Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation |OT11| All Hell Has Broken Loose. CONTEST INSIDE!

What should we do?

  • Go to the Winchester

    Votes: 64 18.3%
  • Have a nice cold pint

    Votes: 79 22.6%
  • Wait for all of this to blow over

    Votes: 85 24.3%
  • Would anybody like a walnut?

    Votes: 18 5.1%
  • I bet mooses eat walnuts

    Votes: 39 11.1%
  • A can of pineapples

    Votes: 27 7.7%
  • HAIR

    Votes: 38 10.9%

  • Total voters
    350

Hudsoniscool

Member
Jun 5, 2018
1,454
Oh, well, I can see >$499 for MS given the BOM estimate, but I don't think Sony comes in less than $449.
with the expected BOM of 450$ you expect Sony to sell ps5 less than that.
With the expected BOM of 460-520$ you expect Microsoft at more than 499$.
What’s the reason why Sony will sell at a 50$ loss or more and Microsoft won’t?
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,076
I think some of the speculation is getting mixed up with actual reliable info.

For all see know, it could have been $440 and got pushed up.


Yeah, makes things even more interesting now if the Series X is on the higher side of those estimates.

Not the specs.....but the final retail price.
Yes, I agree with you
 
Oct 29, 2017
2,601
All this talk of MS sandwiching Sony with its 2 machines, we can’t rule out Sony doing something similar. Maybe instead of hardware upgrades a couple of years in, we might see hardware downgrades at lower entry level prices.
 

LordBlodgett

Member
Jan 10, 2020
223
And let's be fair here... nowhere have they said they don't want to release info/pricing before MS. That's just one of those theories that we ook up in here then it takes a life of its own.
From the Bloomberg article:

"People within the PlayStation business unit said a key factor in deciding the ultimate PlayStation 5 retail price will be where Microsoft sets its price for the next-generation Xbox Series X. Microsoft is widely expected to hold that information back until the E3 gaming expo in Los Angeles in June."
 

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,439
All this talk of MS sandwiching Sony with its 2 machines, we can’t rule out Sony doing something similar. Maybe instead of hardware upgrades a couple of years in, we might see hardware downgrades at lower entry level prices.
There are no rumors or any sort of smoke to consider Sony doing a 2 console approach similar to MS.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,638
To be fair... MS hasn't said anting either. More so, being silent doesn't mean there is some sort of problem. It could just mean that when they do talk they want to have a lot o meaningful things to say and show. Oh, nothing was officially said of the XB1 until May 2013. A whole 3 months after sony did their full reveal. That has nothing to do with why MS lost this gen, and even if sony remains silent til may or after mS does their own full reveal, it wouldn't change anything. What I think is important is what is said when something is actually said.
Thank you! Some of the strange hot takes I'm seeing are hurting my head. At this point for the PS4 the reveal event hadn't even happened yet and we had no official word from Sony at all on the console other than the date for the event. This time in comparison we've received a buttload of info from including the console name, general hardware info, launch period, controller features and they've even talked about an exclusive launch title with Bluepoint's next game.

People acting like no info in Feb means doom and gloom for Sony are massively overreacting for no reason at all (even though it's happening on Feb 26th so I can get my tag!). When the official reveal happens I hope these people take the time to reflect on how silly these doom and gloom sentiments were.
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,076
with the expected BOM of 450$ you expect Sony to sell ps5 less than that.
With the expected BOM of 460-520$ you expect Microsoft at more than 499$.
What’s the reason why Sony will sell at a 50$ loss or more and Microsoft won’t?
The BOM is only the bottom floor of what it costs to get that product to market. Multiple industry experts are saying they wouldn't flinch to see the final costs to MS or Sony be $50 higher than the BOM. Its all been posted here in the last few pages.

And no, I didn't say Sony will sell for less than that. I have been saying $450 for Sony, $499 for XSX. I think those are minimum prices where they are already eating $50.

With the power of dreams.
you are good *finger wagging
 

Colbert

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,780
Germany
I want to change topic away from the doom and gloom and PS5 pricing because I think Sony and PS5 will do just fine whatever they chose as pricing and spec.

They are the stronghold in europe and I cannot believe that the majority of playstation only gamers - all their life so far - will jump ship to Xbox especially MS is so bad in marketing here in Europe (from my Germany experience).

What is actually more interesting to me is how members on the february chop block feel!

I mean with an assumed 10 work days setup period for invitations to the members of the press February is almost over (even we have not reached the end of february).

Transistor
For those people, is it allowed to change the bet or do they have to stay where they are now? Because that is a lot of work coming at you for all those shiny avatars!
 

AegonSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,089
Zhuge said BOM + manufacturing costs for Xbox. Seems everyone is forgetting this distinction.

Which puts PS5 and XSX on a more level playing field of $450 vs $460 for BOM.

Regardless, a $540 total cost for XSX would point to a $599 price-point. I don't think that's a price point the mainstream gaming market is going to be able to swallow easily, regardless of any difference in hardware performance (and even a 12 vs 9TF difference wouldn't be able to justify that kind of price differential).
So lets map this out. Sony is 450. MS $460. They have $70-80 more to play with.

Last gen on 28nm, it cost Sony $100 for a 350mm2 die. MS paid $110 for 380mm2. 405mm2 would mean $120.

Are we expecting the costs to remain stagnant? AMD said 7nm is almost twice as expensive as 28nm. That would put the die cost at $200-240 and blow past the $70-80 extra budget they have given themselves.

Let's assume, the costs to fabricate the silicon are the same. We still have SSDs which are at least twice as expensive as HDDs were last gen. So thats an extra $37.

That leaves them $33 for a bigger chip, any extra RAM costs (goodbye HBM), audio chip, new controller features, cooling etc. Though they did say that cooling apparently only costs a few dollars now. I paid $90 for a liquid heatsink recently. i doubt that thing only cost a few dollars to make.

If the fab costs are the same as last gen, I can see both Sony and MS going with 400mm2 APUs with that $450 budget. But i highly doubt that. Remember Pachter said $1000 ps5. turns out it was less than half that. but ruthenticcookie said that they were going to take a $100 loss and sell at $499, that points to a BOM over $500 but less than $550. we know that thats no longer the case either.
 

LordBlodgett

Member
Jan 10, 2020
223
IMO, Sony is only going in at $499 if MS does $599. If the XSX is $499, they'll do $399 and eat a sizeable loss.
What is your reasoning here? Sony is the market leader, why do they need to eat massive losses out of the gate?

If the BOM for Sony is $450 and Microsoft $460-490 I don't know why either of the console makers would price at over $499, but on the other hand I have no idea why Sony would want to come out of the gate losing $100 per console.....It really makes no sense when you are the leader.....
 

Cake Boss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,852
Lol time for Ebgames to offer subsidized consoles with monthly plans that include interest like cell phones. Maybe this would save that company.
 

Colbert

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,780
Germany
Once it's in the roster it's locked in
Uh oh.

When Feb is over I have to change my member detection from avatar picture to reading the actual name ...

Another question.
Let's assume the reveal is 1st of March: What happens to all the bets after that date. Have they all to wear that "avatar of shame"? And for how long? Until console release?
 

IkarugaDE

Member
Feb 3, 2020
73
Uh oh.

When Feb is over I have to change my member detection from avatar picture to reading the actual name ...

Another question.
Let's assume the reveal is 1st of March: What happens to all the bets after that date. Have they all to wear that "avatar of shame"? And for how long? Until console release?
Exactly that's the case!

Genau so ist es! :P
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,076
If the fab costs are the same as last gen, I can see both Sony and MS going with 400mm2 APUs with that $450 budget. But i highly doubt that. Remember Pachter said $1000 ps5. turns out it was less than half that. but ruthenticcookie said that they were going to take a $100 loss and sell at $499, that points to a BOM over $500 but less than $550. we know that thats no longer the case either.
Damn I was just about to post that quote from Pachter.
 

Kyolux

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,370
NCR, Canada
Uh oh.

When Feb is over I have to change my member detection from avatar picture to reading the actual name ...

Another question.
Let's assume the reveal is 1st of March: What happens to all the bets after that date. Have they all to wear that "avatar of shame"? And for how long? Until console release?
It's after console release. It won't be 1st of March but March 4th. 😏

Just did a quick count and there's currently 199 people that made the bet.

Only 4 so far of these 199 have failed their bet.

Damn I was just about to post that quote from Pachter.
That was such a weird take. Guess it was a misunderstanding of costs on his part?
 

Nobunny

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
944
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm actually curious about what PS5's camera and it's related features would have been.
 

Gamechanger87

Member
Oct 25, 2017
989
Sony will launch a 500GB console at $399 and sell a proprietary SSD starting at 1TB for $150 to recover the losses.

All they need is a COD to launch and they are back in business.
 

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,439
not saying its not $499, i am talking about people who are saying $549 price point or even higher, which makes no sense.
That would be dependent on if Sony is looking to be profitable on hardware from day 1 or not since BOM doesn't include other costs that go into determining the MSRP/RRP.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm actually curious about what PS5's camera and it's related features would have been.
The camera portion was in regards to Sony's mirrorless cameras, not a camera for the PS5. They're prioritizing nand for the PS5 rather than their new camera causing them tonah e to cut features in this year's product.
 

Hudsoniscool

Member
Jun 5, 2018
1,454
The BOM is only the bottom floor of what it costs to get that product to market. Multiple industry experts are saying they wouldn't flinch to see the final costs to MS or Sony be $50 higher than the BOM. Its all been posted here in the last few pages.

And no, I didn't say Sony will sell for less than that. I have been saying $450 for Sony, $499 for XSX. I think those are minimum prices where they are already eating $50.


you are good *finger wagging
Ok I misunderstood you then.
 

Basarili

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,302
Haarlem
$399 will be next gen’s 8GB GDDR5 moment.
Never looked it from that perspective.
If Sony manage to package:
3.2Ghz 8C/16T Zen 2, 9.2TF Navi w/ RT, 16GB GDDR6 and 1TB super fast SSD

For $399 then that is a very compelling product even if we here would rather have a 12TF $499 version. The average buyer is way more price conscious than we are. Such a machine would probably sell better than the one we want.
Hmm Sony you reading this?
Man this thead has been going places (not particularly productive places) since last night lol.

I've been preparing myself mentally for a long time now, but a minimum $649 launch price PS5 is going to hurt.

Really hoping I can get $200 off trading-in a pro.

It was just one person that I've seen? My 649+ price was in CAD.

They are the stronghold in europe and I cannot believe that the majority of playstation only gamers - all their life so far - will jump ship to Xbox especially MS is so bad in marketing here in Europe (from my Germany experience).
Same counts for The Netherlands. No matter what Playstation always was the winner here even at 360 times.
 

Kyolux

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,370
NCR, Canada
Never looked it from that perspective.


Hmm Sony you reading this?








Same counts for The Netherlands. No matter what Playstation always was the winner here even at 360 times.
lol. I don't see why I would need to specify when Americans don't specify USD. Even took the time to add Canada to my profile because I wanted to avoid these reactions.
 

Rösti

Member
Oct 25, 2017
582
Has this been talked about?

Unreal Engine for Next-Gen Games
12:30 PM - 1:30 PM
Take a look at new and existing Unreal Engine features designed for next-gen game development.

The Future of Unreal Rendering
2:15 PM - 3:00 PM
Get a sneak peek at yet-to-be-released Unreal Engine rendering technology.
Source: https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/find-out-what-s-next-at-gdc-2020

Unreal Engine for Next-Gen Games (Presented by Epic Games)

Epic Games Engineering Directors James Golding and Marcus Wassmer will discuss upcoming improvements to Unreal Engine that will support the next generation of consoles and games, spanning the gamut from developer workflows to final pixels.

The Future of Unreal Rendering (Presented by Epic Games)

Jerome Platteaux, Lead Artist, Brian Karis, Technical Director - Graphics, and Krzysztof Narkowicz, Lead Programmer - Graphics, will demonstrate practical examples of yet-to-be-released Unreal Engine rendering technology. They will discuss improvements in lighting technology and scene construction, and the resulting benefits for content creators.
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,076
It's after console release. It won't be 1st of March but March 4th. 😏

Just did a quick count and there's currently 199 people that made the bet.

Only 4 so far of these 199 have failed their bet.



That was such a weird take. Guess it was a misunderstanding of costs on his part?
Yeah, no idea. maybe equivalent cost to spec it out for PC? Dunno.
Ok I misunderstood you then.
No worries.

Does anyone think the Bloomberg article is a fake or not well sourced?
Not saying I do- just wondering.
 

Heidern

Member
Oct 30, 2017
185
Connecticut
I still think we see the $399 price which makes it hard for MS to either match price with Series X and/or reduces the sticker appeal of Series S. This talk of managing production makes me think that they'll try really hard to reduce the number of "overpriced" consoles that get built with parts that have unexpectedly higher prices.
 

EsqBob

Member
Nov 7, 2017
210
🤔 What if you bet that PS5 will be revealed in 2021? Then you can lose the bet and not get a new avatar, because rules say you keep the new avatar until PS5 launches. You bet for free!
 

Nobunny

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
944
The camera portion was in regards to Sony's mirrorless cameras, not a camera for the PS5. They're prioritizing nand for the PS5 rather than their new camera causing them tonah e to cut features in this year's product.
Ah, that makes sense and thanks for the clarification... we've had a few PS5 camera rumors in the past, just assumed it was related to that.
 

Kyolux

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,370
NCR, Canada
Yeah, no idea. maybe equivalent cost to spec it out for PC? Dunno.
No worries.

Does anyone think the Bloomberg article is a fake or not well sourced?
Not saying I do- just wondering.
But he put the Xbox comparatively much lower. So weird.


🤔 What if you bet that PS5 will be revealed in 2021? Then you can lose the bet and not get a new avatar, because rules say you keep the new avatar until PS5 launches. You bet for free!
After reveal, everyone with a date further loses.
 

Blanquito

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
233
Has this been talked about?


Source: https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/find-out-what-s-next-at-gdc-2020




ah that's cool. Should be some good info there
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
8,553
That would be dependent on if Sony is looking to be profitable on hardware from day 1 or not since BOM doesn't include other costs that go into determining the MSRP/RRP.
and why do you think the hardware will be profitable from day 1? its nonsense when the PS4 wasnt, and the games division was making much less money back then,
 

LavaBadger

Member
Nov 14, 2017
2,257
Well that would be the understatement of the month. :)

We can question ourselves though as to why he came to that conclusion.
My personal conclusion is that he reached such a prediction based on his lack of understanding of the video games industry. He probably said, "Wow, iPhones sure are expensive! New consoles must be at least that much!"
 

Flutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,737

Kyolux

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,370
NCR, Canada
My personal conclusion is that he reached such a prediction based on his lack of understanding of the video games industry. He probably said, "Wow, iPhones sure are expensive! New consoles must be at least that much!"
But then why would he have said the Xbox's specs he saw semed a lot less expensive than the PS5's ones he had seen?

I'm not saying his conclusion are right. Just that it's a bit overly dismissive to just handwave it like that.