Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT7| - nm

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chris 1515

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Oct 27, 2017
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Barcelona Spain
Man, where are you reading any of this? I have stated it severally that Mark Cerny talked about a single developer porting Days Gone. I even quoted that very statement from the Eurogamer interview. I also gave a quote from Eurogamer where they stated that porting Forza's engine took two days, and the game (Forza Horizon 4) was made on higher spec then scaled down. I really struggle to see how these statements are being used liberally in an interchangeable manner.

If you have an issue with that, take it with the equipment manufacturers that also tend to have some top of the tier development houses that produce better work on their platforms than anyone else. Or are they armchair too?

You really need to stop looking at this from 'games might be downgraded' if there is a low hanging fruit because this is what game development has always been about, even more so this generation.

Did I?

Forza Engine - 2 days to port.
Days Gone - Ported by a single developer.

Forza Horizon 4 - Made on Xbox One X as lead platform and ported down.

All simple statements that can be easily counter checked. Why they are being confused despite being common knowledge is really beyond me.

So, an extension of what we have seen happen this generation cannot be something that platform holders and developers can learn from? Tools cannot get better?
Forza Motorsport and Days gone were scale up not scale down. Stop the bullshit...

There is only Forza Horizon 4 scaling down in the hundreds of game improve on midgen consoles. All other games are scale up like Forza or Days Gone.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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New game coming to next gen consoles in 2022 : A Plague Tale 2 :) With maybe a first teaser in 2020 🤞

Awesome. The first game was a great entry.
 

Red Tapir

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
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May 10, 2019
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Forza Motorsport and Days gone were scale up not scale down. Stop the bullshit...

There is only Forza Horizon 4 scaling down in the hundreds of game improve on midgen consoles. All other games are scale down like Forza or Day Gone.
Also to consider that FH4 was a game in a genre the dev had experience in, meaning they knew what the X could achieve vs the S.

In our case it would be a bunch of different devs, within different genres/engines, trying to figure out what they can actually do on little known hardware.
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
1,759

He was talking about upscaling. It isn't about downscaling.

Also I didn't talk about how easy or hard upscaling was, it's that there are some developers, like CDProjekt who chose not to and even when they did 2 years later, had a few problems that needed other patches to fix.

We are clearly talking about two different things here.
And I am saying that it really shouldn't matter whether you are upscaling or down scaling. If you are porting up/down and you run into issues, what do you do? You debug. You then eventually get resolutions being dynamic so that frame rates can hold....it is toggling of settings until you get the balance right.
In performance modes where you get higher framerates, you are simply sacrificing resolution.......basically what we currently see is what we could see if there is Lockhart or another mid gen refresh.

It is not new, it is not strange. You can work from either end, and that was the point I was making before the focus on semantics came to the fore.
Forza Motorsport and Das gone were scale up not scale down. Stop the bullshit...

There is only one games in the hundreds of game improve on midgen consoles, scale down For Horizon 4. All othet games are scale down like Forza or Day Gone.
Are you reading before posting? Where have I stated that Days Gone was ported up?
Where have I stated that Forza Motorsport was ported up?
I have stated, and provided links to show that Days Gone was ported by a single developer according to Cerny. That Forzatech (the engine) was ported in two days, and simply stated that Forza Horizon 4 (the game) was developed on Xbox One X as lead platform.

None of those statements is false. If you think they are, I would love for you to prove me wrong.
Unfortunately we just don't have up to date quotes from developers pertaining to what they can or can't do with the upcoming hardware and tools to conclusively say how truly "easy" it is.

You're free to speculate, you could be right, but old quotes may just be old quotes. These type of things are rarely as cut and dry as the PR makes them seem, so I'm happy to wait and let developers speak for themselves.
What we have is statements from manufacturers that have development teams. It seems like people are really going out of their way here and I wonder why.
 

Flutter

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Oct 25, 2017
6,624
And I am saying that it really shouldn't matter whether you are upscaling or down scaling. If you are porting up/down and you run into issues, what do you do? You debug. You then eventually get resolutions being dynamic so that frame rates can hold....it is toggling of settings until you get the balance right.
In performance modes where you get higher framerates, you are simply sacrificing resolution.......basically what we currently see is what we could see if there is Lockhart or another mid gen refresh.

It is not new, it is not strange. You can work from either end, and that was the point I was making before the focus on semantics came to the fore.

Are you reading before posting? Where have I stated that Days Gone was ported up?
Where have I stated that Forza Motorsport was ported up?
I have stated, and provided links to show that Days Gone was ported by a single developer according to Cerny. That Forzatech (the engine) was ported in two days, and simply stated that Forza Horizon 4 (the game) was developed on Xbox One X as lead platform.

None of those statements is false. If you think they are, I would love for you to prove me wrong.

What we have is statements from manufacturers that have development teams. It seems like people are really going out of their way here and I wonder why.
oh my lord...

Ok I give up.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,841
Barcelona Spain
And I am saying that it really shouldn't matter whether you are upscaling or down scaling. If you are porting up/down and you run into issues, what do you do? You debug. You then eventually get resolutions being dynamic so that frame rates can hold....it is toggling of settings until you get the balance right.
In performance modes where you get higher framerates, you are simply sacrificing resolution.......basically what we currently see is what we could see if there is Lockhart or another mid gen refresh.

It is not new, it is not strange. You can work from either end, and that was the point I was making before the focus on semantics came to the fore.

Are you reading before posting? Where have I stated that Days Gone was ported up?
Where have I stated that Forza Motorsport was ported up?
I have stated, and provided links to show that Days Gone was ported by a single developer according to Cerny. That Forzatech (the engine) was ported in two days, and simply stated that Forza Horizon 4 (the game) was developed on Xbox One X as lead platform.

None of those statements is false. If you think they are, I would love for you to prove me wrong.

What we have is statements from manufacturers that have development teams. It seems like people are really going out of their way here and I wonder why.
And your example are insignifiant because the debate is on scaling down out of Forza Horizon 4 you have no argument at all. People don't care than scaling up is easy for Days Gone and Forza Motorsport, this is not what I and other people talk about. I don't know why you talk of scaling up when the problem is scaling down. Like I said one game on hundreds of game on midgen was scaling down and dev told than scale up was the solution for Lockhart and he feedback they gave to is that it would cause trouble for Microsoft with inferior Anaconda version compared to PS5. This is what people with true knowledge said and the reason Microsoft cancelled Lockhart.

This is the only truth. Other stuff you posted have no place inside the debate. Other example are downport to Switch for example, at least this is example of scaling down but a bit to extreme to be compared with Lockhart.
 

Colbert

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Oct 27, 2017
4,750
Germany
Just in case we are looking for a new thread title:
Next-gen PS5 and next Xbox speculation launch thread |OT8| - Going crazy
 

gremlinz1982

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Aug 11, 2018
1,759
And your example are insignifiant because the debate is on scaling down out of Forza Horizon 4 you have no argument at all. People don't care than scaling up is easy for Days Gone and Forza Motorsport, this is not what I and other people talk about. i don't know why you talk of scaling up when the problem is scaling down..Like I said one game on hundreds of game on midgen was scaling down and dev told than scale up was the solution for Lockhart and he would cause trouble for Microsoft with inferior Anaconda version compared to PS5. This is what people with true knowledge said and the reason Microsoft understood Lockhart will lead them to trouble with inferior version of multiplatform game aqnd to cancel it.

This is the only truth. Other stuff you posted have no place inside the debate. Other example are downport to Switch for example, at least this is example of scaling down.
My man, stick to one line of argument, and argue it well enough.

You have been replying to me. In one of my responses, I stated that if third parties are concerned about what their games may look like, why not start with Anaconda variant and then port down? I gave the example of Forza Horizon 4 as evidence that it could be done. It was a simple statement that was verifiable.

You then went on about cost, which is something you never ever backed up. Went on to strawman debates like armchair developer and stating that I was telling lies. And now we are back here, to step one, where you are looking to limit debate, I wonder why.
 

Mack

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May 30, 2019
1,285
Is it that hard for people to comprehend that scaling up is easier than scaling down? Geez.
 

Jeffram

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,081
There maybe a story here that makes the conflicting reports a little less conflicting. This is just my speculation:

2017-2018: Microsoft plans Anaconda + Lockhart (1 beefy full cost console and 1 lower price console to drive a competitive advantage). At this stage Lockhart could be a lower spec'd console that runs game locally OR if Xcloud is successful, a streaming box. MS starts floating the idea of a lower spec console to Devs.
2019 (early) - Lockhart as a local compute console is cancelled due to feedback and xCloud looking promising. Devs will only have to develop for 1 spec. This is the news we hear. Lockhart wasn't cancelled as a streaming box, and there is no need to talk to devs about it since the box itself if inconsequential to the development.
2019 (late) - MS starts working on sourcing the streaming device, still named lockhart. Devs aren't hiring about it (klee, Matt sources), but MS hardware people are (Warren, Sams). Lockhart is going to be a streaming box. Devs aren't going to get surprised withe a new spec <1 year from release.

I might just want this to be true, because I hate the idea of Lockhart anchoring the entire generation.
 

chris 1515

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Oct 27, 2017
3,841
Barcelona Spain
My man, stick to one line of argument, and argue it well enough.

You have been replying to me. In one of my responses, I stated that if third parties are concerned about what their games may look like, why not start with Anaconda variant and then port down? I gave the example of Forza Horizon 4 as evidence that it could be done. It was a simple statement that was verifiable.

You then went on about cost, which is something you never ever backed up. Went on to strawman debates like armchair developer and stating that I was telling lies. And now we are back here, to step one, where you are looking to limit debate, I wonder why.
Because it cost more and it is more difficult than scale up. Like I said before they have more platform than Playground games.
 

AegonSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,203
“In fact due to contractual constraints AMD must supply the most powerful APU to Sony”

LOL
lmao. spinningbirdkick is alive and well on pastebin.

i like tom warren but didnt Phil say that they just got done shipping thousands of devkits? maybe they are in the mail.

iirc jason said that the devkits were being sent out way back in april. maybe they were the early ones and these are based on the near final silicon?
 

Jeffram

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,081
“In fact due to contractual constraints AMD must supply the most powerful APU to Sony”

LOL
I deal with sourcing large corporate contracts in the hundreds of millions of dollars (nothing tech related) and this is actually a thing that happens. Not saying I believe it, just that it's feesable.

EDIT: These types of commitments are more likely when there is competition from vendors, in this case I'm not sure what leverage Sony would have had to pull it off. They would have had to threaten to go Intel and or Nvidia.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,841
Barcelona Spain
lmao. spinningbirdkick is alive and well on pastebin.



i like tom warren but didnt Phil say that they just got done shipping thousands of devkits? maybe they are in the mail.

iirc jason said that the devkits were being sent out way back in april. maybe they were the early ones and these are based on the near final silicon?
There are tons of mid tier or indie developer without Scarlett devkit, believe me. Out of some studios of the big publisher like EA, Activision Blizzard, Ubi Soft, Bethesda and so on...

Edit: tomwarren said many studios don't have Scarlett devkits is true. The studio without Scarlett devkit work with PC and target specs.
 

melodiousmowl

Member
Jan 14, 2018
2,393
CT
I deal with sourcing large corporate contracts in the hundreds of millions of dollars (nothing tech related) and this is actually a thing that happens. Not saying I believe it, just that it's feesable.

EDIT: These types of commitments are more likely when there is competition from vendors, in this case I'm not sure what leverage Sony would have had to pull it off. They would have had to threaten to go Intel and or Nvidia.
going to intel, nvidia, arm, not gonna happen either for cost or changing isa.

i can’t imagine any scenario where sony would get to know what ms requested to build, so i’d just discount this blathering out of hand.
 

Munki

Member
Apr 30, 2019
194
There is tons of mid tier developer without Scarlett devkit, believe me. Out of some studios of the big publisher like EA, Activision Blizzard, Ubi Soft, Bethesda and so on...

Edit: tomwarren said many studios don't have Scarlett devkits is true. The studio without Scarlett devkit work with PC and target specs.
How would you even know this?
 

AegonSnake

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,203
I deal with sourcing large corporate contracts in the hundreds of millions of dollars (nothing tech related) and this is actually a thing that happens. Not saying I believe it, just that it's feesable.

EDIT: These types of commitments are more likely when there is competition from vendors, in this case I'm not sure what leverage Sony would have had to pull it off. They would have had to threaten to go Intel and or Nvidia.
why would MS allow this? MS has more money than Sony. If Sony can threaten to go with Nvidia then so can MS.

And AMD knows neither of them had any leverage because due to BC they are both pretty much forced to stick with AMD next gen. Besides, if there was a contract, MS wouldve known about it and they wouldnt have said the bit about setting the power benchmark last year.
 

gremlinz1982

Member
Aug 11, 2018
1,759
Because it cost more and it is more difficult than scale up. Like I said before they have more platform than Playground games.
Playstation 4 is a single platform with two variants.
Xbox One is a single platform with three variants in terms of performance.
Nintendo Switch is a single platform that has two performance modes.

They are already making games to meet different performance profiles. On the high end spectrum, they are already playing around with performance modes......essentially all they would need to do with several models of another console. Nothing new, nothing fresh.

If they are making games for PS5, use the same resources on Scarlett seeing that most think that they will be really close, toggle settings and debug.
It's an update to a very similar game though. Incidentally the enhanced X patch for FH3 was 3 months effort.

It really does not answer my question, are they alone in having content out in a weaker spec console? The answer is no! They may have advantages seeing that they are now a first party developer, but other than that?

And the reasons are given why it took three months.
 

sncvsrtoip

Banned
Apr 18, 2019
1,840
why would MS allow this? MS has more money than Sony. If Sony can threaten to go with Nvidia then so can MS.

And AMD knows neither of them had any leverage because due to BC they are both pretty much forced to stick with AMD next gen. Besides, if there was a contract, MS wouldve known about it and they wouldnt have said the bit about setting the power benchmark last year.
Have you heard about Yakuza and Kazuma Kiryu?
 

Flutter

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Oct 25, 2017
6,624
why would MS allow this? MS has more money than Sony. If Sony can threaten to go with Nvidia then so can MS.

And AMD knows neither of them had any leverage because due to BC they are both pretty much forced to stick with AMD next gen. Besides, if there was a contract, MS wouldve known about it and they wouldnt have said the bit about setting the power benchmark last year.
He is giving an assumption though.

I dont think it is, either. Since MS' partnership with AMD goes beyond just the Xbox brand,
 
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