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Intel Xe GPU Discrete graphics card rumor: Progress not going well. Lower Efficiency than Competitors

SharpX68K

Member
Nov 10, 2017
5,024


Intel Xe GPU Progress Allegedly Not Going Well, Currently Rumored To Feature Lower Efficiency Than Competitors

The rumor once again comes from Chiphell user "wjm47196", who has stated some key details regarding the Intel Xe GPU which is coming next year. The first thing which he points out is that progress on Intel Xe GPU isn't going well. Do keep in mind that this is the first iteration of the Xe GPU which is being talked about and not the 7nm revision which would be featured in the Ponte Vecchio graphics chip. For those who don't want to read through all of this, the following are the key points from the rumor:
  • Progress Isn't Going Well on Xe GPU
  • Ponte Vecchio HPC GPU May Not Launch Within the Next 2 Years (2022)
  • The efficiency of Xe GPU is really low compared to competitors
  • No AIB Support on Launch, only reference models for discrete graphics cards sold by Intel
  • Drivers need a lot of time to improve
_____________

Fucking hell if true.

I can just see Jensen Huang laughing his ass off.
 

ILikeFeet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,484
I guess all that money Intel has couldn't buy them a golden goose into the GPU market
 

devSin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,002
While it could be legit, it's also easy to predict given that Intel has failed everywhere outside x86.
 

Shoichi

Member
Jan 10, 2018
3,201
Intel slowly starting to lose CPU marketshare to AMD. At least AMD had their GPU market for years even if they have been seen as the lesser to Nvidia for the last decade or so, whereas Intel is jumping in for (I believe) the first time into dedicated GPUs.

I kind of wanted to see how well an Intel GPU could do. More competition means better prices means the good-very good GPUs could stop being $1000+ pricing (hopefully) lol
 
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SharpX68K

SharpX68K

Member
Nov 10, 2017
5,024
More bad news.

Chris Hook and Heather Lennon have both left Intel – after only a short stint in the Intel Xe graphics marketing team. Both AMD veterans, Hook left Radeon for Intel in April 2018, joining Intel as marketing lead for visual technologies. Meanwhile, Lennon departed AMD in April 2019 to become senior manager of digital marketing for graphics at Chipzilla.
As SemiAccurate reports, that’s two of Intel’s key marketing pros reportedly out on the eve of its first legitimate foray into the discrete graphics card game, which is led by ex-AMD RTG chief Raja Koduri. Both had been a part of the mass migration of AMD staff over to Intel for its upcoming dGPU project, joining the likes of Jim Keller, ex-AMD Damien Triolet, and ex-Nvidia Tom Peterson. However, it now appears both are leaving for a yet unnamed startup.

 

Astral/H3X

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,529
Intel slowly starting to lose CPU marketshare to AMD. At least AMD had their GPU market for years even if they have been seen as the lesser to Nvidia for the last decade or so, whereas Intel is jumping in for (I believe) the first time into dedicated GPUs.

I kind of wanted to see how well an Intel GPU could do. More competition means better prices means the good-very good GPUs could stop being $1000+ pricing (hopefully) lol
I mean a 2070 Super is half that already.

There will always be a "Stratosphere" tier of gpus.
 

Dreams-Visions

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
17,769
Miami, FL
Intel has been having a lot of issues lately. But this seems like a significant setback as it appeared that they really wanted to make a decent-sized splash into the GPU market in the business segment.

Not sure why this is on the gaming side, though. I don't believe they were working on anything for consumers outside of existing integrated gpu solutions, which this is not among.
 

MAK11

Member
Oct 29, 2017
291
I still want to believe he was just stifled by the lack of budget
Nah. The CPU team also lacked budget (still had more R&D ressources than the GPU side though) and look how it ended up: amazing products. Everything wrong with the latest GCN products was under his watch even though Fiji & Vega started before he came back from Apple (Polaris was 100% his shit) he managed to fuck up the execution every single time! It has been rumored since his comeback to AMD that he was trying to get Lisa Su to sell the GPU division to Intel. That's why she formed RTG so he can STFU and focus on his job instead of bitching about not wanting to share R&D resources with the CPU division etc.

Oh I just remembered that he also funneled a shit ton of RTG's $$ on bullshit projects in India ran by his pals there.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
324
Has anything gone right for Intel in regards to product development these last five years? Still a shame it's looking dead in the water, a third good option would have been great for injecting additional competition into the gpu market.
 

Shoichi

Member
Jan 10, 2018
3,201
Not sure why this is on the gaming side, though. I don't believe they were working on anything for consumers outside of existing integrated gpu solutions, which this is not among.
They've been marketing the Xe line as a dedicated GPU though? At least to compete with the mid-tier level of Nvidia/AMD cards
 

Akronis

Lizard Daddy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,998
Shame because I was hopefully counting on this to MAYBE force NVIDIA to lower prices.
 

RellikSK

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,518
They ain’t going to get it right the first time, the important thing is that they don’t give up at the first hurdle like they did with Larrabee.
 

Shoichi

Member
Jan 10, 2018
3,201
I mean a 2070 Super is half that already.

There will always be a "Stratosphere" tier of gpus.
I don't mind the stratosphere level of pricing with Titans as such. But the msrp's of the 1060's, 1070's, 1080's at least felt (to me) like they were $100-200 cheaper than their RTX equivalents. I rather have the RTX tax be lessened with more competition lol
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,357
Intel has been having a lot of issues lately. But this seems like a significant setback as it appeared that they really wanted to make a decent-sized splash into the GPU market in the business segment.

Not sure why this is on the gaming side, though. I don't believe they were working on anything for consumers outside of existing integrated gpu solutions, which this is not among.
They're lagging behind on their 7nm CPUs as well. What's happening?
 
Oct 31, 2017
2,900
Desperately need some GPU Competition...
I know people don't like to hear it because they need their villains, but if there have been only one-two companies working on that field for years is precisely because it was a very competitive market to begin with.

A scenario where a single company is "just being greedy" and racking incredibly large profit margins with little to no effort (while everyone else just sits on the sidelines watching, for some reason) simply doesn't exist.
 
Nov 8, 2017
4,419
I must have misunderstood something about the target audience for Ponte Vecchio, then. I was pretty sure that was for enterprise uses. No?
It is yeah. But the graphics division is producing products for both gaming and enterprise segments. The gaming card is expected first, in 2020 on 10nm, with Ponte Vecchio coming the following year on 7nm.
 

Dreams-Visions

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
17,769
Miami, FL

Akronis

Lizard Daddy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,998
It's okay Nvidia's Ampere drives are already undercutting the 20 series.
I doubt the cut will be significant enough compared to some actual competition. 100% expecting the 3080 Ti to MSRP for $1100 and NVIDIA playing that off as a deal.

I'll still buy it because I'm hopeless
 

JLP101

Member
Oct 25, 2017
969
The amount of money that you have to drop on R&D must be insane, there is a good reason why there is only 2 companies that even attempt discrete video cards.
 

ILikeFeet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,484
Nah. The CPU team also lacked budget (still had more R&D ressources than the GPU side though) and look how it ended up: amazing products. Everything wrong with the latest GCN products was under his watch even though Fiji & Vega started before he came back from Apple (Polaris was 100% his shit) he managed to fuck up the execution every single time! It has been rumored since his comeback to AMD that he was trying to get Lisa Su to sell the GPU division to Intel. That's why she formed RTG so he can STFU and focus on his job instead of bitching about not wanting to share R&D resources with the CPU division etc.

Oh I just remembered that he also funneled a shit ton of RTG's $$ on bullshit projects in India ran by his pals there.
it's sad that Polaris is still the most competitive AMD is at the low end until the launch of the 5500.
 
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SharpX68K

SharpX68K

Member
Nov 10, 2017
5,024
I must have misunderstood something about the target audience for Ponte Vecchio, then. I was pretty sure that this was exascale GPU systems for enterprise uses. No?
Exactly. Ponte Vecchio is for HPC and will be used in exascale supercomputers, starting with Aurora in 2021.

It's confusing somewhat. The earlier reports about Xe in 2018 mentioned two generations, codenamed Arctic Sound (2020) and Jupiter Sound (2022). I think Ponte Vecchio is an HPC variant of Arctic Sound.

More recently, and officially, Intel shows there' is "1 architecture, many microarchitectures" when it comes to Xe.

 

Prelude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
705
Did anyone expect Intel to just knock it out of the park immediately on their first discrete gpu beating both competitors?
At least RDNA is good, we're not stuck between Polaris and Nvidia's prices anymore.
 

Reinhard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,313
I know people don't like to hear it because they need their villains, but if there have been only one-two companies working on that field for years is precisely because it was a very competitive market to begin with.

A scenario where a single company is "just being greedy" and racking incredibly large profit margins with little to no effort (while everyone else just sits on the sidelines watching, for some reason) simply doesn't exist.
But that's not true with Nvidia's initial misguided foray into ray tracing. Typically the performance increase seen with the 2080 Ti (~25-40% increase depending on game) is labeled a next generation X80 card and priced around $600-700, then 8-10 months later a Ti version is released for even greater performance for $700-800ish. That didn't happen this time and instead they priced their x80 calibur card at $1100-1200+ and labelled it a Ti to help justify the $600 price increase. One problem is they significantly increased the die size for near useless Tensor cores for gaming (mostly good for AI and other professional applications) that gives mediocre picture quality via DLSS versus other upscaling techniques that don't actually increase the die size of the GPU/significantly increase the cost of the video card.... Also, throw in some underperforming Ray Tracing cores that destroy performance and get a very disappointing recipe, especially for future proofing. If the current cards can't handle ray tracing that well today, imagine games built for the PS5/Xbox Scarlett. It seems like Nvidia wasn't able to get a good enough performance increase with Turing (especially the launch non-super models) and threw in some of the cores from their professional line of video cards in hopes of hiding that fact over the allure of new tech..
 

Komo

Member
Jan 3, 2019
3,963
I doubt the cut will be significant enough compared to some actual competition. 100% expecting the 3080 Ti to MSRP for $1100 and NVIDIA playing that off as a deal.

I'll still buy it because I'm hopeless
I mean they said their undercutting the 20 series so who knows maybe it'll be 950$ for the Ti Series and the others launch at 600 under.
 

TaterTots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,425
Not surprised. This is something that will take some time for them. Will have to keep investing into it though. Lets see if they stick to it.
 

Akronis

Lizard Daddy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,998
I mean they said their undercutting the 20 series so who knows maybe it'll be 950$ for the Ti Series and the others launch at 600 under.
There's literally no reason for them to, they still own the enthusiast tier completely; maybe it'll be a bit better for the lower end cards, but I expect the Ti to be over $1000 still. There's no going back, the precedent has been set.
 

JahIthBer

Member
Jan 27, 2018
4,848
Efficiency isn't that big of a deal for PC, that's more of an issue for Consoles/Laptops/Phones tbh. If the performance is good for the price, it will sell well.
 

elzeus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,664
Maybe they just sent out their devkits because they're trying to surprise AMD.
 

Buggy Loop

Member
Oct 27, 2017
596
Raja Koduri is a hack...
Wow, is this the new "dev is lazy" equivalent?

Who the fuck are you to even says this when a handful of peoples play in these leagues as chief engineer, worldwide? Semiconductors is already tough as shit to learn (Electrical engineer myself and these were a pain in the ass even for introduction courses), at those scales it's probably the hardest thing to pull off technologically. And it's not a one man job, there's thousands of peoples behind the R&D for this, there's budget restrictions and just how much effort a company wants to put in the product. Is it just to tip their toes in the market and then refine efficiency? We don't fucking know this.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,535
Who the hell expected Intel to be anything other than behind their competitors with their first cards? And fucking lol at this shit a year before launch. Of course things are going to be a mess.
But hey, the absolute rag that is WCCFTech got some clicks.
 

squidyj

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,718
So what promising software is the cancellation of 'larabee 2' going to kill?

RIP Project Offset
 

Cipherr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,491
The price creep on GPUs is really sad. Next gen a 60 variant of the 3000 Nvidia tier is gonna be 800$ if this shit continues.

The cpu competition is fine, but damn...