age restrictions might get you there.
1. My sibling and I were born seven years apart. We know several families with five year gaps as well. It works out well most of the time, although obviously there will be a lot of activities for the older child that the younger child can't participate in.

2. Don't give kids free reign on app choices, let alone in-app purchases. The main PBS Kids apps are free and don't have in app purchases. The Endless learning apps just have an upfront cost (or are offered as demos with a one time in app unlock). If you're looking for actual games, consider Apple Arcade or standbys like Monument Valley (although that might be beyond the capabilities of a four year old) instead of the junk that's targeted at kids on the store.
Thank you for your answers and suggestions.

I don’t let her tell me which apps she can choose. I downloaded a drawing app and a puzzle app a few months ago based simply on the reviews and to my disappointment, it’s mostly filled with in app purchases. I’ve explained to her they cost money, and she understands but it’s frustrating for both her and myself so that’s why I’m looking for recommendations here.

Games aren’t really her thing though. She likes to pick up Mario Run but finds that frustrating. We tried Mario Kart on the Switch but she prefers just hitting the camera reverse button and looking at the face of her character. She’s mostly into more creative apps.

Maybe in a year or so I’ll get her a 2ds or - fingers crossed - a hypothetical Gameboy Classic.
 

DrSlek

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,350
About to take away a 2.5 year olds pacifiers tonight. We'll see how well that goes down.
 

lt519

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,596
10 mo old son is getting increasingly pissed and fussy when he can't have everything that is in his sights. He'll throw a fit if you take something as meaningless as a piece of paper away from him and he has to have everything in his hands which also makes it very hard to do video chat with family. We we're video chatting with my brother yesterday and he was basically stealing the phone and trying to crawl away with it lol. Gets really mad and frustrated when he can't reach stuff up on our window sills.

Advice? Or just part of growing up?
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,732
10 mo old son is getting increasingly pissed and fussy when he can't have everything that is in his sights. He'll throw a fit if you take something as meaningless as a piece of paper away from him and he has to have everything in his hands which also makes it very hard to do video chat with family. We we're video chatting with my brother yesterday and he was basically stealing the phone and trying to crawl away with it lol. Gets really mad and frustrated when he can't reach stuff up on our window sills.

Advice? Or just part of growing up?
Definitely part of growing up. Redirect and get things you don't want him to have out of the rooms he's in. If he gets something you don't want you could try to trade for other fun things. And pick your battles. Is he really going to do anything bad with a piece of paper? Let him have it. He'll have fun and it'll be done with. Take things away when they're more dangerous and/or important.

Stuff he can't reach he should learn at some point that he just can't do it and will concentrate more on things he can. You can also sacrifice something else from the table. Sometimes they just want something. So ours would reach and we'd give him like a sock or something that was also sitting up there.

Video chatting will be hard. Phones are very interesting. People talking on them are very interesting. Ours struggled with that a lot when we chatted with grandparents.

You'll also learn a bit that if you allow him to do something once he's going to think he can do that all the time. My wife kind of has this issue and it's the biggest parenting difference between us. My son literally doesn't pay attention to my phone at all like 99% of the time because I've never let him have it. My wife, however, has. So he gets more upset when he can't have that or when she needs to take it away because he's licking the port or doing something stupid a baby would do.
 

lt519

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,596
Definitely part of growing up. Redirect and get things you don't want him to have out of the rooms he's in. If he gets something you don't want you could try to trade for other fun things. And pick your battles. Is he really going to do anything bad with a piece of paper? Let him have it. He'll have fun and it'll be done with. Take things away when they're more dangerous and/or important.

Stuff he can't reach he should learn at some point that he just can't do it and will concentrate more on things he can. You can also sacrifice something else from the table. Sometimes they just want something. So ours would reach and we'd give him like a sock or something that was also sitting up there.

Video chatting will be hard. Phones are very interesting. People talking on them are very interesting. Ours struggled with that a lot when we chatted with grandparents.

You'll also learn a bit that if you allow him to do something once he's going to think he can do that all the time. My wife kind of has this issue and it's the biggest parenting difference between us. My son literally doesn't pay attention to my phone at all like 99% of the time because I've never let him have it. My wife, however, has. So he gets more upset when he can't have that or when she needs to take it away because he's licking the port or doing something stupid a baby would do.
I like the trading thing, I'll try and do that more before taking something away from him. Funny-ish story is that he was stealing things from his sister so we'd take them away from him and give it back to her and then give him something else. He wizened up and then started to bring other toys with him to give to her before taking her toy lol. So we've kind of taught the trading lesson before but never really applied it to just random stuff he grabs.

If he wants to eat a dirty sock I usually let him but definitely don't want him gnawing on TV remotes and stuff he fishes out of the couch that we forget was there. Definitely different than his sister, she doesn't really get possessive (yet).

As far as the phones go, the only time they get to hold/touch them is for video chatting otherwise they have been off-limits which we've been pretty consistent about. But they definitely are attracted to them more than other things because they see us using them.

Taking everything out of reach is tough, we don't have a gated play area or room. They kind of just roam where they please, except the bathroom and main bedroom which are always shut; so living room, kitchen, and the nursery all have to be "proofed" of things they can't have but tough to keep up. Kicking off the shoes after work only to look over and 30 seconds later my daughter is licking the sole while my son has dug work papers out of my briefcase. Guess I just need to get better at that.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,285
Sleeping situation seems to be better with our 15mos old.

Some history for those who are looking for sleeping advice.

So, our daughter was a great sleeper from like 4mos -> 9mos. 7 to 7 almost every night, would take up sometimes but not often... And a bottle would put her back down. At 9 or 10 months she started regressing, around when she was teething, and she's wake up at 2-4am and just... not go back to sleep. When we were on vacation with her this happened and we were exhausted/jet lagged and took her into our bed when she woke up, and she went RIGHT to sleep... So we got into the bad habit of when she'd wake up, we'd take her into our bed.

Well, fast forward several months and the waking up thing wasn't sporadic... it was every night... and instead of her going rigt to bed... she'd WIRED and awake for 1, 2, sometimes 3 hours. My wife is aheavy sleeper and would fall asleep immediately, but I'd basically be up all night unable to get the baby to sleep.

So I resolved to try some sleep training stuff. After reading some stuff online and chatting in this thread, I did a kind of hybrid extinction method.

Here's what I do:

  1. Like normal, put baby to bed at 7, 715ish. Shes' really good about going to sleep at night, only takes a few minutes to be honest after I lay her down. Sometimes longer but rarely.
  2. When she wakes up at night, say midnight, 3am, whenever, I go into her room... shes' up, screaming, I lay her down and just kinda rub her back for a while -- I don't take her out. After a few mins when she's calmed down, I leave the room.
  3. I set a timer for 10mins on my phone and let her cry, after 10mins, I go back in and do the same, but I stick around a little longer this time, either rubbing her back or sitting in a chair in the room. After 5-10mins, I get up and leave, set a timer for 20mins on my phone.
  4. Repeat, if she's still crying, and let her cry for 20 mins when I do the same, repeaat that, and set a timeer for 30 mins. FInally, after 30mins if she's still crying, I'll take her into our bed and call it a night.
Results:

I started this on MOnday and Monday was a kinda rough night. She woke up at 2am or so, and I was in and out of her room for the full hour, maybe hour and 15 mins. BUT, when I finally stopped the training for te night and took her into our bed she fell RIGHT asleep and slept hard till ~7am the next morning, so it wasn't bad. I was resolute and stuck to the plan so while she didn't go to sleep on her own, I was okay with it because that was the plan.

Tuesday, she actually woke up at midnight which is unusual so I suspect a loud car drove by. But, on this night, she actually went to sleep the second stint in her room when I rubbed her back. I was able to sneak out and she slept thru the night till 630am which is when I'm usually getting up for work, so that's great.

Wednesday, she woke up again around 330am or so, and likewise, during the second stint she was getting tired but this time she actually put herself to sleep while she was sitting up and crying when I left... so like 5mins into my 20min timer it's quiet and I look at the Nest cam, and she's laying down, and within minutes she's out...a nd she slept till 6ish again, which again was great.

Thursday night ... she slept through the whole night! 7pm to about 615am! She onl woke up when my wife was leaving for work.

I'm still anticipating some regressions, but it's gone better and better every night. My wife's away this weekend which I think actually makes it easier for me at night because I'm better at shutting her door and letting her cry than my wife is, when my wife is awake if the baby's crying then my wife is really uneasy and can't let her cry it out. So, I'm hoping that by Monday, one full week, we'll be in for a really good routine.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,424
10 mo old son is getting increasingly pissed and fussy when he can't have everything that is in his sights. He'll throw a fit if you take something as meaningless as a piece of paper away from him and he has to have everything in his hands which also makes it very hard to do video chat with family. We we're video chatting with my brother yesterday and he was basically stealing the phone and trying to crawl away with it lol. Gets really mad and frustrated when he can't reach stuff up on our window sills.

Advice? Or just part of growing up?
I think it's a growing up thing. He needs to learn what can be played with and when, and it takes time to learn that. Learning boundaries and all that.

My kid used to reach for my phone all the time but he does it a lot less often these days unless I'm actually showing it to him. I think it's because he knows that if he reaches for it when I don't want him to use it, I'll pull it away and I'll win that battle every time. So now he doesn't try. Same goes for things like glasses - he knows those aren't toys, so he stopped going for them after a while.

I agree that offering to trade sometimes helps. That works for my kid too, unless the toy is something he really likes.

It seems to help to offer a choice to the kid that gives him some control over the situation, even though ultimately it gets him to do what he needs to do. So if I need him to come upstairs, I give my kid the choice of either putting the toy down before he comes up, or picking a toy of his choice to bring upstairs with him (which he then has to put down later anyway). That seems to go over a lot better than trying to make him drop everything and just come up right now.

From what I've seen, the more all-or-nothing my instructions are, the more likely he is to get upset by it, and the less likely he is to listen. The whole "take it or leave it" approach just doesn't go over well.

I feel like part of the reason why kids get upset at these things is because they don't understand the situation. It got a lot easier for my kid once he got old enough to understand some words and instructions. Once my kid started to understand the concept of bye bye, I found that it helped to tell my kid "it's time to say bye bye to <toy name>" when it's time for him to stop playing. He was a lot more accepting of that than if I said "it's time to stop playing" or anything along those lines. He would wave or say bye bye to his toys, and then come to me when he was done.

Downside is that sometimes it would take a while lol. He once tried to say bye individually to an entire bag of letters of the alphabet before I had to stop him and tell him to just say bye to everything at once.
 

Wood Man

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,423
About to take away a 2.5 year olds pacifiers tonight. We'll see how well that goes down.
We tossed the binky away around 2 as well. What I did was I had my daughter throw it away herself. I told her she's a big girl and didn't need it anymore. It gave her a sense of empowerment and she never looked back and never complained to have it back. So thankfully it went smoothly for us.

Anyways good luck.
 

RedNalgene

Member
Oct 25, 2017
387
Sleeping situation seems to be better with our 15mos old.

Some history for those who are looking for sleeping advice.

So, our daughter was a great sleeper from like 4mos -> 9mos. 7 to 7 almost every night, would take up sometimes but not often... And a bottle would put her back down. At 9 or 10 months she started regressing, around when she was teething, and she's wake up at 2-4am and just... not go back to sleep. When we were on vacation with her this happened and we were exhausted/jet lagged and took her into our bed when she woke up, and she went RIGHT to sleep... So we got into the bad habit of when she'd wake up, we'd take her into our bed.

Well, fast forward several months and the waking up thing wasn't sporadic... it was every night... and instead of her going rigt to bed... she'd WIRED and awake for 1, 2, sometimes 3 hours. My wife is aheavy sleeper and would fall asleep immediately, but I'd basically be up all night unable to get the baby to sleep.

So I resolved to try some sleep training stuff. After reading some stuff online and chatting in this thread, I did a kind of hybrid extinction method.

Here's what I do:

  1. Like normal, put baby to bed at 7, 715ish. Shes' really good about going to sleep at night, only takes a few minutes to be honest after I lay her down. Sometimes longer but rarely.
  2. When she wakes up at night, say midnight, 3am, whenever, I go into her room... shes' up, screaming, I lay her down and just kinda rub her back for a while -- I don't take her out. After a few mins when she's calmed down, I leave the room.
  3. I set a timer for 10mins on my phone and let her cry, after 10mins, I go back in and do the same, but I stick around a little longer this time, either rubbing her back or sitting in a chair in the room. After 5-10mins, I get up and leave, set a timer for 20mins on my phone.
  4. Repeat, if she's still crying, and let her cry for 20 mins when I do the same, repeaat that, and set a timeer for 30 mins. FInally, after 30mins if she's still crying, I'll take her into our bed and call it a night.
Results:

I started this on MOnday and Monday was a kinda rough night. She woke up at 2am or so, and I was in and out of her room for the full hour, maybe hour and 15 mins. BUT, when I finally stopped the training for te night and took her into our bed she fell RIGHT asleep and slept hard till ~7am the next morning, so it wasn't bad. I was resolute and stuck to the plan so while she didn't go to sleep on her own, I was okay with it because that was the plan.

Tuesday, she actually woke up at midnight which is unusual so I suspect a loud car drove by. But, on this night, she actually went to sleep the second stint in her room when I rubbed her back. I was able to sneak out and she slept thru the night till 630am which is when I'm usually getting up for work, so that's great.

Wednesday, she woke up again around 330am or so, and likewise, during the second stint she was getting tired but this time she actually put herself to sleep while she was sitting up and crying when I left... so like 5mins into my 20min timer it's quiet and I look at the Nest cam, and she's laying down, and within minutes she's out...a nd she slept till 6ish again, which again was great.

Thursday night ... she slept through the whole night! 7pm to about 615am! She onl woke up when my wife was leaving for work.

I'm still anticipating some regressions, but it's gone better and better every night. My wife's away this weekend which I think actually makes it easier for me at night because I'm better at shutting her door and letting her cry than my wife is, when my wife is awake if the baby's crying then my wife is really uneasy and can't let her cry it out. So, I'm hoping that by Monday, one full week, we'll be in for a really good routine.
Nice! That's pretty much how we did it with our daughter at 4 months, and it tracked similarly - first night was rough, second was better, third was better, fourth we were done. Yes, there will be regressions, but she now knows how to self soothe, and even through the regressions she'll remember how to put herself down. Good work.
 

Kyuur

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,675
Our little one (19 months) has started rejecting her lovey this week, bed time routine is broken up because it usually involves her snuggling it while we read.

Had our first prolonged wake-up in just under a year last night. Not even mad since I know some parents still deal with that stuff well past 9mo and it was honestly kind of cute since she just wanted to snuggle in our bed but I hope things go back to normal :lol:
Follow up: things did not go back to normal (yet). I think it's sudden separation anxiety or something but we can no longer leave her in her room with our usual bed time cues without a huge fit that only gets worse. We sleep trained with extinction but that doesn't seem to work any longer.

So now it's hanging out by her crib until she falls asleep for both naps and bed time. I don't really like it and if she wakes during the night we need to go do it all over again but it's the only way for any of us (most importantly her) to get any sleep. It's far less stressful for everyone involved as well.

On another note, we signed up for some baby gym classes. We're not super social people and don't have peers with similarly aged children or do daycare so we figure it might be a good way to get her interacting with more kids. Anyone else signed up for something similar?

About to take away a 2.5 year olds pacifiers tonight. We'll see how well that goes down.
How'd it go? I'm definitely not looking forward to doing the same thing.
 

DrSlek

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,350
How'd it go? I'm definitely not looking forward to doing the same thing.
Put it off until Christmas Eve. My wife came up with a plan to make a big deal about putting them in a stocking for Father Christmas, and in the morning there will be a toy there instead. Apparently that's worked well for lots of other people.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,424
So now it's hanging out by her crib until she falls asleep for both naps and bed time. I don't really like it and if she wakes during the night we need to go do it all over again but it's the only way for any of us (most importantly her) to get any sleep. It's far less stressful for everyone involved as well.
We've been doing this with our kid for about a year now. Seems to work fine, and for the past few months he hasn't been bothered that much if we leave before he falls asleep. He just needs to get calm and comfortable enough before we leave, and then he falls asleep himself. I agree that it's less stressful because there is zero crying involved these days, though it was a bit harder at first.
 

lt519

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,596
On another note, we signed up for some baby gym classes. We're not super social people and don't have peers with similarly aged children or do daycare so we figure it might be a good way to get her interacting with more kids. Anyone else signed up for
We don’t do daycare and the winter is going to be rough as far as weather and getting them outside to see/do new things so we signed them up for an all ages group music class. From what my wife’s coworkers have told us it’s just getting them into a room and doing sing-a-longs and banging on some instruments while the parents socialize. Curious to see if they like it or not.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,732
On another note, we signed up for some baby gym classes. We're not super social people and don't have peers with similarly aged children or do daycare so we figure it might be a good way to get her interacting with more kids. Anyone else signed up for something similar?
We do story time stuff at one of the libraries near us 3-4 times per week. Each library has one and there are a few in driving distance. They do some structured activities for a bit then have free play afterwards. Good lord it makes the day go so much faster.

Ours started out so ridiculously timid during them, but he's starting to come out of his shell a little bit more each time.
 

Anno

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,687
Columbus, Ohio
We don’t do daycare and the winter is going to be rough as far as weather and getting them outside to see/do new things so we signed them up for an all ages group music class. From what my wife’s coworkers have told us it’s just getting them into a room and doing sing-a-longs and banging on some instruments while the parents socialize. Curious to see if they like it or not.
Our 18 month old has gone to music class since she was about 10 months and it’s her favorite time of the week. Ours very much involves the parents but maybe that’ll be different wherever you go. It’s a lot of singing, shaking various rattles, hitting sticks/drums, marching around...lots of stuff.

It has the nice side effect of teaching you a lot of songs to sing to them just around the house when you’re playing or need them to stop rolling around on the changing table or something.
 

texhnolyze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,812
Indonesia
My 4-month-old boy won't feed as long as it used to be.

He used to feed for 10-15 minutes before. But since the last couple weeks or so, he's only feeding for like 5 minutes at most. He's easily distracted by anything, whether it's sound, light, or even his surroundings. After he's distracted he'd just stop feeding and get excited to play. Yes, it's probably just the start of his playing and exploring phase, but I wonder if it would negatively affect his weight and nutrients gain. He was 6kg at 3 months, and only gained 0.6kg on his 4th month.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,424
So my kid apparently just had a febrile seizure. According to the doctors and what my wife and I could find (like this https://www.ninds.nih.gov/Disorders/Patient-Caregiver-Education/Fact-Sheets/Febrile-Seizures-Fact-Sheet), this is relatively common for kids with fevers, and hopefully he'll be fine. He's resting in the hospital next to me right now. Hopefully he'll be fine.

He had been a bit sick the whole weekend, so we took him to the doctor this morning, found that he was sick, and they prescribed him some meds as usual. We were driving home when I looked in the baby mirror, and saw his eyes roll into the back of his head and he started shaking uncontrollably. Both my wife and I were like OH SHIT and I thought that the closest place I could find someone who could help that very moment was a nearby fire department, so I drove there and showed them my kid. My kid stopped shaking and came to maybe 20-30 seconds after that initial moment of panic.

The firefighters checked him (he was stable by then) and called an ambulance, and we've been sitting in the hospital getting checked now and then every few hours ever since. They say he seems fine and will discharge us after a few hours of observation to be sure.

That was fucking terrifying but I'm glad it's not as bad as it looked at first.

My 4-month-old boy won't feed as long as it used to be.

He used to feed for 10-15 minutes before. But since the last couple weeks or so, he's only feeding for like 5 minutes at most. He's easily distracted by anything, whether it's sound, light, or even his surroundings. After he's distracted he'd just stop feeding and get excited to play. Yes, it's probably just the start of his playing and exploring phase, but I wonder if it would negatively affect his weight and nutrients gain. He was 6kg at 3 months, and only gained 0.6kg on his 4th month.
Are you breastfeeding? You might want to check out a lactation consultant for help.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,732
My 4-month-old boy won't feed as long as it used to be.

He used to feed for 10-15 minutes before. But since the last couple weeks or so, he's only feeding for like 5 minutes at most. He's easily distracted by anything, whether it's sound, light, or even his surroundings. After he's distracted he'd just stop feeding and get excited to play. Yes, it's probably just the start of his playing and exploring phase, but I wonder if it would negatively affect his weight and nutrients gain. He was 6kg at 3 months, and only gained 0.6kg on his 4th month.
They do get more efficient with nursing. They can get more out in a few minutes than they used to be able to in longer time.

But yeah, getting distracted is definitely normal. If you're really concerned you can go to a room or area that's less enticing, but really just offer it as much as you can and they'll catch up.
 

RedNalgene

Member
Oct 25, 2017
387
My 4-month-old boy won't feed as long as it used to be.

He used to feed for 10-15 minutes before. But since the last couple weeks or so, he's only feeding for like 5 minutes at most. He's easily distracted by anything, whether it's sound, light, or even his surroundings. After he's distracted he'd just stop feeding and get excited to play. Yes, it's probably just the start of his playing and exploring phase, but I wonder if it would negatively affect his weight and nutrients gain. He was 6kg at 3 months, and only gained 0.6kg on his 4th month.
We used to have to read books to keep my daughter from quitting on the boob/bottle. They just get highly distractable at that age. She's 2 now...she still doesn't like to sit still for meals....

So my kid apparently just had a febrile seizure. According to the doctors and what my wife and I could find (like this https://www.ninds.nih.gov/Disorders/Patient-Caregiver-Education/Fact-Sheets/Febrile-Seizures-Fact-Sheet), this is relatively common for kids with fevers, and hopefully he'll be fine. He's resting in the hospital next to me right now. Hopefully he'll be fine.

He had been a bit sick the whole weekend, so we took him to the doctor this morning, found that he was sick, and they prescribed him some meds as usual. We were driving home when I looked in the baby mirror, and saw his eyes roll into the back of his head and he started shaking uncontrollably. Both my wife and I were like OH SHIT and I thought that the closest place I could find someone who could help that very moment was a nearby fire department, so I drove there and showed them my kid. My kid stopped shaking and came to maybe 20-30 seconds after that initial moment of panic.

The firefighters checked him (he was stable by then) and called an ambulance, and we've been sitting in the hospital getting checked now and then every few hours ever since. They say he seems fine and will discharge us after a few hours of observation to be sure.

That was fucking terrifying but I'm glad it's not as bad as it looked at first.
This has always been one my biggest fears with my daughter because she runs SUPER high fevers (she got up to 105.2F once, and has had multiple bouts with 104). As I'm sure the doctors have assured you, these febrile seizures are normal and almost never have further complications. Though I know that's not much comfort when it's happening. Good to hear he's seemingly getting better.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,424
This has always been one my biggest fears with my daughter because she runs SUPER high fevers (she got up to 105.2F once, and has had multiple bouts with 104). As I'm sure the doctors have assured you, these febrile seizures are normal and almost never have further complications. Though I know that's not much comfort when it's happening. Good to hear he's seemingly getting better.
Docs sent us home, saying that they don't think it's anything worse than just a normal ear infection.

We're watching him now and it's still hard to control his fever. We gave him both advil and Tylenol, and it still took him about an hour and a half for the fever to drop. He was pretty bad up until then.

We're going to have to spend the night watching him like a hawk because it seems his fever comes back hard every time the meds wear off.
 

Kyuur

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,675
We don’t do daycare and the winter is going to be rough as far as weather and getting them outside to see/do new things so we signed them up for an all ages group music class. From what my wife’s coworkers have told us it’s just getting them into a room and doing sing-a-longs and banging on some instruments while the parents socialize. Curious to see if they like it or not.
This sounds cool. I looked it up and there are a couple nearby even! Might give it a try if the gym thing doesn't pan out or just to switch it up.

Winter is the main problem though, yeah. We were out about at parks all summer but now that it's -20 out with snow there's barely anyone out and we can only go for a few minutes max.

So my kid apparently just had a febrile seizure. According to the doctors and what my wife and I could find (like this https://www.ninds.nih.gov/Disorders/Patient-Caregiver-Education/Fact-Sheets/Febrile-Seizures-Fact-Sheet), this is relatively common for kids with fevers, and hopefully he'll be fine. He's resting in the hospital next to me right now. Hopefully he'll be fine.

He had been a bit sick the whole weekend, so we took him to the doctor this morning, found that he was sick, and they prescribed him some meds as usual. We were driving home when I looked in the baby mirror, and saw his eyes roll into the back of his head and he started shaking uncontrollably. Both my wife and I were like OH SHIT and I thought that the closest place I could find someone who could help that very moment was a nearby fire department, so I drove there and showed them my kid. My kid stopped shaking and came to maybe 20-30 seconds after that initial moment of panic.

The firefighters checked him (he was stable by then) and called an ambulance, and we've been sitting in the hospital getting checked now and then every few hours ever since. They say he seems fine and will discharge us after a few hours of observation to be sure.

That was fucking terrifying but I'm glad it's not as bad as it looked at first.


Are you breastfeeding? You might want to check out a lactation consultant for help.
That's rough, sorry you had to go through it. Glad it doesn't amount to any long term problems though!
 

RedNalgene

Member
Oct 25, 2017
387
Docs sent us home, saying that they don't think it's anything worse than just a normal ear infection.

We're watching him now and it's still hard to control his fever. We gave him both advil and Tylenol, and it still took him about an hour and a half for the fever to drop. He was pretty bad up until then.

We're going to have to spend the night watching him like a hawk because it seems his fever comes back hard every time the meds wear off.
Have you tried alternating the meds? We do that whenever my daughter gets a fever. For instance, Tylenol is good for 4 hrs, Motrin for 6. So give him Tylenol and then 3 hours in you can give him Motrin, then 5 hours after that give Tylenol. This way there’s always meds in him
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,424
That's rough, sorry you had to go through it. Glad it doesn't amount to any long term problems though!
Thanks. Hopefully he recovers soon so that he doesn't need meds to keep the fever away.

Have you tried alternating the meds? We do that whenever my daughter gets a fever. For instance, Tylenol is good for 4 hrs, Motrin for 6. So give him Tylenol and then 3 hours in you can give him Motrin, then 5 hours after that give Tylenol. This way there’s always meds in him
We wanted to keep that as an option at first, but Advil alone wasn't moving his fever at all so we decided to try giving both at once. That seems to have worked, but it does mean that we need to be on the ball for when they wear off.

That was the scariest part so far after coming home. He'd have a high fever, we'd give him meds, and then for the next hour or so nothing would happen and we'd wonder if we needed to take him back to the hospital. Then all of a sudden his fever drops and he's sleeping soundly.

He's sleeping fine now, but the meds are wearing off in a few hours, so we're going to have to do that whole thing again soon.
 

GiJose

Member
Oct 25, 2017
134
Thanks. Hopefully he recovers soon so that he doesn't need meds to keep the fever away.
So febrile seizures are a bit of a misnomer, it's not technically the fever that causes it. It's the rapid onset of inflammation that kind of overloads the brain and causes a seizure. Unfortunately no amount of fever suppression will prevent a 'febrile' seizure. It usually happens towards the beginning of the illness.

Uncommonly it can rarely happen multiple times with the same illness

As other have said and hopefully the doctor at the ER it's pretty common, becomes less common with age, and almost always completely benign!

All I'm really trying to say is keep your child comfy with fever suppression, but you wouldn't need to wake him up to give him Tylenol/Advil, and if there is another seizure it would not be because you didn't prevent a fever or something along those lines
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,424
So febrile seizures are a bit of a misnomer, it's not technically the fever that causes it. It's the rapid onset of inflammation that kind of overloads the brain and causes a seizure. Unfortunately no amount of fever suppression will prevent a 'febrile' seizure. It usually happens towards the beginning of the illness.

Uncommonly it can rarely happen multiple times with the same illness

As other have said and hopefully the doctor at the ER it's pretty common, becomes less common with age, and almost always completely benign!

All I'm really trying to say is keep your child comfy with fever suppression, but you wouldn't need to wake him up to give him Tylenol/Advil, and if there is another seizure it would not be because you didn't prevent a fever or something along those lines
Thanks. I was under the impression that it was caused by the fever temperature spiking fast, and not because of the inflammation. I was very worried about his fever last night because he was hovering around 39C and looked pretty out of it in the hour or so before the meds kicked in. But once they kicked in, his temperature went back to normal really quickly.

His temperature stayed down overnight and he seems to be at a stable temperature today without needing advil or Tylenol. Hopefully this means the worst of it is over and the antibiotics are working.

Fingers crossed.