On Voting or Not Voting for Biden in Light of the Sexual Assault Allegations |OT| Discussion Guidelines in OP

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
12,944
a sunken pirate ship
And no this place is nothing like the other place. It's definitely not perfect but it's made great strides to get better.
Maybe I didn't stick around Gaf enough (lord knows I never had an account there) but I'm not so sure this site is better so much as that Gaf no longer has any compunction against enabling its worst instincts.

Wasn't the guy who now writes things like "User banned: excessive defense of cuck attitudes" or whatever on that site a major Clinton booster back before the split?

Hell, that's why people are concerned about the dismissiveness of the forum to Biden's new accusation here and now. People who claim to be allies so often turn out not only not to be as soon as even the slightest whiff of tension rears its head, but also willing participants in the descent into oblivion once their butts are on the line.

I remind you all: This isn't a matter of metacommentary. This is exactly why people are distrustful of Biden right now. What sacrifices is he willing to make in the name of restoring normalcy? We've already seen Biden himself play the "then fine vote for Trump" game on a young voter who was concerned about the risks that immigrants had faced during the Obama administration, as if people to his left find Trump palatable somehow.
 

Mendinso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,011
You are choosing to prioritize your feelings over the rights of marginalized groups. I'm not ever going to think it's acceptable to throw millions under the bus just so you can feel better about your choice. There is multiple things at stake here and what should be prioritized is the choice that won't risk the lives and rights of millions of Americans.
As someone who is openly gay, who continues to deal with struggles with my rights, as well as me fellow Queer people here and elsewhere, take huge absolute offense to this line of thinking. Because we're in the minority, along with others who would be impacted by a Biden ticket (not to mention, discussing the fact Biden's has been accused of sexual assault, which I don't even NEED to explain why this is a problem), our issues don't matter?

That's an extremely privileged way of speaking of these issues. My god. Please, PLEASE, do not do this.

Please do NOT hand wave people's issues, both those who take issue with a person with an sexual assault accusation, as well as Biden's extremely mixed track record regarding minorities. This is also not even touching upon his track record regarding Medicare and Medicaid (Social Security for that matter), which impacts people like me who are on disability and rely on these services to survive.
 

Owl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,007
California
Bingo.


Vote in the rapist to protect victims of sexual violence.
That's the state of the country we're in. Baring some form of miracle that has never happened before, a rapist will be the next president. You have a voice on which rapist it'll be, and one is clearly worse than the other and will have impacts that will be felt in this country for the next 30+ years in the form of the Supreme Court nominees.

You can choose to do a write-in vote, but based on all evidence that is effective throwing your vote away and then you are not influencing which rapist will run the country. And the chance of the DNC doping Biden are also basically 0. It fucking sucks, but that's the country we live in. We really tried with Bernie, but this country sucks too much to be ready for him.
 
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Wazzy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,567
No one said anything about not voting. I'm voting, but not for Biden. I am not going to vote for a rapist and no amount of shaming is going to change that. You're arguing that sexual assault victims need to vote for someone accused of rape.. for the good of sexual assault victims.

That is all kinds of fucked
If it comes down to Trump vs Biden and you decide it's more important to risk a Trump term so that you didn't vote for a rapist then I will still think it's disgusting I'm not going to applaud your decision when its at the cost of millions.
It's a nonsensical take because it's another in a long line of tunnel-vision opinions that weighs activism on merely voting engagement.

If the fate of the civil Rights for disenfranchised groups can be that easily lost, than no one was really fighting for them to begin with.
Risking a Trump term is not helping anyone. You can all stand here and pretend you've taken some morally righteous stance while Trump destroys your entire country and will continue to shit on rape victims, LGBT+, woman, POC, etc while also removing their rights but I'm not going to listen to the excuses for why thats okay.

As someone who is openly gay, who continues to deal with struggles with my rights, as well as me fellow Queer people here and elsewhere, take huge absolute offense to this line of thinking. Because we're in the minority, along with others who would be impacted by a Biden ticket (not to mention, discussing the fact Biden's has been accused of sexual assault, which I don't even NEED to explain why this is a problem), our issues don't matter?

That's an extremely privileged way of speaking of these issues. My god.

Please do NOT hand wave people's issues, both those who take issue with a person with an sexual assault accusation, as well as Biden's extremely mixed track record regarding minorities. This is also not even touching upon his track record regarding Medicare and Medicaid (Social Security for that matter), which impacts people like me who are on disability and rely on these services to survive.
I'm also part of marginalized group and I take offense to people saying my rights are worth nothing when it comes to voting.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
17,536
Just to be clear you are arguing that sexual assault victims who refuse to vote for Biden are putting their personal feelings above other marginalized groups? Or sexual assault victims aren't themselves a marginalized group?

Is rape trauma a less valid feeling than racial violence trauma? Do you have a diagram I can look at?
lol I have literally held my partner in my arms crying from sexual assault and I’m being concerned trolled about not caring about vulnerable people because we’re unexcited about voting for a rapist.

2020 fucking sucks dude. Hell year!
 

MagicDoogies

Member
Oct 31, 2017
979
You're going to have to wait for a lot more boomers to die off before you have a hope of changing the status quo.

I'm disgusted with the state of this country's politics too, but I'm not willing to sacrifice decades of progress and thousands of lives for idealism. This is the worst possible time to demand revolutionary change. There is zero momentum for it. The public is not primed for it. We need stability and the reassuring mediocrity of an aging white man to entice the moderates who might otherwise vote Trump back into office.

Another four years of Trump would be a disaster for everyone except rich white people. And even they'd be screwed in the end, because the environment isn't going to fix itself, and our foreign enemies aren't going to rest on their laurels until we get an adult back in charge.
The American public never has been and never will be 'ready' for idealism. Every instance of us getting our rights has been after we've been beaten bloody while moderates wag their fingers and said 'civility'.

Every year is 'not the right time to fight for idealism' because anytime conflict happens that directly calls out the establishment they always point to the other guys and say 'see he's worse! So shut up and stay in line.' After Donald Trump we will continue to get Donald Trump because Donald Trump despite being one term was wildly successful and the DNC will continue to field shitty candidates and use this card on us over and over and over again to avoid ever actually making any progress because they truthfully never cared to begin with.

It's nothing more but scam at this point.
 
Mar 10, 2018
2,610
Echoing what Nepenthe said earlier in the thread: just like how we all said that if you support Trump, you support ALL of his policies, then if you support Biden, you are supporting his not being held accountable for allegedly sexually assaulting multiple women. There’s no way around it.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
12,944
a sunken pirate ship
If the fate of the civil Rights for disenfranchised groups can be that easily lost, then staunch suffrage supporters weren't really fighting to protect those rights to begin with.
Ah, but how did the disenfranchised groups even get the right to vote in the first place? Voting, obvi--wait, hold on, what? *finger to ear* Making really big messes and scaring the people in power? Are you sure? That sounds like children throwing a tantrum to me. What about the adults in the room?
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,943
It really sucks that the tone of these threads is “vote for the rapist who was Strom Thurmond’s best friend” when the primary is still going on. He is not our only alternative to Trump. Yes, Bernie winning is a mathematical impossibility unless Biden drops out. So instead of telling people to vote for the racist rapist instead of the more racist serial rapist, maybe the conversation we’re having should be about doing something about the nomination process. The conversation should be “Biden needs to drop out”, not “vote for this rapist because the other guy is worse” and I am disappointed in the moderation for trying to entertain the notion. Until Biden is officially the nominee, no one should be told to vote for a rapist.
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,510
USA
If it comes down to Trump vs Biden and you decide it's more important to risk a Trump term so that you didn't vote for a rapist then I will still think it's disgusting I'm not going to applaud your decision when its at the cost of millions.
No one asked you to applaud anything. I'm not going to sit here and listen to "sexual assault victims need to vote for an accused rapist for their own good" from you though. If we want things to change and actually be a lesser of two evils we're gunna have to actually support candidates who aren't rapists.
 

Wazzy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,567
Just to be clear you are arguing that sexual assault victims who refuse to vote for Biden are putting their personal feelings above other marginalized groups? Or sexual assault victims aren't themselves a marginalized group?

Is rape trauma a less valid feeling than racial violence trauma? Do you have a diagram I can look at?
They are putting their feelings above every single group including sexual assault survivors. Do you think Trump winning doesn't affect rape victims? Like are people in this thread for real? Every single group is punished if Trump wins.

Oh and things Biden has done do personally bother me as someone who has been groped and harassed multiple times. I will still put my feelings above that if it comes down literal fucking evil over a shitty asshole.

No one asked you to applaud anything. I'm not going to sit here and listen to "sexual assault victims need to vote for an accused rapist for their own good" from you though. If we want things to change and actually be a lesser of two evils we're gunna have to actually support candidates who aren't rapists.
Just remember sexual assault victims are hurt by Trump. It's easy to forget when you're busy focusing on Biden being a shitstain rapist.
 

Deleted member 227

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
852
Gaming forum where moderators make threads that you should vote for senile racist rapists because he's not the other senile racist rapist. This board can have 200 threads about Marvel, or 300 threads about shitting in the shower, but a rape testimony comes out against Biden, and 2 threads later the mods locks, sweep it up and hide it in a thread that DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A SINGLE MENTION OF THE WORD RAPE IN THE OP OR TITLE. Oh and multiple mods showing up to coddle and stand up for a person saying they'd VOTE FOR HITLER over Trump is just nice. Real nice. And their sole defense is "well, our token minority doesn't find it offensive"

There's absolutely a discussion to be had what the right thing to do is, a discussion that's an extension of a dilemma people have had for years since the last election, but the way the mods are handling this is once again extremely suspect and they're showing their ass, tightening rules even more to tone policy and decide what people can talk about while somehow coddling people on one side that oversteps boundaries.



This post earlier caught my eye, because it's stunning how no one is batting an eye at it. Letting Biden stick his fingers in a woman's vagina without her consent is being compared to freedom fighting for lives. That's where we are, that's how warped this discussion became very fast.

Marginalised people and their worries are just getting shoved in to a locker, while ridiculously dismissive arguments are being made about "achtually, you shouldn't care". Somehow rape is now being turned in to a miniscule matter and the country comes first. The inclusiveness on here feels like a massive farce right now. And I'm writing that as a POC/minority. It was already on thin ice, but this just cements it. Feelings only matter if it fits your narrative. Just end me. No seriously, I've send 2 messages to get my account closed/deleted weeks ago, do your fucking job.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,778
This is a bit of aside, but I think discussions involving Trump become somewhat muddled because people who don't like Trump still whitewash him. There are two conflicting images of Trump: him as a boorish goofball that makes America look bad, and him as a white supremacist trying to turn America into a fascist state. Often the latter image is passed off to Trump's supporters. In fact, it's always been a part of Trump.



Donald Trump's father was probably a KKK member, going by the arrest of a Fred Trump at a rally in 1927. It's not hard to imagine that he was raised under those values.

Donald Trump keeps a book of Hitler speeches by his bedside.

Donald Trump pushed for wrongfully committed young black and Hispanic men to get the death penalty in the Central Park jogger case.

Donald Trump was a major force behind the birther movement, trying to prove that Barack Obama has become president illegally. He then went on to eliminate even small laws that Obama had signed once entering office.

Donald Trump repeatedly made winks to and was decidedly slow to condemn white nationalists ("good people on both sides").

Donald Trump has developed concentration camps for Hispanic Americans.



This is not just some narcissistic goofball who is easily pushed around. This is a man who has actively and consistently pushed a white supremacist agenda for a very long time.

Part of what soften people's image of him is that he doesn't do a good job running the country, which lends to the image that he's just a bumbling incompetent. He put someone who doesn't believe in climate change on top of a climate change organization, what an idiot! But the point of fascism was never to do a good job in running the country. Fascism was never efficient. Despite the image of Nazi Germany as a technologically advanced industrial powerhouse, they were actually running on millions of horses and slaves.

The point of fascism is to maintain power through force, and through appeals to emotional responses like loyalty and fear. Actually acting in the benefit of the people isn't on the agenda and may even be disruptive to it. Beyond the sheer desire to harm non-whites, that's where Donald Trump is operating on, and if he remains where he is that's what he will continue to use his office to try to do.
 

Deleted member 227

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
852

99nikniht

Member
Oct 28, 2017
253
Echoing what Nepenthe said earlier in the thread: just like how we all said that if you support Trump, you support ALL of his policies, then if you support Biden, you are supporting his not being held accountable for allegedly sexually assaulting multiple women. There’s no way around it.
This is a very reductive way to look at the situation. I can support a plurality of issues, including not putting migrant children in concentration camps, not supporting the destruction of both the economy as well as the environment, not support shitbags that has caused trauma to women and pocs, and etc. Voting for Trump is enabling all items that I've listed, while if I vote for Biden, I'm enabling a potential shitbag that could have sexually assaulted 1 or more women, while the other issues I have would be in considerably better shape.

Moral absolutism, looking at the world in black and white, is not a good way to go about and making necessary decisions in a world of infinite shades of grey.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
17,665
Gaming forum where moderators make threads that you should vote for senile racist rapists because he's not the other senile racist rapist. This board can have 200 threads about Marvel, or 300 threads about shitting in the shower, but a rape testimony comes out against Biden, and 2 threads later the mods locks, sweep it up and hide it in a thread that DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A SINGLE MENTION OF THE WORD RAPE IN THE OP OR TITLE. Oh and multiple mods showing up to coddle and stand up for a person saying they'd VOTE FOR HITLER over Trump is just nice. Real nice. And their sole defense is "well, our token minority doesn't find it offensive"

There's absolutely a discussion to be had what the right thing to do is, a discussion that's an extension of a dilemma people have had for years since the last election, but the way the mods are handling this is once again extremely suspect and they're showing their ass, tightening rules even more to tone policy and decide what people can talk about while somehow coddling people on one side that oversteps boundaries.



This post earlier caught my eye, because it's stunning how no one is batting an eye at it. Letting Biden stick his fingers in a woman's vagina without her consent is being compared to freedom fighting for lives. That's where we are, that's how warped this discussion became very fast.

Marginalised people and their worries are just getting shoved in to a locker, while ridiculously dismissive arguments are being made about "achtually, you shouldn't care". Somehow rape is now being turned in to a miniscule matter and the country comes first. The inclusiveness on here feels like a massive farce right now. And I'm writing that as a POC/minority. It was already on thin ice, but this just cements it. Feelings only matter if it fits your narrative. Just end me. No seriously, I've send 2 messages to get my account closed/deleted weeks ago, do your fucking job.
Honestly I hope you stick around because we need more people like you here (But I totally get leaving).
 

Wazzy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,567
User banned (1 week): ignoring discussion guidelines
This is why victims don't come forward.
Because you're okay with a rapist who will make sure sexual assault is considered nothing? Okay.

Continue to ignore the protection and rights of victims by letting Trump win. I'm sure all victims of sexual assault will feel great when Trump is president.
 
Jun 10, 2018
2,253
If it comes down to Trump vs Biden and you decide it's more important to risk a Trump term so that you didn't vote for a rapist then I will still think it's disgusting I'm not going to applaud your decision when its at the cost of millions.

Risking a Trump term is not helping anyone. You can all stand here and pretend you've taken some morally righteous stance while Trump destroys your entire country and will continue to shit on rape victims, LGBT+, woman, POC, etc while also removing their rights but I'm not going to listen to the excuses for why thats okay.
It's not a morally righteous stance by suggesting voting - or the abstaining of it - is only one avenue of political activism rather than the be-all end-all.

There are people on the front lines everyday, likely on this forum too, who organize with community leaders, contact their state and federal level politicians, plan demonstrations and events to push their messaging, join campaigns, coordinate fundraising events for their causes, and plenty of other activities to better position their cause for civil rights. The act of voting, thus, does not give any one the grounds to state those who choose to abstain are choosing to do nothing, when in all likelihood they are far more engaged on a daily basis and don't revolve the extent of their activism on merely a 2 and 4 year schedule.

Voting is important, but doing so doesn't in no shape or form give anyone the right to supplant those who are actively engaged all because they view one particular avenue as nonviable.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
12,944
a sunken pirate ship
Because you're okay with a rapist who will make sure sexual assault is considered nothing? Okay.

Continue to ignore the protection and rights of victims by letting Trump win. I'm sure all victims of sexual assault will feel great when Trump is president.
I would like to agree that Biden would protect the rights of victims but considering he was one of the ones leading the charge against Anita Hill I am at best lukewarm about what his record shows in that regard, irrespective of these accusation.
 
Dec 21, 2017
12,016
My question is, when do we draw the line? If a Republican candidate rapes 100 people, but a Democratic candidate only rapes 25, do we vote for the Democratic candidate just because they have (D) next to their name? Just because they are the “lesser” evil?

So as long as Republicans are more evil than Democrats, we just have to stomach whoever the Democratic nominee is, no matter how evil they are?

Yes, I know that life is full of uneasy choices like that, and that we don’t really have any other options. But let’s call it like it is: lesser or not, both outcomes are evil.
In a really hypothetical situation, I'd still have to vote for the lesser evil. If I'm going to keep living in the U.S. (which I want to) and I'm allowed to vote I'll do what I can to make the country a better place.
Real talk? I've been voting for Bernie and he still has my support. But I have a gut feeling Biden is going to be the choice we're given and it's between him and Trump. I would absolutely vote for Biden over Trump, without question. And that's just the reality of our situation. It's the better choice imo, and the lesser of two evils. This world is disgusting and let's be real, if I ran the country there'd be some pretty damn harsh laws in place that would prevent people like Trump or Biden from ever running for president in the first place.
 
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BADMAN

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,664
Because you're okay with a rapist who will make sure sexual assault is considered nothing? Okay.

Continue to ignore the protection and rights of victims by letting Trump win. I'm sure all victims of sexual assault will feel great when Trump is president.
Love the argument of "We dems may be full of rapists, but at least we don't protect rapists unless it's one of our own in a high enough position of power!"
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
17,665
Because you're okay with a rapist who will make sure sexual assault is considered nothing? Okay.

Continue to ignore the protection and rights of victims by letting Trump win. I'm sure all victims of sexual assault will feel great when Trump is president.
Again, vote in the rapist to protect sexual assault victims is a hell of a take.

Love the argument of "We dems may be full of rapists, but at least we don't protect rapists unless it's one of our own in a high enough position of power!"
^^^
Full masks off now.
 

Frozenprince

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,158
Literally talked in the thread I made on this about how this place, and GAF, had and still has just the worst fucking culture and dialogue around ANYTHING related to sexual assault. Because there's NEVER an attempt to deal with what causes it, what enables it, and never any actualization of the victim other than using them as a cudgel to silence and debase people that you don't like or want to go away, sometimes rightly, but that's irrelevant.

So what do you all fucking do? You literally create a thread about a woman who is telling her story about how a man running for President RAPED HER and you're trying to use that as a cudgel to STILL FORCE PEOPLE TO VOTE FOR HIM.

This is disgusting, you should be ashamed. Rather than EVER look inwards and learn anything it's just the same fucking doubling down on the same dog shit culture that is enabled here.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,814
Gaming forum where moderators make threads that you should vote for senile racist rapists because he's not the other senile racist rapist. This board can have 200 threads about Marvel, or 300 threads about shitting in the shower, but a rape testimony comes out against Biden, and 2 threads later the mods locks, sweep it up and hide it in a thread that DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A SINGLE MENTION OF THE WORD RAPE IN THE OP OR TITLE. Oh and multiple mods showing up to coddle and stand up for a person saying they'd VOTE FOR HITLER over Trump is just nice. Real nice. And their sole defense is "well, our token minority doesn't find it offensive"

There's absolutely a discussion to be had what the right thing to do is, a discussion that's an extension of a dilemma people have had for years since the last election, but the way the mods are handling this is once again extremely suspect and they're showing their ass, tightening rules even more to tone policy and decide what people can talk about while somehow coddling people on one side that oversteps boundaries.



This post earlier caught my eye, because it's stunning how no one is batting an eye at it. Letting Biden stick his fingers in a woman's vagina without her consent is being compared to freedom fighting for lives. That's where we are, that's how warped this discussion became very fast.

Marginalised people and their worries are just getting shoved in to a locker, while ridiculously dismissive arguments are being made about "achtually, you shouldn't care". Somehow rape is now being turned in to a miniscule matter and the country comes first. The inclusiveness on here feels like a massive farce right now. And I'm writing that as a POC/minority. It was already on thin ice, but this just cements it. Feelings only matter if it fits your narrative. Just end me. No seriously, I've send 2 messages to get my account closed/deleted weeks ago, do your fucking job.
+1
 
Jun 10, 2018
2,253
Ah, but how did the disenfranchised groups even get the right to vote in the first place? Voting, obvi--wait, hold on, what? *finger to ear* Making really big messes and scaring the people in power? Are you sure? That sounds like children throwing a tantrum to me. What about the adults in the room?
Shhh can't let factually recorded history get in the way of advocacy for passive engagement.
 

Mist

Love & Respect
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
3,324
The OP states this:

In short, the positions we've seen outlined are (without endorsing any of them):
It isn't asking anyone to do anything, it simply attempts to summarise the different positions within the community, and allows members to state their own positions as a general discussion OT with some guidelines.

There are sexual assault survivors like myself on the team, and I've had to moderate threads on this issue despite it being triggering for myself. It's upsetting to see insinuations that the team are trying to cape for Biden. Over the past 24 hours we've somehow been accused of being biased against people both for and against voting for Biden. The OP states that we're open to suggestions if you feel any of the points are not accurately summarised.

I'd also like to ask people to stay on topic, and not bring in cross-forum drama. There are very important discussions to be had here, so the thread should stay on topic. There are a lot of reports, and we'll be reviewing them all.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,318
This whole situation with Biden is why I never wanted him to be the nominee in the first place. I didn't think he was a rapist at the time, but a lot of his past behavior with women was inappropriate at best and something that was undoubtedly going to be used against him. I think the damage Trump would do with another 4 years in office is too great for me to abstain from voting for Biden. I'm not going to like it, I won't deny whatever it says about my own morals, and I won't begrudge anyone who just votes down ballot.

We literally keep around posters who advocate for war crimes and killing muslims (and then ban muslim posters for having strong reactions to those posts). We keep around people joking about voting for hitler. We downplay and try to white wash rape allegation threads about the democratic front runner. Were not as brazenly stupid and outwardly disgusting, but we are no better.
We also keep around posters who make excuses for doxxing and harassment as well as one who tries the old Boogie tactic of silencing others by referencing their own self-harm. If you're going to use a few posters to paint this forum as being as shitty as GAF, it's only fair to include the ones who happen to share your political leanings.
 

Wazzy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,567
It's not a morally righteous stance by suggesting voting - or the abstaining of it - is only one avenue of political activism rather than the be-all end-all.

There are people on the front lines everyday, likely on this forum too, who organize with community leaders, contact their state and federal level politicians, plan demonstrations and events to push their messaging, join campaigns, coordinate fundraising events for their causes, and plenty of other activities to better position their cause for civil rights. The act of voting, thus, does not give any one the grounds to state those who choose to abstain are choosing to do nothing, when in all likelihood they are far more engaged on a daily basis and don't revolve the extent of their activism on merely a 2 and 4 year schedule.

Voting is important, but doing so doesn't in no shape or form give anyone the right to supplant those who are actively engaged all because they view one particular avenue as nonviable.
Politics are not something that you can just simply disagree over and take a moral stance against it like you would boycotting a company. They will impact millions of peoples lives. Abstaining to vote means you're okay with the risk of Trump winning. This isn't a matter of personal feelings. It's peoples rights at stake.
 

Xaszatm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,705
Politics are not something that you can just simply disagree over and take a moral stance against it like you would boycotting a company. They will impact millions of peoples lives. Abstaining to vote means you're okay with the risk of Trump winning. This isn't a matter of personal feelings. It's peoples rights at stake.
And pretending that people's trauma over sexual assault and rape is something so minor that it can be overlooked or openly mocked is far more than "personal feelings." You don't get to shit on people's trauma and guilt them for having it and expect them to take it lying down.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
17,536
Gaming forum where moderators make threads that you should vote for senile racist rapists because he's not the other senile racist rapist. This board can have 200 threads about Marvel, or 300 threads about shitting in the shower, but a rape testimony comes out against Biden, and 2 threads later the mods locks, sweep it up and hide it in a thread that DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A SINGLE MENTION OF THE WORD RAPE IN THE OP OR TITLE. Oh and multiple mods showing up to coddle and stand up for a person saying they'd VOTE FOR HITLER over Trump is just nice. Real nice. And their sole defense is "well, our token minority doesn't find it offensive"

There's absolutely a discussion to be had what the right thing to do is, a discussion that's an extension of a dilemma people have had for years since the last election, but the way the mods are handling this is once again extremely suspect and they're showing their ass, tightening rules even more to tone policy and decide what people can talk about while somehow coddling people on one side that oversteps boundaries.



This post earlier caught my eye, because it's stunning how no one is batting an eye at it. Letting Biden stick his fingers in a woman's vagina without her consent is being compared to freedom fighting for lives. That's where we are, that's how warped this discussion became very fast.

Marginalised people and their worries are just getting shoved in to a locker, while ridiculously dismissive arguments are being made about "achtually, you shouldn't care". Somehow rape is now being turned in to a miniscule matter and the country comes first. The inclusiveness on here feels like a massive farce right now. And I'm writing that as a POC/minority. It was already on thin ice, but this just cements it. Feelings only matter if it fits your narrative. Just end me. No seriously, I've send 2 messages to get my account closed/deleted weeks ago, do your fucking job.
Thank you for this post and I wish you well.
 

Mewshuji

Member
Nov 11, 2017
3,804
Here is my argument for the third choice outline in the OP:

What it means if you vote for a sexual predator is easy: you support a sexual predator. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts. Don't vote for Joe Biden if you support survivors in any real sort of way. This isn't just watching some movie that a sex pest starred in and maybe some of your money winds up in their pocket instead of the corporation or another actor's or residuals-recipient-- this is directly rewarding a rapist with even MORE power. That's what, materially, voting is, at least in this country- saying "yes, I want you to have power over me because I trust you to not abuse it and to listen to what I ask of you".

Biden has proven he cannot be trusted with that power. If you can live with yourself rewarding him for that, okay then, but don't guilt trip survivors who refuse to vote for him unless you really do want to out yourself as simply not caring about them.

Outside of those allegations, of course.... Those who think they're truly doing a good thing by pledging fealty to Biden before the primary is even fucking over? Don't be a fool. Vote for anyone but Biden in the primary. Obviously if you'd be okay with Bernie, that means Bernie. But all you have to do is vote for anyone but Biden to prevent him from reaching the magic delegate number of 1991 that ensures him the nomination. Preferably you WOULD vote for Bernie regardless to help make it a closer competition and make the powers that be reconsider coalescing around Biden and put someone else forward with less skeletons at the convention, but any little bit helps if you're truly unable to hold your nose.

And in the general? Just don't support either rapist. Vote downballot.
But, you say, Biden would be better, so you can go against your morals and support a rapist? No, I disagree, especially now that I know his touchy-feely bullshit wasn't "old man with a weird head on his shoulders" (which I already SHOULD have made the argument for being disqualifying for him months ago, that's my mistake, and I apologize sincerely) but "active sexual predator". The only major difference between a Biden administration and a Trump administration on an actual material level that wouldn't be effected by who's in Congress and in local positions, is that Biden would maybe choose a liberal or centrist (but certainly not a progressive) judge for the Supreme Court. And, frankly, we already LOST the Supreme Court in 2016. A liberal or centrist to replace RBG wouldn't solve the fact that Roe v. Wade is in consideration for being overturned by a case RIGHT NOW, and would likely be unable to sway any on the fence judges.

And, well... That's about it for material differences. We know Biden has said he would veto Medicare for All, which speaks poorly of how he'd handle frankly more radical bills like a Green New Deal or Reparations, so a Congress not filled with progressive voices to override his veto wouldn't be able to get anything actually good and helpful done under him OR Trump. Biden still supports spreading American-style imperialism, Biden still supports children in cages (and don't pretend he doesn't, he was in the administration that started it that was more to the left than he ever has been; at best they wouldn't be separated from their parents anymore, which is a hollow victory), and any support he holds for the LGBTQ+ and PoC communities is quite clearly lip service given his past stances... Lip service just like Trump. Wouldn't be surprised if he "compromises" with the right as he's so, so very good at doing, and enables some of the shit Trump has been whole-heartedly supporting. Perhaps a return to the "progressive" "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", hm? Most alarmingly, for me, is how Biden's environmental plans are woefully inadequate already and ripe for "compromising" with the right and corporations with vested monetary interests in leading our civilization to catastrophe. Like, we already treat refugees like trash, you think that's going to improve when millions, not just thousands, are asking to get in? Not unless by some miracle Trump or Biden is followed up by someone like AOC as a bare minimum and only gets better presidents from there.

So, I'm sorry, to me, the argument "getting Biden in would be better than Trump" is only true in the most marginal of senses and would maybe allow the privileged to sleep easy thinking they did a good job because they don't have to hear a report about Trump every day, while the disadvantaged still have to worry about getting food on the table, or if this injust system we're in (and that Joe Biden is okay with) will kill or otherwise harm them due to it's inability to prevent rape, harassment, hate crimes, or police brutality. So really, you're just trading a loudly spoken rapist bigot fascism enabler for a softer spoken rapist bigot who's preferred system- the system we had since Reagan at least- which will lead to another fascist in record time due to how the system doesn't fucking work. Maybe we get to keep a liberal judge on a court that isn't going to listen to them anyway for it. Sounds like a raw deal for giving a rapist power to me, especially when we shouldn't be enabling rapists in the FIRST place.

But! If we vote downballot this November, get Democrats and, more importantly, progressive and leftist Democrats in office? You can make sure any judge either man puts up would be thoroughly vetted- perhaps we can even get a stonewall going akin to how Obama was if Trump picks a truly heinous individual, or to just prevent anyone but a truly progressive judge to balance out what Trump has done. We could get over the veto hump that'd prevent important progress. We could potentially prevent further disastrous wars, such as the hot one with Iran and the cold one with China Trump seems to ideate about, or the Iraq War which Biden helped spearhead. We could get those children not just reunited with their parents, but eliminate the cages AND ICE, and maybe, just maybe, give them an easier pathway to citizenship. We could get PoC and LGBTQ+ individuals into power and advocating for their communities. We could help prevent cockamamie schemes by the right and right-friendly center. We could actually, you know, prevent the ice caps from completely thawing, not have crop-destroying wildfires, cold snaps and droughts, and not have all coastline cities eradicated, leading to the rule of fascism if not the return of feudalism, for centuries.

And importantly- we could enact change on a grassroots-up level without willfully empowering a rapist! It will require work though- you can't just sit at home if you have the ability to do more, for the sake of those who must work or save transportation money when it's time to show up to the polls or lose their future -- or even their lives. You'll have to canvass, you'll have to protest. Even just signing up with a political campaign to phone or text bank, which you can do sitting at home! Can you do that? Do you, in fact, value morality and progress as you claim by inherently posting in political OTs on this site?

Or do you just want an unjust peace, where rapists run the show, because you're okay with that? Or, perhaps, you just pay lip service to the idea of justice, but really don't care on a base level as long as the bad things don't inconvenience you personally?

Support victims. Support progress. Do not vote Biden, do not advocate for voting Biden in the primary OR The general. But importantly-
Still go vote.
Vote for Biden's VP should you be in a state that allows voting for the ticket separately they not be a rapist themselves if you don't think the association is too damning (which, understandably, may be, and I cannot blame anyone for not doing so). Vote for Democratic Senators and Progressive or Leftist Representatives, on a national and state level. Vote for mayors, for city councilpeople. Vote for progress. Or at least, vote to mitigate the harm either of these monsters will do.

And most importantly, for the sake of victims here, if you can't even do the minimum to support victims with your vote, at least don't crow proudly about how you're voting for Biden and how people are being "irresponsible" or "supporting Trump" by not voting for Biden. You're making victims of sexual abuse actively feel unsafe or unheeded, which we should be actively avoiding as a site founded on such progressive thought.

Here's a helpful link to help you on your way with finding who to vote for downballot:

435 house seats up in the air once again grabs, 23 Republican seats to claim and 12 Dem seats to hold onto (or primary if the Democrat is acting insufficiently).

And here's a link to state legislative elections:

Nevada, Alaska, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Michigan, Kentucky, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Delaware, New York, Connecticut, New Hampshire, and Maine are all holding those this year.

Find out who's running in those, who can mitigate harm or push progress, and campaign. Campaign, campaign, campaign. And again- VOTE THIS NOVEMBER. Just don't vote for a rapist.

Enabling one rapist enables them all.
 

Wazzy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,567
Again, vote in the rapist to protect sexual assault victims is a hell of a take.


^^^
Full masks off now.
So tell me, what happens when Trump wins? You think Trump won't harm rape victims? What the actual fuck is wrong with people on this forum? I can't tell if any of you understand just what stance you're taking when saying all this.

Love the argument of "We dems may be full of rapists, but at least we don't protect rapists unless it's one of our own in a high enough position of power!"
Again continue to act like getting Trump is okay as long as you didn't vote for one rapist over the one who will be 100x worse.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,319
Atlanta GA
Politics are not something that you can just simply disagree over and take a moral stance against it like you would boycotting a company. They will impact millions of peoples lives. Abstaining to vote means you're okay with the risk of Trump winning. This isn't a matter of personal feelings. It's peoples rights at stake.
I'm still taking issue with your categorizing rape trauma as "personal feelings." It's so much more than that. None of us get to decide how others unpack and deal with it, and how other people vote in relation to their trauma isn't really any of our business. It's beyond hurtful to reduce it to "personal feelings" as if someone is being selfish if they can't bring themselves to vote for a rapist.
 

Frozenprince

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,158
The OP states this:



It isn't asking anyone to do anything, it simply attempts to summarise the different positions within the community, and allows members to state their own positions as a general discussion OT with some guidelines.

There are sexual assault survivors like myself on the team, and I've had to moderate threads on this issue despite it being triggering for myself. It's upsetting to see insinuations that the team are trying to cape for Biden. Over the past 24 hours we've somehow been accused of being biased against people both for and against voting for Biden. The OP states that we're open to suggestions if you feel any of the points are not accurately summarised.

I'd also like to ask people to stay on topic, and not bring in cross-forum drama. There are very important discussions to be had here, so the thread should stay on topic. There are a lot of reports, and we'll be reviewing them all.
Bullshit. This is yet another in a string of attempts to browbeat people into voting for the Democrat no matter what because of some insane moral grandstanding and desire to use the total anesthetization of politics on this forum to shame more people. And it's disgusting.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
17,665
This whole situation with Biden is why I never wanted him to be the nominee in the first place. I didn't think he was a rapist at the time, but a lot of his past behavior with women was inappropriate at best and something that was undoubtedly going to be used against him. I think the damage Trump would do with another 4 years in office is too great for me to abstain from voting for Biden. I'm not going to like it, I won't deny whatever it says about my own morals, and I won't begrudge anyone who just votes down ballot.



We also keep around posters who make excuses for doxxing and harassment as well as one who tries the old Boogie tactic of silencing others by referencing their own self-harm. If you're going to use a few posters to paint this forum as being as shitty as GAF, it's only fair to include the ones who happen to share your political leanings.
What the fuck are you talking about with sides? What does that have to do with literally anything I was talking about?
 

dtflip

Member
Oct 29, 2017
670
Seattle,WA
Dems: Why do we keep losing all the time?!?! It must be the voters faults!

Also Dems: Okay yeah our candidate is awful, uninspiring, boring, and did some horrible things but lesser of two evils right?
Its ok if they keep telling us that we should have learned from 2016 then everyone will just vote for whatever candidate they throw up there and if they lose its our fault.
 

BADMAN

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,664
The OP states this:



It isn't asking anyone to do anything, it simply attempts to summarise the different positions within the community, and allows members to state their own positions as a general discussion OT with some guidelines.

There are sexual assault survivors like myself on the team, and I've had to moderate threads on this issue despite it being triggering for myself. It's upsetting to see insinuations that the team are trying to cape for Biden. Over the past 24 hours we've somehow been accused of being biased against people both for and against voting for Biden. The OP states that we're open to suggestions if you feel any of the points are not accurately summarised.

I'd also like to ask people to stay on topic, and not bring in cross-forum drama. There are very important discussions to be had here, so the thread should stay on topic. There are a lot of reports, and we'll be reviewing them all.
I'm personally not insinuating that the staff is telling people to vote for a rapist, but it's gonna come off that way no matter what if the thread is started and sanctioned by a Staff member. The optics are bad no matter how you rephrase the thread. As long as you include in the OP the argument that we should vote blue no matter who, it's going to be taken that way.

This thread, even with all the changes, comes off as a reaction to Biden's rape accusation and attempts to legitimize the argument "Vote Blue No Matter Who" along side the other arguments.

Personally I just don't think this thread should exist for the site and the staff's sake. You're screwed no matter what.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
17,665
The OP states this:



It isn't asking anyone to do anything, it simply attempts to summarise the different positions within the community, and allows members to state their own positions as a general discussion OT with some guidelines.

There are sexual assault survivors like myself on the team, and I've had to moderate threads on this issue despite it being triggering for myself. It's upsetting to see insinuations that the team are trying to cape for Biden. Over the past 24 hours we've somehow been accused of being biased against people both for and against voting for Biden. The OP states that we're open to suggestions if you feel any of the points are not accurately summarised.

I'd also like to ask people to stay on topic, and not bring in cross-forum drama. There are very important discussions to be had here, so the thread should stay on topic. There are a lot of reports, and we'll be reviewing them all.
Thats going to be a no from me. This thread was expressly written and created without ANY mention of the sexual assault and rape claims that started this entire conversation. To act like it was just an accident that wasn't intended is beyond ridiculous, and thats not even acknowledging that this is a pattern of behavior with the way Biden threads get moderated here. They get changed, closed, or whitewashed all the time. This isn't the first time this just magically happened here.
 

BADMAN

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,664
Again continue to act like getting Trump is okay as long as you didn't vote for one rapist over the one who will be 100x worse.
And you keep acting like keeping this disaster of a party around is the only choice, victims be damned. Demand better or your compliance will continue to enable the shitbags who claim to represent you.