On Voting or Not Voting for Biden in Light of the Sexual Assault Allegations |OT| Discussion Guidelines in OP

MagicDoogies

Member
Oct 31, 2017
979
Why can't we hold Democratic moderates accountable for continually voting for morally compromised people just as hard as we yell at Democratic voters who have hit the end of their rope of morals they are willing to compromise to 'win'.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
17,665
Mekanos, I'm Jewish. You know I'm Jewish. What even is this?
I do, and I ask the same. Trying to frame this as me defending antisemitismfeels bonkers. We've talked about ways to improve the way antisemitism is being handled, and the thing that's making you feel unsafe is an inane post about Zombie Hitler?
You say you don't speak for all Jewish posters and then go on posting this stuff. Jewish members are telling you its an issue. Do your fucking job. And while youre at it, change the thread title to reflect the severity of the issues here. Youre being incredibly callous to people who are bothered by sentiments expressed in here and people who were affected by the suggestion of that topic, as well as whitewashing that this issue is about a rape allegation regarding the front runner of the democratic party. Like its crazy were letting it get to a boiling point over "an innane post about zombie hitler". The community is telling you its an issue. Treat it like one.

Go look at the politics section and the off topic section of the old place and then come tell me Era is no different.
See above. Its no different.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
17,537
I do, and I ask the same. Trying to frame this as me defending antisemitismfeels bonkers. We've talked about ways to improve the way antisemitism is being handled, and the thing that's making you feel unsafe is an inane post about Zombie Hitler?
It’s part of a repeated pattern of people posting blatantly antisemitic things and it being deemed acceptable. If posts like that continue to be allowed it will only continue to damage the idea that this is a safe space for people like me.
 

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,292
With this tried and tested approach the Democrats will surely win, just like former presidents John Kerry and Hillary Clinton did!

At what point will you people realise you are being completely fucking suckered by a party that is awful electorally and holds you in enough contempt to run a credibly accused rapist against a sitting president they maligned for the exact same reasons? Like, they don't even have a good record you can point to to justify their awful decisions!
This is an incredibly privileged thing to say. Black people and minorities simply do not have this option and never have.
 

Roytheone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,951
Putting discussions of bans is silly because there are ethical reasons why people would choose either option and most people didn't want to be in this kind of situation, but the fact of the matter is, yes, you do have two options where either one has a substantial negative side. Inactivity itself is a choice that has effects and they're important effects here. It's not a pleasant situation.
The bans were not serious, more a way to illustrate how shitty the situation is for Americans.

Except for the ban for Trump supporters, fuck them.
 

Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,801
The OP needs to be updated with the central part of the story....

Also a title like "On the merits of voting for an alleged rapist" would probably be more fair and balanced.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
12,944
a sunken pirate ship
Cheebo repeatedly clarified what he meant. You can disagree, but this isn't the thread for accusations and interrogations.
I do, and I ask the same. Trying to frame this as me defending antisemitismfeels bonkers. We've talked about ways to improve the way antisemitism is being handled, and the thing that's making you feel unsafe is an inane post about Zombie Hitler?
It's not useful in this context! It's horrifyingly dismissive! It's like trying to make acceptance a matter of "every gender, even unicorns and rainbows" or "every race, white, black, brown, green, purple". There's so much written about how terrible these sorts of analogies are. They're not helpful, they're not enlightening -- they're offensive on multiple levels, not just the superficial one that you all are addressing. It doesn't acknowledge the real harm that letting people say shit like that causes, that these issues are not worth addressing and the distinctions and histories that people have and their associated victimizations simply. Do. Not. Matter. to you all.

Do not go down this road. The mod inboxes will become filled with protests of unfair treatment any time you try to moderate a tone argument with bans (we're watching what you do with jviggy for the record), if this extremely basic and inflammatory example cannot be not only addressed summarily but instead actively defended by multiple mods in their personal account voice.
 

SoZetaSlow

Member
Sep 20, 2019
1,054
As a outsider I would consider take down Biden from being a candidate because he is a unfit POS. That where the energy should goes.
Yeah, the fact the main crux of the discussion even in the old threads is more about whether people should be allowed to not vote for biden in the general or not without being shamed as opposed to how to best go about preventing him from being the candidate is really telling in regards to how americans view their own electoral system
 

Deepwater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,487
it’s pretty telling that many cannot see what’s so discomforting by saying you would vote for zombie Hitler over trump just for the democrats to win. You can say it was hyperbole but considering we came dangerously close to a three way race with Bloomberg, that kind of thinking illustrates a stark disconnect within the Democratic Party and one of the segments that they expect to vote for them in November.
 

RussTC3

Member
Nov 28, 2018
296
I mean I'm voting for the Democrat, against Trump, which will be Biden. And I'm almost certainly voting a straight-Democratic ticket.

Voting down ballot only and skipping the top of the ticket doesn't make any sense to me unless I was considering voting for Trump which I'm not.

Luckily there is only ever a very tiny vocal minority that protest votes against a particular candidate. Things in this country, including demographics, have changed so dramatically over the years that the Democrat, as long as they run a competent campaign, will easily coast to a victory against Trump.

They just can't pull a Hillary and ignore states.
 

Watchtower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,876
I came away from Trump's election with the understanding that voting needed to be considered a fundamental right and duty as a citizen, and that the very idea of voting as a personal private choice was the kind of toxicity that allows the GOP to preserve their power. That it was toxic because it allows people to believe that voting doesn't matter, because it allows people to believe that they don't have to engage and participate with society to reap the benefits and determine how it continues forward.

But holy fuck has the American system really put itself into an absolute clusterfuck of a disaster. Biden has truly shown himself to be everything Hillary was accused of being, and the DNC has once again now more than ever forced people to vote for the lesser of two evils...and yet this country may very well not survive 4 more years of Trump. Not when he takes his win to mean that he can truly rule as a sun king (something Republicans will gladly let him do), not when even larger swaths of the government get filled with fascistic idiots who don't know what to do other than suck Trump's taint, not when there's a very real risk of RBG or another SCOTUS judge getting replaced by another alt-right dudebro.

And it's not like the system isn't working as intended, right? Bernie Sanders ran two campaigns off rallying kids to vote for him and yet when push came to shove they just didn't. And so we're left with the voting base largely consisting of people that have fond memories of the likes of Biden and Bloomberg, of those who think of Bernie as a communist and Warren as too nagging to be listened to.

Push comes to shove I will ultimately vote for Biden, not for him but for getting Trump out of office, for potentially promoting a better VP, for ensuring the SCOTUS doesn't become a far-right shit-case for the rest of my life, and to bring in more sane, rational, and progressive Congressmen and judges. And I do so feeling that I'm compromising my morals to do so, knowing that Biden should get MeToo'd out of the race but swallowing it down and accepting it because of just how extraordinarily fucked the circumstances have become.
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,797
I'm not talking about voting. I'm talking about listening to and supporting victims of abuse when they step forward and not when it's most convenient. Whether it impacts the election is irrelevant.
Well of course I can agree with that.

This particular instance, though, is impossible to separate from the political situation. The timing of it ensures this.
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,168
I only need three reasons: 1) He's not Trump, 2) he won't appoint hard right-wing conservatives to the Supreme Court, and 3) he will send Puerto Rico aid in the event of another hurricane.

All the reasons I need to vote for him in the GE. The third is near and dear to my heart, given my experience having lived through hurricane Maria. Very few of you know what that's like.
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,510
USA
Well, we don't live an ideal world. We live in a pragmatic one, where one bad option is clearly better than the other.

Well of course I can agree with that.

This particular instance, though, is impossible to separate from the political situation. The timing of it ensures that.
I'm not sure why you keep talking about one being better than the other. That has nothing to do with listening to and supporting victims/accusers regardless of the outcome.
 

tulpa

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,226
I have specifically been watching the democratic voter turnout in order to come to that conclusion. The overall percentage of non-voters in the US is not whats being discussed there as a percentage wouldn't vote no matter what.
i don’t really understand the distinction. primary turnout is always very low, presidential turnout is a bit more but still exceptionally low. not voting because of a dislike for the choices on offer is not some fringe position
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,797
No he's not. If Bloomberg was President right now in place of Trump we would of had Chinese American '''''quarantine houses'''' to address Coronovirus.
Jesus fucking Christ.
It's outrageous and delusional to suggest Biden is not better than Trump. Watch the news sometime.

I'm not sure why you keep talking about one being better than the other. That has nothing to do with listening to and supporting victims/accusers regardless of the outcome.
The impending election is why I'm talking about one being better than the other. You know, the defining context of this situation that can't be ignored, no matter how much you might want to separate the two issues.
 

TaySan

Member
Dec 10, 2018
8,687
I'm sort of torn in all of this. I don't feel comfortable in voting for a potential rapist, but 4 more years of Trump is going to wreck our generation for good.

I don't blame anyone for voting or not voting for him in the general. All i ask of people is to consider voting for local and senate races if you are not going to vote for the presidential. So much is at stake here than just the presidential.
 

RussTC3

Member
Nov 28, 2018
296
There are still enough delegates in upcoming states to give Sanders an overwhelming majority, no forfeiting or delegate reassignment necessary.

In fact, there are enough delegates left to give even Gabbard an undeniable plurality, one that would nearly match Biden and Sanders’ current combined total.

What I’m saying is that there’s still time to get Biden to drop out OR for voters to do the right thing. Doing so requires people to exert pressure on the DNC, on Biden, on the media, and on other voters.
This is not happening. Biden will clear the delegate threshold by the time contests resume again. Sanders is just delaying the inevitable.

The nominating process is over. Biden is the Democratic nominee.
 

Sidebuster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
954
California
it’s pretty telling that many cannot see what’s so discomforting by saying you would vote for zombie Hitler over trump just for the democrats to win. You can say it was hyperbole but considering we came dangerously close to a three way race with Bloomberg, that kind of thinking illustrates a stark disconnect within the Democratic Party and one of the segments that they expect to vote for them in November.
Yeah, it's sad that the Democratic party is about to have its own "if Trump shot somebody on 5th avenue, he wouldn't lose support"
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
21,657
DFW, Texas
You say you don't speak for all Jewish posters and then go on posting this stuff. Jewish members are telling you its an issue. Do your fucking job. And while youre at it, change the thread title to reflect the severity of the issues here. Youre being incredibly callous to people who are bothered by sentiments expressed in here and people who were affected by the suggestion of that topic, as well as whitewashing that this issue is about a rape allegation regarding the front runner of the democratic party. Like its crazy were letting it get to a boiling point over "an innane post about zombie hitler". The community is telling you its an issue. Treat it like one.


See above. Its no different.
There is a literal "tits on TV" thread and every other thread is either a Trump support thread or a thread bashing the media, Muslims, immigrants, or people of color.


So no it is very very different.
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,510
USA
The impending election is why I'm talking about one being better than the other. You know, the defining context of this situation that can't be ignored, no matter how much you might want to separate the two issues.
I have no idea why the importance of the election keeps being brought up when I'm simply talking about supporting and listening to victims. And yes that means a full investigation if they go that route, should be done before and not sat on until after Nov.
 

emag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,206
This is not happening. Biden will clear the delegate threshold by the time contests resume again. Sanders is just delaying the inevitable.

I nominating process is over. Biden is the Democratic nominee.
Certainly, if voters don’t mind having a rapist as president and Biden isn‘t otherwise pressured to step aside.

He’s nowhere near the threshold right now. If Democrats actually care, he won’t get there.
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,797
I have no idea why the importance of the election keeps being brought up when I'm simply talking about supporting and listening to victims. And yes that means a full investigation if they go that route, should be done before and not sat on until after Nov.
Either context matters or it doesn't. I believe that it does.

I live in the US and I'm concerned about the future.
 

MagicDoogies

Member
Oct 31, 2017
979
You have fucking blinders on if you honestly think that the man who upheld Stop and Frisk, ban Big Gulps because he didn't like them, and has said in private he would do anything to 'make them behave' in light of protests of his policies is better than fucking Trump.

Donald Trump is what happens when you take a typical mobster wannabe off the streets and put him in the highest office that's also been corrupted with psychopaths. Bloomberg is EXACTLY the kind of politicians we should be afraid of post Trump because they are meaner, nastier, and genuinely lust to wield the kind of power Trump has to a focused degree.

Trump would of been more happier and content losing to Hillary in 2016 making easy money off book deals and his 'TrumpTV' network crying about the rigged system and conspiracy theories.
Bloomberg would only be satisfied until he can genuinely make this country Authoritarian lite but this time you can still own a fucking gun.

I'm not here for this conversation. I've seen how some ERA users started painting him as a 'moral grey ally' the moment he donated his lint change to help register black voters because that's how hyper focused on Donald Trump this site is.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
17,665
There is a literal "tits on TV" thread and every other thread is either a Trump support thread or a thread bashing the media, Muslims, immigrants, or people of color.


So no it is very very different.
We literally keep around posters who advocate for war crimes and killing muslims (and then ban muslim posters for having strong reactions to those posts). We keep around people joking about voting for hitler. We downplay and try to white wash rape allegation threads about the democratic front runner. Were not as brazenly stupid and outwardly disgusting, but we are no better.
 

RussTC3

Member
Nov 28, 2018
296
Certainly, if voters don’t mind having a rapist as president and Biden isn‘t otherwise pressured to step aside.

He’s nowhere near the threshold right now. If Democrats actually care, he won’t get there.
You're framing this as if the choice is on the Democratic voters when they have already made their choice and will cement that decision when contests finish up in the next couple months max.
 

MagicDoogies

Member
Oct 31, 2017
979
It's outrageous and delusional to suggest Biden is not better than Trump. Watch the news sometime.
Oh shut it.
The news is more than happy to sugar coat and ignore all the things Biden has done to directly harm me multiple times throughout his political career when he knew he could get away with it.
I do this radical thing called looking at a candidates official voting records and statements and base my judgements off that. Not fucking CNN.
 

harSon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,931
You have fucking blinders on if you honestly think that the man who upheld Stop and Frisk, ban Big Gulps because he didn't like them, and has said in private he would do anything to 'make them behave' in light of protests of his policies is better than fucking Trump.

Donald Trump is what happens when you take a typical mobster wannabe off the streets and put him in the highest office that's also been corrupted with psychopaths. Bloomberg is EXACTLY the kind of politicians we should be afraid of post Trump because they are meaner, nastier, and genuinely lust to wield the kind of power Trump has to a focused degree.

Trump would of been more happier and content losing to Hillary in 2016 making easy money off book deals and his 'TrumpTV' network crying about the rigged system and conspiracy theories.
Bloomberg would only be satisfied until he can genuinely make this country Authoritarian lite but this time you can still own a fucking gun.

I'm not here for this conversation. I've seen how some ERA users started painting him as a 'moral grey ally' the moment he donated his lint change to help register black voters because that's how hyper focused on Donald Trump this site is.
He's no ally and I legitimately think he's a shit stain of a human being, but if presented with two check boxes housing Bloomberg and Trump - I'd choose the former with supreme quickness.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
21,657
DFW, Texas
We literally keep around posters who advocate for war crimes and killing muslims (and then ban muslim posters for having strong reactions to those posts). We keep around people joking about voting for hitler. We downplay and try to white wash rape allegation threads about the democratic front runner. Were not as brazenly stupid and outwardly disgusting, but we are no better.
Well I'm sorry you feel that way, but I strongly disagree. This community is light years better than that bigoted shithole.
 

Wazzy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,567
If the presidential race comes down to Biden vs Trump then the only correct choice is to vote for Biden. I will not hear excuses for why people are okay risking Trump getting another term to further destroy every marginalized groups rights, spit on the poor, deny climate change and ruin the entire worlds chances of even slowing down global warming. Trump will enable more acts of sexual assault and is a fucking rapist himself.
See above. Its no different.
This is why posters like you can't be taken seriously.

The fact you're unable to view this forum and the old one differently shows you're unreasonable. There is issues with ERA that can be called out but if you can't distinguish between here and there then you're blind.
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,797
Oh shut it.
The news is more than happy to sugar coat and ignore all the things Biden has done to directly harm me multiple times throughout his political career when he knew he could get away with it.
I do this radical thing called looking at a candidates official voting records and statements and base my judgements off that. Not fucking CNN.
First of all, don't tell me to shut it, lol. Grow the fuck up, you're on a discussion forum where the entire point is to trade views. Jesus.

I know Biden is miles away from an ideal candidate and I know he's caused harm. He is still objectively better than Trump. More competent, more stable, and allied with the only rational party in the US.
 

MagicDoogies

Member
Oct 31, 2017
979
He's no ally and I legitimately think he's a shit stain of a human being, but if presented with two check boxes housing Bloomberg and Trump - I'd choose the former with supreme quickness.
Sorry, but as a black woman I'm not putting my fucking vote for the guy who intentionally designed an enforcement system meant to legally arrest and beat up black people for no reason.

Truthfully I would of simply not voted and protest on the streets, but I would of picked Donald Trump over that shit bag.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,778
Although I don't think any of the options are favourable, I do agree with the people saying that the thread title be changed. The thread title can easily be read as supporting a position rather than simply bringing up the topic, and especially since voting for Biden is the first option listed, it may encourage people to ignore the statement that ResetEra is not endorsing any of the positions.

It shouldn't be possible to come up with a title that's more focused on introducing the discussion; something like "Discussion of strategic and ethical voting in the face of Biden allegations".
 

harSon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,931
Sorry, but as a black woman I'm not putting my fucking vote for the guy who intentionally designed an enforcement system meant to arrest and beat up black people for no reason legally.

Truthfully I would of simply not voted and protest on the streets, but I would of picked Donald Trump over that shit bag.
And as a Black man, I'm saying I would.

You know how the courts found stop and frisk to be unconstitutional? Putting Trump into power means that for 3+ decades, we probably have a Supreme Court that finds it constitutional.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
17,537
If the presidential race comes down to Biden vs Trump then the only correct choice is to vote for Biden. I will not hear excuses for why people are okay risking Trump getting another term to further destroy every marginalized groups rights, spit on the poor, deny climate change and ruin the entire worlds chances of even slowing down global warming. Trump will enable more acts of sexual assault and is a fucking rapist himself.
Not wanting to vote for a rapist isn’t an excuse and you shouldn’t try to downplay this very serious issue.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
17,665
And as a Black man, I'm saying I would.

You know how the courts found stop and frisk to be unconstitutional? Putting Trump into power means that for 3+ decades, we probably have a Supreme Court that finds it constitutional.
We don't even know if that would change with Biden. Hes literally still championing the 94 crime bill which made stop and frisk a national practice.
 

BADMAN

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,664
Poodlestrike I gotta say man, your OP sucks. It's too clinical and drains the argument against Biden of all emotional impact. And like several others have said, it doesn't discuss his assault history. You should have someone else re-write the OP, or better yet, leave it blank. You don't need to summarize people's feelings on the matter, they'll do that in the htread. The way it reads now is more suggestive that maybe you think it is.

But on the whole, this thread isn't appropriate. This thread is a reaction to the story about Biden's rape allegations and you don't even mention it in the OP. It comes across as staff trying to silence discourse or correct people's thoughts on the matter regardless of your intention. If you want this to be a Biden OT, remove all editorializing in your OP. Better yet though, remove this thread. It's entirely unnecessary.
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,797
First of all, don't accuse ME of not reading the news when I don't support Joe Biden. It's a two way street pal.
The implication of my statement wasn't that you don't read the news at all, but that you come off as uninformed or willfully blind to Trump's mountain of offenses, and the consequences of the incompetence and malice that he displays daily.

Pick any issue, and Biden is almost certainly better than Trump. The environment, foreign policy, education, taxation, the likely political leanings of his appointees... The fact is, he would shape the country in a far more progressive way than Trump. He would hire fewer bigots and conservative extremists. And he has the additional benefit of not being a barely literate science-denying egomaniac.
 
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MagicDoogies

Member
Oct 31, 2017
979
And as a Black man, I'm saying I would.

You know how the courts found stop and frisk to be unconstitutional? Putting Trump into power means that for 3+ decades, we probably have a Supreme Court that finds it constitutional.
Good for you can stomach Stop and fucking Frisk. As for me if we are in a situation where the Democratic moderates will unironically field Michael Fucking Bloomberg against Donald Trump then I would of left the Democratic party for being a load of horseshit.
Demand fucking better than that. These comparisons are fucking dystopia tier.