Dreams - Review Thread

Where will Dreams end up?


  • Total voters
    1,705
  • Poll closed .

Orioto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,250
Paris
I’m not sure how assets shared in Dreams would be legally different from free assets in the Unity store or whatever. As long as the proper license agreement is agreed to when a created publishes the tree they just sculpted or whatever, it seems like it wouldn’t be an issue.
Yes i guesss but i don't think it's the right type of licence for now
 

Jimnymebob

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,288
Yes! there are quite a few! there is one from a user here that gets promoted quite a lot... I don't recall the game or the user lol hopefully people will let you now.
Oh, is that the one that I can't for the life of me remember the name of, with the robot, where you have things like caps lock to make the platforms bigger etc.

That's great.
 

FallenGrace

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,394
Read the prior page, it's already been said why.
Just because some people are like what you described does not mean it's a "non issue", that is completely ignoring the people who would appreciate forms of monetising there works. Patreon donations may work for some but these kind of functions built into the game would help more.
Sorry but no one is forcing them to buy Dreams, they know exactly what they are doing buying it and crafting levels. No one owes them anything for doing it. It's not a job.

I am not the artistic type, I would only buy Dreams to try some interesting things people have made. If I had to buy it then spend money to try each level? Hell no. That's the same reason I don't buy phone games or microtransaction stuff. It would kill it day 1.

If people could use it to make fully functioning games that were sold separately on PSN rather than on Dreams itself I wouldn't have an issue though as that's not the same thing but I imagine that would be a more complicated proposal.
 

Jonnykong

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,958
I wasn't planning on getting this, but it's becoming difficult to ignore these reviews.

I'm not much of a creator so I'll be focusing on playing other people's creations, the only thing holding me back is how long until I start to get bored of playing those? It didn't take me long to switch off from playing user created levels on LBP and Mario Maker.

Just don't know what to do 🤷‍♂️
 

Jimnymebob

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,288
I wasn't planning on getting this, but it's becoming difficult to ignore these reviews.

I'm not much of a creator so I'll be focusing on playing other people's creations, the only thing holding me back is how long until I start to get bored of playing those? It didn't take me long to switch off from playing user created levels on LBP and Mario Maker.

Just don't know what to do 🤷‍♂️
It is very similar to those two games in that regard, but the scope of things you can make (not just games) is infinitely larger.
 

JetroPT

Member
Jun 11, 2019
184
I wasn't planning on getting this, but it's becoming difficult to ignore these reviews.

I'm not much of a creator so I'll be focusing on playing other people's creations, the only thing holding me back is how long until I start to get bored of playing those? It didn't take me long to switch off from playing user created levels on LBP and Mario Maker.

Just don't know what to do 🤷‍♂️
I think the difference is that with Dreams there are so many different genres and art-styles that each dream can feel very unique and different from the other, unilke LBP or Mario Maker where you kinda stuck with the same 2D platfomer (more or less).
 

Raijinto

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,569
I wasn't planning on getting this, but it's becoming difficult to ignore these reviews.

I'm not much of a creator so I'll be focusing on playing other people's creations, the only thing holding me back is how long until I start to get bored of playing those? It didn't take me long to switch off from playing user created levels on LBP and Mario Maker.

Just don't know what to do 🤷‍♂️
I'm gonna give more detailed thoughts in the OT once I finish Art' Dream (the campaign so to speak) but I'm in a similar boat to you and I am finding it hard to recommend in such a way. Art's Dream is great, but most of everything else I've played is extremely shallow and a one-and-done type thing.

Like Media Molecule made a 2D platformer where you play as a drawing that slowly transforms into 3D through the level. But it's one level that takes 2 minutes if that and then that's it. And that's one of the highlights from the devs themselves.

In the context of the game all these creations are lovely and inspiring but for people like you and me that are more interested in the games than the system it's not as easy to enjoy IMO.
 

Jonnykong

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,958
I'm gonna give more detailed thoughts once I finish Art' Dream (the campaign so to speak) but I'm in a similar boat to you and I am finding it hard to recommend in such a way. Art's Dream is great, but most of everything else I've played is extremely shallow and a one-and-done type thing.

Like Media Molecule made a 2D platformer where you play as a drawing that slowly transforms into 3D through the level. But it's one level that takes 2 minutes if that and then that's it. And that's one of the highlights from the devs themselves.

In the context of the game all these creations are lovely and inspiring but for people like you and me that are more interested in the games than the system it's not as easy to enjoy IMO.
Thanks for this feedback (and the ones above). I'm going to think on it and make my decision tomorrow whilst I'm out n about shopping.

Despite the huge variation of genres on offer, I can't help but worry about how many of these user created games are going to end up being bang-average.

Maybe it's the type of game to dip in and out of once a month, when there has been ample time for some higher quality games to have been created.
 

ghostcrew

Grabbed by the Ghosties
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
10,812
I'm gonna give more detailed thoughts once I finish Art' Dream (the campaign so to speak) but I'm in a similar boat to you and I am finding it hard to recommend in such a way. Art's Dream is great, but most of everything else I've played is extremely shallow and a one-and-done type thing.

Like Media Molecule made a 2D platformer where you play as a drawing that slowly transforms into 3D through the level. But it's one level that takes 2 minutes if that and then that's it. And that's one of the highlights from the devs themselves.

In the context of the game all these creations are lovely and inspiring but for people like you and me that are more interested in the games than the system it's not as easy to enjoy IMO.
I think that’s fair and I think you have to go into Dreams with the right expectations. It’s not unlimited proper game developer quality games, it’s thousands of people flexing their creative muscles and trying stuff with a new weird engine. I think that’s awesome. I’m hoping that eventually there’s gonna be some really great proper games come out of the community and it’ll be easy to recommend a collection/playlist of them for new users. The work that some people are doing so far is incredible. But it’s gonna be an evolving concept and there’s gonna be a lot of work before we get there I’d guess. For me it’s fun to be along for the journey.

The quote from the GamePro review stuck out to me.

If you are dealing with dreams, you should keep in mind that this is primarily about celebrating creativity. The expectation of getting countless games for the price of one is not wrong, but the right scale is crucial here. Dreams creations are fascinating, precisely because they have their rough edges. It is simply beautiful to see how someone managed to implement their ideas. Being part of it is a great feeling.
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,477
I wasn't planning on getting this, but it's becoming difficult to ignore these reviews.

I'm not much of a creator so I'll be focusing on playing other people's creations, the only thing holding me back is how long until I start to get bored of playing those? It didn't take me long to switch off from playing user created levels on LBP and Mario Maker.

Just don't know what to do 🤷‍♂️
Well I'd say this game has far more variety than anything you'll encounter in Mario Maker or even LBP. Its much much more free form. I've seen everything from incredibly detailed pool games to platformers to side scrolling shoot'em ups and so on. It should get even more impressive as more people pick it up and start digging in.
 

Jobbs

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,011
And that is the point of the game. It is to go from one kick as game idea to the next in span of seconds. Just like no one goes into YouTube expecting masterclass full length films.

Expecting multiple full length AAA games in Dreams for a 40 dollar product is not the point of the game.
The novelty of surfing half baked ideas wears off after about half an hour and then you want something more. YouTube videos are complete thoughts. Dreams won't have many of those, just as YouTube wouldn't if people couldn't monetize.
 

Jonnykong

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,958
Well I'd say this game has far more variety than anything you'll encounter in Mario Maker or even LBP. Its much much more free form. I've seen everything from incredibly detailed pool games to platformers to side scrolling shoot'em ups and so on. It should get even more impressive as more people pick it up and start digging in.
I probably will end up caving and buying it tomorrow, I know how easily swayed I can be!
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,477
The novelty of surfing half baked ideas wears off after about half an hour and then you want something more. YouTube videos are complete thoughts. Dreams won't have many of those.
Maybe Dreams just isn't for you or it won't be for a few more years until some much more content packed and finely tuned games can be made.
 

Raijinto

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,569
I think that’s fair and I think you have to go into Dreams with the right expectations. It’s not unlimited proper game developer quality games, it’s thousands of people flexing their creative muscles and trying stuff with a new weird engine. I think that’s awesome. I’m hoping that eventually there’s gonna be some really great proper games come out of the community and it’ll be easy to recommend a collection/playlist of them for new users. The work that some people are doing so far is incredible. But it’s gonna be an evolving concept and there’s gonna be a lot of work before we get there I’d guess. For me it’s fun to be along for the journey.

The quote from the GamePro review stuck out to me.
Yeah this is basically where I'm at as well. I think that this is a recurring theme with these creation games- there's a certain appreciation for the creation of the levels/games that seems to be central to the main enjoyment that people get from them. Whether it's SMM or Dreams here, going from one creation to the next can be a fascinating experience in itself, particularly when they're so different.

But unless you can derive from that exclusively you're definitely missing out. I think that this is best seen in the fact that SMM2 and NSMBUD sold similar numbers in 2019 despite the former offering millions of levels to the latter's 100 or so. People like quality levels wrapped up in an accessible package. Having to delve into the creation side of things can be just as much of a turn off for many by comparison.

But yeah I'm looking forward to the end of Art's Dream which is apparently great before I am done with the game entirely. For £25 I'm not gonna complain really.
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,395
The novelty of surfing half baked ideas wears off after about half an hour and then you want something more. YouTube videos are complete thoughts. Dreams won't have many of those, just as YouTube wouldn't if people couldn't monetize.
YouTube was a giant success before people had any route to monetise what they were doing...
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,395
Yes, that one. I think it's called Great Job something... :/
 

travisbickle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,976
I'm gonna give more detailed thoughts in the OT once I finish Art' Dream (the campaign so to speak) but I'm in a similar boat to you and I am finding it hard to recommend in such a way. Art's Dream is great, but most of everything else I've played is extremely shallow and a one-and-done type thing.

Like Media Molecule made a 2D platformer where you play as a drawing that slowly transforms into 3D through the level. But it's one level that takes 2 minutes if that and then that's it. And that's one of the highlights from the devs themselves.

In the context of the game all these creations are lovely and inspiring but for people like you and me that are more interested in the games than the system it's not as easy to enjoy IMO.
A bit of context, that was made for a 2-day game jam, by a few members while they were also teaching others how to use the tools.

A highlight by Mm would be the Pier management sim.
 

Jobbs

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,011
Maybe Dreams just isn't for you or it won't be for a few more years until some much more content packed and finely tuned games can be made.
Those won't be made if people can't monetize.

I don't really care that much either way. I'm just pointing out that it's a powerful tool set that will rarely if ever see it's full potential unless the ability to export or tip or something is put into the game.
 

RedOnePunch

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,209
I wish they’d make a single player only game like the campaign for this. Saw some clips and it looks so good. Media Molecule are truly a gem in the industry.

I hope the studio sticks around if the game flops. You never know with any company, including Sony.
 

Odeko

The Fallen
Mar 22, 2018
9,029
Midwestern America
How big can you make a single game/level? I saw a couple of the reviews mention an item limit so I’m wondering what the possibility space is for the scope of these creations.
 

ara

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,951
Monetization allowed it to grow and realize its potential.

Early YouTube by today's standards would be pretty lame.
But it wasn't lame back then, and while the "Youtube of gaming" is a nice catchphrase that captures the heart of the matter fairly well, it's not an actual comparison, nor should it be used as one. Maybe in 5 years we'll look back to this day and think how lame the first months of Dream were, but for now, let it start evolving naturally without the massive influence in-game monetization would have on the cultre they're trying to cultivate here (which is one of sharing and collaborating). Expecting Dreams to be the Youtube of gaming on its tenth year with huge, proper games and such right from the get go is, frankly, absurd.

The collaborative nature of Dreams is inherently different from how Youtube and its creators operate, too. When people create, share and collaborate, more and bigger things will gradually start to be easier and faster to create in the future. Hard to say what effect monetization would have on this, but knowing what money does to people... probably nothing good.

And for what it's worth, unlike when Youtube introduced monetization, it's not like some sort of monetization is impossible or anything like. We have Patreon and other similar services.

e: sorry for the disjointed post lol I'm in a hurry
 
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atamize

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
474
Yes, a lot of games made in Dreams are short. Does that mean Dreams has less value than a 40 hour AAA game? If all you care about is entertainment value per dollar, you can find more than 40 hours fun in Dreams collectively across several games. Easily.

But what if the only reason AAA games are "better" for you is because they have really nice graphics and Dreams games look like crap? Then maybe Dreams just isn't for you right now. Dreams supports a wide variety of artistic styles but will suffer from the "Unity curse" as most newcomers will use default settings and not tweak their graphics to look good. There is of course some good-looking shit out there already in the Dreamiverse (see Disarmed) and it's only a matter of time before we start seeing them in more full-fledged games.
 

Paquete_PT

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,730
Those won't be made if people can't monetize.

I don't really care that much either way. I'm just pointing out that it's a powerful tool set that will rarely if ever see it's full potential unless the ability to export or tip or something is put into the game.
I’ve made a thread about this a few months ago and I agree with you. Some sort of monetization would help the game reach its true potential. The game will be good either way (hell, it’s good now), but with incentives for creators it would be truly amazing. If you want talented people to focus on creating real and good games using Dreams as the engine and launch hub, that takes a lot of time and effort and should be rewarded accordingly. I know the gaming community has been burned in the past but monetization is not always bad and I trust Mm to find a just solution.
 

Jobbs

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,011
But it wasn't lame back then, and while the "Youtube of gaming" is a nice catchphrase that captures the heart of the matter fairly well, it's not an actual comparison, nor should it be used as one. Maybe in 5 years we'll look back to this day and think how lame the first months of Dream were, but for now, let it start evolving naturally without the massive influence in-game monetization would have on the cultre they're trying to cultivate here (which is one of sharing and collaborating). Expecting Dreams to be the Youtube of gaming on its tenth year with huge, proper games and such right from the get go is, frankly, absurd.

And for what it's worth, unlike when Youtube introduced monetization, it's not like some sort of monetization is impossible or anything like. We have Patreon and other similar services.
I don't really care a lot if it has monetization or not for my own uses. I don't plan to make a game in Dreams, because I already use other software for that. I'm just saying that after sampling the toolset for myself, and after surfing creations for myself, from the perspective of a gamedev I think monetization is the the most important question/decision that will be made for this platform... And I'll explain why I think that.

The toolset is robust. The DAW by itself is insane. This "game", Dreams, has a fully functioning, fully scriptable DAW built into it and it's not even the main event. The potential this platform has as far as games go is very real... But this presents a bit of a contradiction. A mixed message. Here's a full dev system for making games, but it's something no one is really going to do. It's a complete contradiction.

The reality is, no matter how intuitive or accessible your tools are, making a game is *very very hard* and takes *many, many hours*. The only thing in reach for anyone who doesn't commit to a large project are scattered, incomplete thoughts, tech demos, and, perhaps very occasionally, a completed, very small game. Something akin to a small flash game on kongregate (not a large flash game, but one of the smaller ones. The vast majority of people making flash games were doing it because they could make money through kongregate/armor games sponsorships).

I know some of you may insist otherwise, but from the player perspective, scattered, incomplete thoughts and tech demos aren't going to be compelling for very long. The novelty of that wears off quickly.

If you want to see the platform realize its potential, there must be a way to either export your project and sell it elsewhere, or receive tips/payments in-game somehow. If there's not, I just don't see how Dreams goes anywhere. The only fleshed out Dream I've seen is the story mode of the game, by media molecule, Art's Dream, and I promise you that took a team of people many many hours to accomplish. Something no one is doing for free. Those devs are paid a salary.
 

dabri

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,029
Glad to see Dreams is getting good reviews. I'm dreading the day Sony decides to shut down the servers though.
 

Loudninja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,664
Meristation 8.7
Dreams is a triumph on the formula that Media Molecule has been improving since LittleBigPlanet. Its creation tools are overwhelming and require hard work, but they're ultimately rewarding. There is a great sense of community, and trying new creations every day feels satisfying and exciting.


Here is another one ghostcrew
 

Andromeda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,575
How big can you make a single game/level? I saw a couple of the reviews mention an item limit so I’m wondering what the possibility space is for the scope of these creations.
There are virtually no limits on the whole game (from memory the max number of levels allowed in one game is ridiculously high), but there are limits on what you can done on each downloaded level. But by being smart (and there are plenty of tricks that allow you to add more stuff in your dream, some are even producing stuff just for that) then usually it's not a problem.

But the downloads are usually so quick (a few seconds) that it's not a problem to download another part of the game when you cross a door and such.
 

Electro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,803
Vienna
The Games Machine - 90

App Trigger - 90

Gamereactor - 100