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Non-Binary |OT| 01101110 01101111 01101110

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
8,148
Yeah, that's unfortunately a very real reality that we have to deal with. Like, people often cite my patience as endless or legendary or all of these other things, but there are times where I snap at someone and I've had people directly say to me on this forum that I am the sole reason that they don't care about trans issues and that I am an enemy to trans people. Like holy hell, we just aren't allowed to react to bigotry or dismissive statements a single time or else we are the real problem in these situations. So, I hold it in when I'm in those threads as best as I can because I deal with enough of that stuff as it is.

It's okay to be upset with what these people say though, and it's okay to let it out. Jagoffs who have a problem with us having feelings in the face of adversity aren't people that are worth thinking about. I know that's easier said than done to not let that stuff slowly dig under your skin, so if you ever need to vent you can message me here or in discord.
Facts on facts. Knowing you’re only one blunt post away from that rabbit hole and subsequently knowing you’ve likely lost any hope of being able to reign it back to the issue is often frustrating. It shouldn’t shock me at this stage but I can’t help but raise my eyebrows reading that reaction to you as you describe. Which only compounds your subsequent point that people who can’t stomach upset in the face of bigotry aren’t worthy of consideration. That rejecting that with heat is alright. Honestly something I needed to read, especially from yourself just because you are so stoic in your returns. Thank you, and thank you also for the offer. Means a lot, and it’s emphatically mutual.
 

Kinvara

Member
Oct 26, 2017
379
Hello! My preferred pronouns are they/them. I would say that I identify as non-binary or agender.

In public, I just try to pass as female. I wish I had more confidence to be open about my gender identity but it's just not something I can do right now. I did get a shorter haircut this year which helped me feel a lot better about myself.

When it comes to formal wear, I get dysphoria when I have to wear a dress but I don't think a suit would feel right either.

Does anyone have any good examples of formal non-binary fashion?
 
Ketkat and Kyuuji yall are baller and your ongoing presence is appreciated
Hello! My preferred pronouns are they/them. I would say that I identify as non-binary or agender.

In public, I just try to pass as female. I wish I had more confidence to be open about my gender identity but it's just not something I can do right now. I did get a shorter haircut this year which helped me feel a lot better about myself.

When it comes to formal wear, I get dysphoria when I have to wear a dress but I don't think a suit would feel right either.

Does anyone have any good examples of formal non-binary fashion?
Welcome! NB formal wear would be difficult to capsulize, I've been struggling with thinking for this as well. but as someone who presents more the gyne side of androgynous, I visualize myself in a femme-cut suit, but still have heels or sres flats, and makeup
 

Icemonk191

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,425
Giving a big hug to all my non-binary pals in here.🤗

Sorry y'all have to deal with a bunch of bullshit lately.
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
8,148
i finished outer wilds

thats a game you should play

coincidentally enough the hearthian species you play as are nonbinary
Ooooo! I even have game pass so this sounds great. Always like the title art but been swamped by releases lately so hadn't had the chance to give it a closer look. Honestly have no idea what it's about – best to go in blind?



 

Poppy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,586
corvallis, OR
In what way? Fluid? Neutral? A fixed number that isn't 2? Dumb question probably, but I'm curious how the game does it
tbh i dont know that it ever goes into more detail than the fact that everyone is referred to as they whereas the precursor alien species uses binary pronouns

its far from being a big deal, i just thought it was neat

Ooooo! I even have game pass so this sounds great. Always like the title art but been swamped by releases lately so hadn't had the chance to give it a closer look. Honestly have no idea what it's about – best to go in blind?
oh yeah dont look anything up

if you get frustrated you can ask but its best to know nothing
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,707
Wonderful thank you! They/them pronouns eee 🤗
I can barely even think of any games that use they/them for the protagonist when they're not trying to write around doing multiple lines for a gender option. Literally the only ones I can think of are Undertale and Deltarune.
 

trashtabby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
948
She-Ra is getting a nonbinary character:

There's some annoyances I have with this but still I'm glad to see a nonbinary character like this voiced by a nonbinary actor on a pretty big show.

Also shout-out to Later Alligator which has Joanie, a nonbinary character who goes by they/them pronouns, with them being nonbinary just being a thing rather than being the thing that defines their character:
 

trashtabby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
948
Out of curiousity, what are your annoyances?
Basically there's a trend in mainstream media that nonbinary characters are never nonbinary through found identity. They're always something like an alien, a robot, or just some sort of different human where there's some sort of "lore reason" for them being nonbinary. Like in this case the character being a shapeshifter. Or for another example, Stevonnie in Steven Universe who is a fusion of a boy and a girl.

I think it's a bit more excusable in kids shows mainly cause there the show's creators likely have a hard time getting a nonbinary character on their show at all, like Steven Universe's creators really had to fight just to have gay characters. But still it's annoying that nonbinary characters are never just nonbinary people. I'm still glad that they exist if only cause they do stuff like normalize singular they/them pronouns but usually I don't feel represented by them.
 
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Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
8,148
As above, recent tweet that was on my timeline.


I’ll echo trashtabby. I’m happy the (any non-binary) character is there though and I’m super happy for Jacob that they have that part. Just want to see more human, regular, non-binary characters.
 

Lozange

Member
Oct 25, 2017
500
Another thing that I often see media do in regards to NB characters is interpret androgyny as "what if we stuck this character in a full body costume of some sort, to make telling their gender impossible".
I mean yeah. Mission accomplished, that's certainly pretty ambiguous. But I dunno, it doesn't feel true to life if I can barely tell if the person beneath the costume is human, never mind their gender.
 

Tye

Member
Oct 27, 2017
749
I've been thinking a lot about gender a lot the past few years and have been mulling over being non-binary myself for over a year now, and I finally decided to "officially" come out just recently (on Coming Out Day), along with my spouse (who's also non-binary). Well, mostly (still haven't told family, because...it's just easier that way). It's been really nice to finally embrace it, and I've been trying to do things that I've wanted to try for a long time but haven't felt comfortable doing, like changing up my hair and trying new clothes, and I've been having friends use they/them with me, and it's all just been really freeing! I'm feeling good in a way I haven't really felt before, and more comfortable with my appearance and self than I ever really have been.

1. What are your pronouns?
They/them! I don't really mind he/him either since it's what I'm used to, but I've noticed that if I tell people that both they and he work for me, some will specifically avoid using they because they take issue with it, and I'm...not really liking that, so I think I might stick to just they/them where I can. (Honestly, I don't care much for gendered pronouns in general; I wish, if we have to have gendered pronouns, that they'd be first-person instead of third-person, 'cause that makes way more sense, but alas. XP)​

2. How do you like to describe your gender / identity? Are there any terms, identities, or affinities you like to evoke in describing yourself?
I guess the most accurate label for me would be demiboy. I definitely don't feel like a man, but I don't feel completely not-male either. Don't really feel near the woman/female end of the spectrum at all, though. So you could say I'm somewhere in the middle but closer to the male side of gender, I guess. But just "non-binary" works fine.​

3. In your experience, does being non-binary feel like having no gender, many genders, fluctuating genders, or both / neither?
To me, it mostly just comes down to rejecting the gender binary, I think. While I generally feel as I described above, something like a demiboy, at the same time I also kinda feel like gender just doesn't matter to me? Would that make me agender then? I dunno. I just know that I'm definitely not binary, that's for sure.​

4. What's your favorite thing about being non-binary? What's your least favorite? What's something that has surprised you?
It's still relatively new to me, at least being out as non-binary, but it definitely has been freeing. Though it can definitely be tough and frustrating when you encounter situations where you have to label your gender, and either non-binary isn't an option or it's unclear whether you're supposed to be listing your gender or sex (I'll talk more about this in a bit).​

5. Has any people, media, art, music, etc. inspired your non-binary self-actualization? If so please share & feel free to elaborate!
I'm sure there has been some media that has helped contribute to it for me, like maybe Steven Universe, but a lot of it is thanks to some trans and non-binary friends my spouse and I have gotten close to (and dated).​

6. Is there anything else you'd like to share or say?
One thing I'd like to talk about is sex vs. gender. From what I've observed, this seems to be a very sensitive and not widely talked about topic within the trans and non-binary community, so I'm very hesitant to even bring this up here, but I'd really like some insight on the subject from other non-binary people. I tried stumbling into a conversation about this before in the trans thread here over a year ago, but it was clear I went about that the wrong way and my intentions were being misunderstood so I just dropped it. But I guess I'll try again here. Spoilered so my wall of text isn't taking up the whole page:​
Anyway, sex and gender are different things, yes? It was learning that fact many years ago that helped me start to understand non-cis identities. Society has always and continues to use the two interchangeably in language and all though, which I believe is a bit of a problem and makes understanding these things a lot more difficult for many people. Whenever I talk to someone who doesn't "get" trans and non-binary identities, explaining the difference between sex and gender and what exactly each is seems to be the thing that makes the concept "click" for them most of the time. Clearly this is an area in which many people are poorly educated, and I feel like using sex and gender interchangeably so much directly contributes to this. Even this thread uses gender and sex interchangeably! Hell, even I used some sex terminology for gender in the questionnaire above, lol. It's hard not to do because it's so ingrained into our language and culture!

Now, I can understand why many trans people would prefer to not make a distinction between sex and gender. I'm sure, for example, a trans man who hasn't transitioned generally wouldn't like being called female, or a post-HRT trans woman wouldn't really like being considered intersex—even though, if we're considering sex and gender as different things and going by their own definitions, that's not entirely incorrect? But I realize saying things like "female man" or "male woman" sounds like terms a transphobe would use, and having to refer to yourself as the sex that doesn't match your gender can trigger dysphoria and also be used as a weapon by bigots. I get that. And to be clear, I'm absolutely not questioning the validity of trans identities here; trans woman are woman, trans men are men, yes. I'm simply talking about the mess that is sex vs. gender.

As for how this affects me personally, well, I just had this issue today: I went to my doctor and had to update some forms. This was the first time I'd been there since coming out as non-binary, and of course they ask for my gender—specifically "gender," not sex. But I assume they meant sex? 'Cause sex is going to be more relevant information to a doctor than gender, which shouldn't really matter as much, right? Anyway, I kinda froze up and didn't know what to do; I ended up just putting "male" anyway because it's just easier. A similar thing happened a few days ago when I started playing Ring Fit Adventure; the games asks you to select "female," "male," or "prefer not to say," and I wasn't sure what to put (didn't help that my roommate was watching at the time and mockingly said "I thought you're non-binary now" when I was about to select male). I don't believe it specified between sex or gender, and I wasn't sure exactly what the information was used for (thought it might be used online for display and to compare you with other users), but I guess it's used to help the game determine your muscle mass or something (so, sex). Even if it doesn't seem like a big deal, I've found that not knowing what to do in situations like that isn't fun, and it definitely gives me anxiety...

But here's the thing—I don't take issue with identifying as "male" when it comes to biological sex, because, well, that's what my body is. I'm not taking HRT to change my sex characteristics or anything, so my body is firmly male, I can't deny that. I may not be happy with all of the sex characteristics that come with the male body (possibly a form of gender dysphoria?), but my body is male regardless, and I'm fine being referred to as male if we're strictly talking about sex. But "male" is also used for gender (despite "man" technically being the equivalent term for gender, not "male") all the time, like in my situation today, and that's where I wouldn't like to be referred to as male (or a man, if we're using the term that's supposed to be used for gender). And if I were to, say, update my driver's license/state ID (if I could), what would I do? The field listed is explicitly "sex," not gender, so it would feel wrong to be listed as non-binary for that...yet sex on IDs is largely used interchangeably with gender, so I also kind of would like to be listed as non-binary?

I feel like having separate fields for both sex and gender would be better in some situations like this, or just gender if sex isn't necessary—which, really, should be the case more often than not; there aren't many reasons why you should have to disclose your sex to someone. Gender should be all that's necessary for most scenarios (minus stuff where sex would be relevant and important information, like for some medical purposes). But, like, I think it should be clear that you're stating your gender, not sex, in those situations, not ambiguous as to which it is. And again, I also realize why many people wouldn't like listing both sex and gender separately or not using them interchangeably, and understand it could end up being even worse in some ways...but what is the answer then? I feel like there's no good answer and it's just endlessly frustrating to me. Of course, stuff like this is kinda why I've grown to hate labels in general, since they often don't accurately describe in full what they're labeling and just make things out to be more rigid than they truly are or make them even harder to understand.
Anyway, I know that's a mess of thoughts and I'm not even really sure what kind of response I'm looking for; I just kinda wanted to throw that out there to other non-binary people and see if I'm not alone in my frustration. My depressed, ADHD ass tends to be all over the place and maybe I'm not even making much sense here. I'm sure I could have presented my thoughts better too and this probably sounds terrible in some way but oh well, it's been bugging me for a long time and I still don't know how to feel about it. Am I wrong for thinking this way at all? Is there something I'm missing? How do any of you deal with situations like this, with gender vs. sex, and what are your thoughts on the matter?​
 
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Lozange

Member
Oct 25, 2017
500
It's intersex awareness day! I dunno if this applies to anyone here, but you're pretty cool and valid. <3
 

Mewn

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,111
UK
Been deliberating my gender identity for years now, and not entirely sure if I'm trans or enby (about the only thing I'm sure of is that I'm definitely not cis, and I don't see myself as male either), but currently going with the latter seems about right, so hey. If that changes down the line, I guess it's no biggie.

1. What are your pronouns?
Currently they/them, also accepting she/her. I dislike he/him, but tolerate it IRL because I still present as male - more out of necessity than desire.

2. How do you like to describe your gender / identity? Are there any terms, identities, or affinities you like to evoke in describing yourself?
As mentioned above, I'm currently somewhere in the space between non-binary and trans woman. I've heard the phrase 'non-binary transfem' so I guess that currently describes me? Certainly my online presence has tended towards the feminine for years now (tending towards playing female chars in online games, being real cagey about my gender etc.).

My conflict right now feels like wondering if I'm just genuinely enby or just associating with it for now because it feels awkward to say I'm trans when I look and sound like a guy. I do wanna emphasise that I'm not suggesting people aren't valid or pushing a truscum agenda or anything like that - people are what they say they are. It's a personal hangup that I hope to resolve in time.

3. In your experience, does being non-binary feel like having no gender, many genders, fluctuating genders, or both / neither?
Currently, I would say I disassociate with being male more than I associate with the idea of no gender. That's a constant, but I do fluctuate between feeling like I have no gender and feeling more female.

4. What's your favorite thing about being non-binary? What's your least favorite? What's something that has surprised you?
It's brought me a measure of inner peace, for sure. I might not end up identifying as enby in the future, but it definitely feels a lot better than identifying as male.

Least favourite thing I guess is that it's not obvious and I'm wary of coming out IRL right now. My best friend knows and is cool with it tho.

I guess if I'm surprised by anything it's how prevalent being enby is? I have seen people come out IRL and it seems to be getting more and more traction by the day. That's a good thing, of course, so pleasantly surprised.

5. Has any people, media, art, music, etc. inspired your non-binary self-actualization? If so please share & feel free to elaborate!
Can't think of anything specific, but I've been subconsciously drawn to gender non-conforming stuff pretty much since I was a teenager.

6. Is there anything else you'd like to share or say?
Think I've covered it all, really. I'm still figuring stuff out but this seems like a good place for right now.
 
Tye welcome fellow demiboy 👀🙂

I guess if I'm surprised by anything it's how prevalent being enby is? I have seen people come out IRL and it seems to be getting more and more traction by the day. That's a good thing, of course, so pleasantly surprised.
Welcome as well ☺

I do believe that gender isn't so simple and binary for even a larger pool of people than once thought. When knowledge and support becomes more widespread, and more people are allowed to experiment with their identities, we are gonna see a huge uptick in ppl not opting to identify wholly as "man" or "woman"
 

i love tacos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
38
This gender reveal party thing is something else. Is it really that difficult to understand that pushing gendered expectations on your child before they are even born might not be the kind of thing you want to celebrate?

This party completely erases any other option but Blue or Pink, and ignores the agency of the child in that decision.
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
8,148
This gender reveal party thing is something else. Is it really that difficult to understand that pushing gendered expectations on your child before they are even born might not be the kind of thing you want to celebrate?

This party completely erases any other option but Blue or Pink, and ignores the agency of the child in that decision.
...yup.

"but why don't you like fun"
"they're harmless"
 

Tezz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,055
Wonder if they'd feel the same way about it if you decided your child was non-binary at such a party.
 

JKuch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
518
It's clear that the "no fun allowed" posts are complaining about how we are pointing out that gender reveal parties are transphobic, but they can't straight up say that because they know they would get banned for dismissing concerns over transphobia.
 

Tezz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,055
You know, my first thought when I saw the thread title was that it was a sort of coming out party. Now I'm thinking it should be coopted in that way. Throw gender reveals later in life. Then you can personally enjoy your gender colored cake with supportive friends.

Edit: just don't cause any explosions...
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
8,148
Wonder if they'd feel the same way about it if you decided your child was non-binary at such a party.
Can you imagine the meltdown.

It's clear that the "no fun allowed" posts are complaining about how we are pointing out that gender reveal parties are transphobic, but they can't straight up say that because they know they would get banned for dismissing concerns over transphobia.


You know, my first thought when I saw the thread title was that it was a sort of coming out party. Now I'm thinking it should be coopted in that way. Throw gender reveals later in life. Then you can personally enjoy your gender colored cake with supportive friends.

Edit: just don't cause any explosions...
Same, thought it was some horrific transphobic attack. Yep, let people celebrate their own gender.
 

kittens

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,694
Even the woman who invented/popularized gender reveal parties says they're inaccurate and problematic


Edit: Oh I see this was brought up in the OP in the other thread too. I'm not gonna bother reading the rest of that thread...
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
8,148
Even the woman who invented/popularized gender reveal parties says it's not the best idea
Now let me mischaracterize her argument and just say that she hates fun and ask if she's the only person that's allowed to decide what's fun?
..because that's totally arguing in good faith.
 

Lozange

Member
Oct 25, 2017
500
Coming out as ___ gender needs more celebration and less sadness in general. It *should* be celebrated with a party. You've figured out who you are! That's a good thing.
Meanwhile a gender reveal of a baby celebrates. Uh. Being locked into arbitrary gender expectations?
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,309
The English Wilderness
People cling to pre-defined identities because the alternative scares them - it forces them to ask questions of their own identities, their own choices. Easier, then, to just go along with the majority and live in blissful ignorance. To swallow the proverbial blue pill.

And yes, I'm going to use Matrix terminology, despite certain terrible groups co-opting it, because that's what the original film was about, and I'll be damned if I'm letting the alt-Right steal it from us.
 

Madison

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
6,427
Lima, Peru
Baby gender reveal:

-Transphobic
-Who cares
-No surprise, only 50/50 chances

Adult gender reveal:

-Fun
-Tons of possible options
-Im happy to know how you identify as
 

Eusis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,541
Heh... I hadn't seriously thought to call gender reveal parties transphobic, but even at best it occupies a similar sphere: happily seeing the first sign of what the body's developing as, and letting that write out everything about what the kid will be like and slotting them into a hole, even if they may end up non-comforming, trans (especially non-binary), or maybe even conforming but just finding THAT kind of presentation distasteful for their preferences.
 

Tezz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,055
People cling to pre-defined identities because the alternative scares them - it forces them to ask questions of their own identities, their own choices. Easier, then, to just go along with the majority and live in blissful ignorance. To swallow the proverbial blue pill.
Yeah, sometime ago I was defending that I shave my legs to a friend. I tried to point out that the demarcation between men and women is really just a bunch of arbitrary nonsense, but he in turn defended those traditional markers because he "likes that they exist". I don't remember getting an answer why, but I think it's pretty obviously for the reasons you suggested.
 

Bradbury

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,075
Yeah, sometime ago I was defending that I shave my legs to a friend. I tried to point out that the demarcation between men and women is really just a bunch of arbitrary nonsense, but he in turn defended those traditional markers because he "likes that they exist". I don't remember getting an answer why, but I think it's pretty obviously for the reasons you suggested.
I shave both my legs and arms because I don´t like the way it feels, and oh boy, I had to listen my family talking about how weird it is, thank god after some time they realize I was not going to stop and just shut up
 

i love tacos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
38
Yeah, sometime ago I was defending that I shave my legs to a friend. I tried to point out that the demarcation between men and women is really just a bunch of arbitrary nonsense, but he in turn defended those traditional markers because he "likes that they exist". I don't remember getting an answer why, but I think it's pretty obviously for the reasons you suggested.
While I would prefer to live in a world without those expectations, I think it’s important to let others who are comfortable with the current norms know that I‘m not asking to take away their identity or gender expression, or even that they can’t have an ideal of masculinity they personally aim for. I just want there to be room for those who don’t feel the same to feel free to express themselves too. No one is going to force them to step outside their gender comfort zone, I just want them to allow me the same courtesy.

I might have to try shaving my legs to see how I feel about it. That’s something that I can hide to prevent unwanted attention.
 

Eusis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,541
I shave both my legs and arms because I don´t like the way it feels, and oh boy, I had to listen my family talking about how weird it is, thank god after some time they realize I was not going to stop and just shut up
Heh, before I even started transitioning I actually got no comment on when I did shave my arms. I blame the combo of something of light brown, not too dense hair with HEAVY freckles underneath. Hell, it didn't even stand out too much for me.
 

Tezz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,055
I shave both my legs and arms because I don´t like the way it feels, and oh boy, I had to listen my family talking about how weird it is, thank god after some time they realize I was not going to stop and just shut up
Oh yeah, I experienced this in spades. I even got, "I hope this phase ends eventually" from my father. That was maybe two years now? Lol. They've also given up on talking about it.
In fact, that was perhaps the most extreme for them, cause now anything else I do that deviates from gender norms goes unnoticed, e.g., my hair, my nails, conservative use of makeup. I haven't really pushed much further though.

While I would prefer to live in a world without those expectations, I think it’s important to let others who are comfortable with the current norms know that I‘m not asking to take away their identity or gender expression, or even that they can’t have an ideal of masculinity they personally aim for. I just want there to be room for those who don’t feel the same to feel free to express themselves too. No one is going to force them to step outside their gender comfort zone, I just want them to allow me the same courtesy.
I don't disagree, but in my friend's case, it really comes from a place of bigotry. He's a conservative evangelical, and has made disparaging comments about queer folks in the past. He's toned it down since he learned his brother is bi, and since his views have put him at odds with the rest of our group. But I know his attitude hasn't changed, he's simply doing what he must in order to remain peaceable.
 

Bradbury

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,075
Oh yeah, I experienced this in spades. I even got, "I hope this phase ends eventually" from my father. That was maybe two years now? Lol. They've also given up on talking about it.
In fact, that was perhaps the most extreme for them, cause now anything else I do that deviates from gender norms goes unnoticed, e.g., my hair, my nails, conservative use of makeup. I haven't really pushed much further though.
I´m waiting for a emo nostalgia party I´m going next month to try to start trojan horse make up and nails into my house lol
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,707
People cling to pre-defined identities because the alternative scares them - it forces them to ask questions of their own identities, their own choices. Easier, then, to just go along with the majority and live in blissful ignorance. To swallow the proverbial blue pill.

And yes, I'm going to use Matrix terminology, despite certain terrible groups co-opting it, because that's what the original film was about, and I'll be damned if I'm letting the alt-Right steal it from us.
It's only scary because everyone knows exploring your identity risks opening you up to discrimination and abuse. Exploring your identity should be exciting. People love making stories about self-discovery. But the very first thing I jumped to when I started was the danger I could potentially be in.
 

asagami_

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,391
Mexico
I'm pretty sure I say Hi in the Trans thread, but I think my reality is a lot different than trans people and that's why some months ago I started to self-identify as non-binary.

1. What are your pronouns?
He. She would be fine, but I'm fine with he.

2. How do you like to describe your gender / identity? Are there any terms, identities, or affinities you like to evoke in describing yourself?
It's weird. As I was growing I always feel like a "girl" inside, and as I said at certain point of my life I thought I was trans, but I'm not thanks to meet trans people and know their struggles and how they feel. I enjoy have a masculine persona, have beard and like have facial hair. But I don't feel I'm completely a man, and I wish being a woman too, and wear cute feminine clothes wearing black tights.

3. In your experience, does being non-binary feel like having no gender, many genders, fluctuating genders, or both / neither?
I think can be many thing. There's nothing defined.

4. What's your favorite thing about being non-binary? What's your least favorite? What's something that has surprised you?
The least favorite thing about being NB is I don't have feminine clothes and I don't know if I would like wear them in public. Selfishly I think I would only feel 100% feminine with a SO.

5. Has any people, media, art, music, etc. inspired your non-binary self-actualization? If so please share & feel free to elaborate!
I have liked anime for years and my favorite characters are almost always women. Sometimes I think I would like be them. If I happen to like a guy... is because it's a bit broken (Fakir from Princess Tutu, Guts from Berserk) or because he's pretty inspiring (like Kou from Cross Game, and that's my standard so only him)

I have to say I tend to feel less identified with men.

6. Is there anything else you'd like to share or say?
I'm not sure if it's thanks to Gun's and Roses, but my middle name is Michelle. Only my family call me by my middle name, and I would love my SO calls me that way. It notes I'm very lonely? Sorry <_<

I did the test btw, I think it reveal pretty well my struggles.

 
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JKuch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
518
Everyone is doing it, so I did it too. :P



Although I left a bunch of the answers right in the middle. lol
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,309
The English Wilderness
Gotta admit, those "gender identity tests" get some serious side-eye from me since they play to the very stereotypes we're arguing against.

"Oh, you're emotional? Three points to femininity! A little bit competetive? Two points to masculinity!"
 

JKuch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
518
Gotta admit, those "gender identity tests" get some serious side-eye from me since they play to the very stereotypes we're arguing against.

"Oh, you're emotional? Three points to femininity! A little bit competetive? Two points to masculinity!"
Yeah, I feel similarly, I wanted to see what it was all about since I see it so often in trans spaces online and kinda left disappointed, also the test itself is setup in kinda of a dumb way I feel. lol
 

Delphine

Moderator
Mar 30, 2018
1,701
France
Gotta admit, those "gender identity tests" get some serious side-eye from me since they play to the very stereotypes we're arguing against.

"Oh, you're emotional? Three points to femininity! A little bit competetive? Two points to masculinity!"

Yeah I agree, I feel they're more relevant to get what our gender expression might be, but not what our gender identity would be.
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
8,148
Gotta admit, those "gender identity tests" get some serious side-eye from me since they play to the very stereotypes we're arguing against. "Oh, you're emotional? Three points to femininity! A little bit competetive? Two points to masculinity!"
Feel the same. Can be a bit of a laugh to see what arbitrary things they throw in each bucket but I dislike how it paints the ‘effeminate man’ argument for bigots.
 

Lozange

Member
Oct 25, 2017
500
Yeah count me among people who are skeptical regarding online tests, as fun as they are. Saying non binary is "not 100% a traditional man, and not 100% a traditional woman" is a useful way of broadly describing a lot of different people, and I think in the best cases these tests can align with that viewpoint, but even with this I'm not entirely sure to encompasses everyone, or even only encompasses non binary people. You can reject the idea of the gender binary, but still happen to fit into it by coincidence, I think. And many people who are gender non-confirming aren't non-binary; Men are working to reject toxic masculinity, and women have been fighting against the restrictive side of femininity for years. And then some people are just super NB presenting despite their gender because why not.

I believe personally that it's possible for some cis people to be (in some ways) more "non binary" than some actual non binary people, going by our current understanding and language used in the conversation surrounding gender. And in some ways, this sucks because it makes discussion difficult as to what exactly non binary means. But equally, here we are.

...I don't know what I'm saying. Gender hard.