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Non-Binary |OT| 01101110 01101111 01101110

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,686
Hey just wondering, how do people read Kris in Deltarune? The human in Undertale was such a blank slate that I read the game's use of they/them pronouns as ambiguity to let the player project any gender onto them, but with Kris being much more of a defined character I read them as non-binary instead.
 

Tezz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,033
California, U.S.
Hey just wondering, how do people read Kris in Deltarune? The human in Undertale was such a blank slate that I read the game's use of they/them pronouns as ambiguity to let the player project any gender onto them, but with Kris being much more of a defined character I read them as non-binary instead.
I'd maybe need to take another look, but I remember feeling like Kris had the same ambiguous style as the human from Undertale.
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
8,027
APA (American Psychological Organization) style guide officially endorses singular they as a singular third-person pronoun.

Every day the "it's not grammatically correct" argument gets weaker and weaker. Not that this will stop people from trotting it out, unfortunately. Don't read the comments.
This is great fucking amazing to see, I know they posted about it before but this is truly clear cut.
Absolutely fantastic and follows in the footsteps of Merriam-Webster in pulling us forward.

Also this:
 

Tezz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,033
California, U.S.
Have any games with character customization given the player complete control over what pronouns are used? As opposed to selecting he, she, or they presets?

I was messing around with Ren'Py making a player setup thingy. I have sentences with different pronoun cases (nominative, possessive, etc.), but the pronouns are blank and the player is prompted to type theirs in. Once entered, in-game dialogue just needs to call those variables, which many already do but with male and female pronouns.

It'd be very easy to incorporate so I'm curious if it's ever been attempted.
 

Bradbury

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,054
Have any games with character customization given the player complete control over what pronouns are used? As opposed to selecting he, she, or they presets?

I was messing around with Ren'Py making a player setup thingy. I have sentences with different pronoun cases (nominative, possessive, etc.), but the pronouns are blank and the player is prompted to type theirs in. Once entered, in-game dialogue just needs to call those variables, which many already do but with male and female pronouns.

It'd be very easy to incorporate so I'm curious if it's ever been attempted.
I feel like I saw it in some indie visual novels/dating sims like that one with monsters in high school (can´t remember the name right now) but I don´t remember the option in AAA games
 

Lozange

Member
Oct 25, 2017
499
Have any games with character customization given the player complete control over what pronouns are used? As opposed to selecting he, she, or they presets?

I was messing around with Ren'Py making a player setup thingy. I have sentences with different pronoun cases (nominative, possessive, etc.), but the pronouns are blank and the player is prompted to type theirs in. Once entered, in-game dialogue just needs to call those variables, which many already do but with male and female pronouns.

It'd be very easy to incorporate so I'm curious if it's ever been attempted.
Seeing they presets is already rare enough (I can only think of Shovel Knight off the top of my head, although I'm sure if you dig a bit deeper you'd find plenty in the indie scene), although I'd be lying if I said I hadn't considered doing something similar myself for various games I've considered making...and then promptly not done that. I'd love to hear some examples too.

(It's not a game, but I know the waypoint forums did have a system like that at one point? I think they had to swap it out for just a lot of options eventually though due to...well, the internet.)
 

Bradbury

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,054
Are you thinking of Monster Prom? If that is the one you're thinking of, I know it has pronoun options, but I believe they're limited to three.

of fuck Igot confused. Yeah it was the one, I saw a stream months ago and I remembered being impressed by the pronoums options but yeah it still quite limited
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,686
Have any games with character customization given the player complete control over what pronouns are used? As opposed to selecting he, she, or they presets?

I was messing around with Ren'Py making a player setup thingy. I have sentences with different pronoun cases (nominative, possessive, etc.), but the pronouns are blank and the player is prompted to type theirs in. Once entered, in-game dialogue just needs to call those variables, which many already do but with male and female pronouns.

It'd be very easy to incorporate so I'm curious if it's ever been attempted.
2064 Read Only Memories lets you use custom pronouns in that vein.
 

Tezz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,033
California, U.S.
That's super cool! Exactly what I'm talking about. I went looking for an 2064 LP where someone made use of the custom pronouns.
Naturally, they were used as a shitty punchline, but...
Very impressive! Even asking if they should be followed by an is or are.
 
https://www.them.us/story/sue-the-t-rex-is-a-nonbinary-icon

There are many ways to describe SUE, the dark brown, 40-foot-long, 250-bone Tyrannosaurus rex fossil housed at the Field Museum in Chicago, enjoying pride of place as the largest, most complete, and best preserved T. rex fossil ever discovered: Twitter personality, outstanding specimen, “all-caps name-haver,” Jeff Goldblum enthusiast, and murderbird (a fan favorite). And, recently, SUE’s friends at the Field Museum of Chicago, added another descriptor: they/them. That’s right, folks: SUE uses gender-neutral pronouns.
In a world where cars are female, God is (largely considered to be) male, and other ridiculous binary gendering of objects, animals, and entities exists, having a dinosaur fossil use gender-neutral pronouns is unexpected, and that’s plain exciting to those of us who live outside our society’s gender-binary obsession.

But how did SUE come to be found and come out as nonbinary? Well, it’s quite the tale.
 

Garlic

Member
Oct 28, 2017
922
Have any games with character customization given the player complete control over what pronouns are used? As opposed to selecting he, she, or they presets?

I was messing around with Ren'Py making a player setup thingy. I have sentences with different pronoun cases (nominative, possessive, etc.), but the pronouns are blank and the player is prompted to type theirs in. Once entered, in-game dialogue just needs to call those variables, which many already do but with male and female pronouns.

It'd be very easy to incorporate so I'm curious if it's ever been attempted.
I don't know about pronouns specifically but the Sims 4 has pretty granular gender controls at this point
 

kittens

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,673
copying/pasting some She Ra thoughts from elsewhere on social media, I'm curious what yall think:

I started watching She Ra after someone told me how queer it is, and I'm only on season one so far but I LOVE IT. It's indeed queer af, and it's so affirming! The show (as far as I've watched) portrays gender in what I would call a binary spectrum kind of way, with the only two discussed genders being men and women, but with there being a diverse range of fluidity and flexibility and mixing therein. Characters are just themselves in a sort of gender-less way, if not a genderless way. I'm excited that the show is now adding a non-binary character to further diversify (and complicate!) its presentation of gender, though (without having seen these episodes yet) I also feel like one non-binary character is somewhat tokenizing. Why have just one explicitly non-binary character in a show that is already so gender fluid and expansive? There's a lot of room for growth in representation I feel like, and while I'm happy for these strides (I wish I had this show when I was a kid!) I also am looking forward to even richer representation in the future. As younger generations continue to question and reinterpret gender, they need media that reflects their lives and stories and shows them what is possible. Non-binary kids deserve better than one non-binary character.