Dreams - Review Thread

Where will Dreams end up?


  • Total voters
    1,705
  • Poll closed .

H. L. Flynn

Member
Nov 2, 2018
279
Game is reviewing very well! I'm now really curious about the building tools and how they work. Is it really done through just a DS4?
Yes, although sculpting specifically some people find easier with the move controllers. We’ve been playing through the early access tutorials if you want a peak at how it all works:

 

MickZan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
945
Are we not tired of concern trolling about this game's sales potential yet? Just enjoy the game and stop worrying about it. If people want to buy it they will buy it.
+1

It's also completely useless to look at it's initial sales as this is a product that will normally sell more when more and more content is made.
 
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Dinjooh

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,681
Denmark
+1

It's also completely useless to look at it's sales as this is a product that will normally sell more when more and more content is made.
Eg-fucking-xactly.

It's gonna be one of those odd games where what sells it to people will vastly differ.For me fx, a spiritual sequel to War of the Monsters would make it an insta-buy for me no matter what, and as soon as I see that on the frontpage of /r/gaming - I'd be there.

Luckily I'm buying it tomorrow and making that shit myself.
 

IMACOMPUTA

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,247
I just bought it. I loved level surfing in the LBP games and this seems to be better in every way. I can't wait.

The IGN video solidified the sale for me.
 

Servbot24

User Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,804
Are we not tired of concern trolling about this game's sales potential yet? Just enjoy the game and stop worrying about it. If people want to buy it they will buy it.
If you think I'm "concern trolling" because I want the game to succeed but am disappointed in the marketing, you should use the Report button to alert the moderation team.

Anyways, been hopping back in today and man this thing is just so impressive. I really love they went all in on that dream like feel of scenes suddenly changing. So surreal yet so technical.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,018
The only issue I see with this is that if people will put 100s or possibly 1000s of hours into making content, they won't be rewarded financially for it, it's like the youtube for gaming but the only people who benifit financially are the devs + Sony.
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,409
The only issue I see with this is that if people will put 100s or possibly 1000s of hours into making content, they won't be rewarded financially for it, it's like the youtube for gaming but the only people who benifit financially are the devs + Sony.
I don’t see the issue. People put 100s or 1000s of hours into just playing games - they don’t get rewarded financially, it’s the enjoyment that counts. If you enjoy making things in Dreams rather than playing then you get out what you put in. You can build a rep, like players do online. I’m sure pride and satisfaction plays a part, knowing people are liking the stuff you create and that it’s being used by others as inspiration and a baseline for even greater creations in the future.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,018
I don’t see the issue. People put 100s or 1000s of hours into just playing games - they don’t get rewarded financially, it’s the enjoyment that counts. If you enjoy making things in Dreams rather than playing then you get out what you put in. You can build a rep, like players do online. I’m sure pride and satisfaction plays a part, knowing people are liking the stuff you create and that it’s being used by others as inspiration and a baseline for even greater creations in the future.
what you say may be true, but it would be better if people could sell there creations on a dreams store.
 

SunBroDave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,498
The only issue I see with this is that if people will put 100s or possibly 1000s of hours into making content, they won't be rewarded financially for it, it's like the youtube for gaming but the only people who benifit financially are the devs + Sony.
It's a hobby. People in real life put countless hours into drawing, painting, writing, playing music etc. not necessarily for financial gain, but for personal enjoyment and creative fulfillment
 

SecondNature

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,746
It's a hobby. People in real life put countless hours into drawing, painting, writing, playing music etc. not necessarily for financial gain, but for personal enjoyment and creative fulfillment
Sure, but creation tools like this require immense commitment and there are many people who do get paid for their art, music, etc. Especially if you're good at it and not just doing some leisure activity for 20 minutes.

There should 100% be a way to financially support creators. We're living in a world of twitch donations and microtransactions. No reason Dreams cant show some good will here. Im sure Sony would gladly take a cut of donations too

Being paid also greatly motivates people to create more and better things
 

Skux

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,616
I probably won't play it but this will be one of those games that you just watch and wait to see what crazy amazing things people come up with, like Minecraft or LittleBigPlanet before it.
 

Jobbs

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,011
It's a hobby. People in real life put countless hours into drawing, painting, writing, playing music etc. not necessarily for financial gain, but for personal enjoyment and creative fulfillment
I agree, but the lack of ability to monetize or own your property is probably going to keep dreams from ever realizing its full potential. Making a really ambitious game will take thousands of hours, and almost no one is going to do that for absolutely no possibility of gain. At some point they'd realize their ambition and how serious they are and take things to Unity or UE4, or more often the type of creator who wants to make a fully fleshed out, finished game wouldn't see Dreams as a valid path to begin with because it can't be monetized.

I expect we'll only ever see cool demos, proofs of concept, experiments, and small fan games
 

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,843
Argentina
MM have said that they are considering ways for creators to monetize or export their creations but for now they have to see how thing go once the game is out.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,018
Sure, but creation tools like this require immense commitment and there are many people who do get paid for their art, music, etc. Especially if you're good at it and not just doing some leisure activity for 20 minutes.

There should 100% be a way to financially support creators. We're living in a world of twitch donations and microtransactions. No reason Dreams cant show some good will here. Im sure Sony would gladly take a cut of donations too
I actually think, if they did this model dreams could be better because of it. People would be more motivated to make even better creations. They could limit the max price to a $2, so it would still be affordable but if Somone spends 1000hours making a game and they sell 100,000 copies that's $200,000 in there pocket. maybe Sony could 20cents on every dollar made, in the age of new monitisation models it could be away where everybody wins.
 

Another

Member
Oct 23, 2019
446
Portugal
All I need/want to know about this is... are the controls still clunky/janky and floaty as all hell like they were in LBP and Tearaway? I'll eventually get it regardless, but this is what I'm most curious about!

I agree, but the lack of ability to monetize or own your property is probably going to keep dreams from ever realizing its full potential. Making a really ambitious game will take thousands of hours, and almost no one is going to do that for absolutely no possibility of gain.
Oddly enough, this is precisely what makes it attractive for me, that it can't be corrupted by "gain". "Almost no one" are precisely the ones whose work I want to check out in Dreams.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,886
I was a big fan of LBP and Tearaway and yet I had no idea this game was actually finally coming out. Feels like it’s been in concept/beta mode out in public for like 5 years.

Gonna have to give it a go one day. I hope it has that Media Molecule magic.
 

Another

Member
Oct 23, 2019
446
Portugal
what a bizarre take

Dreams itself wouldn't exist if it couldn't be sold to you
You're misunderstanding my point. Patreon links associated with someone's "games" would be absolutely fine. But setting the precedent of being able to charge other users to enjoy content would defeat the purpose of the game, imo.
 

Poimandres

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,052
what a bizarre take

Dreams itself wouldn't exist if it couldn't be sold to you
I think what he means is that making something purely out of personal drive is appealing to his sensibilities. It's hard to deny that products designed for maximum profitability can hinder artistic expression, or drive it in directions that the creator might not be too fond of.
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,477
Sure, but creation tools like this require immense commitment and there are many people who do get paid for their art, music, etc. Especially if you're good at it and not just doing some leisure activity for 20 minutes.

There should 100% be a way to financially support creators. We're living in a world of twitch donations and microtransactions. No reason Dreams cant show some good will here. Im sure Sony would gladly take a cut of donations too

Being paid also greatly motivates people to create more and better things
Its called Patreon and tons of content creators of all sorts from animators to streamers use it in lue of actual sales or payment of what they create. That said there are entire modding communities that produce all kinds of crazy shit for exactly nothing, they just do it because they love it.
 

RingRang

Member
Oct 2, 2019
1,387
It's also completely useless to look at it's initial sales as this is a product that will normally sell more when more and more content is made.
How will the average person ever know that more and more content is being made?

The only way I see this game selling well in the long run (that don’t be happening at launch) is if creations from it go viral or some big streamers get really into the game.
 

Jobbs

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,011
I think what he means is that making something purely out of personal drive is appealing to his sensibilities. It's hard to deny that products designed for maximum profitability can hinder artistic expression, or drive it in directions that the creator might not be too fond of.
It's a very naive and bizarre take nonetheless. The lack of ability to get anything back for countless hours of work will restrict the quality and scope of games we see on Dreams. I know from experience (I own Dreams) that the toolset is powerful, but it just won't see its full potential realized as things are now. You'll only ever see incomplete thoughts and tech demos or just very small mini games.

If you put that preference into gaming in general, that creators can't make a living, we'd have virtually no great games whatsoever. They just wouldn't exist because people couldn't live. Making great games isn't something that can be done in a weekend. This isn't mario maker.
 

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,843
Argentina
It's a very naive and bizarre take nonetheless. The lack of ability to get anything back for countless hours of work will restrict the quality and scope of games we see on Dreams. I know from experience (I own Dreams) that the toolset is powerful, but it just won't see its full potential realized as things are now. You'll only ever see incomplete thoughts and tech demos or just very small mini games.

If you put that preference into gaming in general, that creators can't make a living, we'd have virtually no great games whatsoever. They just wouldn't exist because people couldn't live. Making great games isn't something that can be done in a weekend. This isn't mario maker.
I don't know If you read me but I heard MM on the Kindafunny stream (or was it Easy Allies?) say that they are looking into that (monetize or exporting work out of Dreams) but they have to see how things go first when the game is out. I suppose they have lots of plans that will develop over time.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,018
I don't know If you read me but I heard MM on the Kindafunny stream (or was it Easy Allies?) say that they are looking into that (monetize or exporting work out of Dreams) but they have to see how things go first when the game is out. I suppose they have lots of plans that will develop over time.
I hope they address this soon or you might get people waiting to release or make games on dreams until they can maybe monetize it.
You would of though after 7yrs mm would of thought about this, researched it and have things ready.
 

T-800

Member
Oct 30, 2017
221
I agree, but the lack of ability to monetize or own your property is probably going to keep dreams from ever realizing its full potential. Making a really ambitious game will take thousands of hours, and almost no one is going to do that for absolutely no possibility of gain. At some point they'd realize their ambition and how serious they are and take things to Unity or UE4, or more often the type of creator who wants to make a fully fleshed out, finished game wouldn't see Dreams as a valid path to begin with because it can't be monetized.

I expect we'll only ever see cool demos, proofs of concept, experiments, and small fan games
MM have employed creators who made things in LBP. Who knows where that may lead in Dreams.
 

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,843
Argentina
I hope they address this soon or you might get people waiting to release or make games on dreams until they can maybe monetize it.
You would of though after 7yrs mm would of thought about this, researched it and have things ready.
I've no idea how things work honestly but somehow I would expect they leave the game in its current state for a while, maybe until VR and PS5 are out or if PC is announced or whatever things are going to happen from now on. I just think that launching the game to the public is a big thing that demands 100% attention.
 

H. L. Flynn

Member
Nov 2, 2018
279
I don’t see the issue. People put 100s or 1000s of hours into just playing games - they don’t get rewarded financially, it’s the enjoyment that counts. If you enjoy making things in Dreams rather than playing then you get out what you put in. You can build a rep, like players do online. I’m sure pride and satisfaction plays a part, knowing people are liking the stuff you create and that it’s being used by others as inspiration and a baseline for even greater creations in the future.
If Dreams takes off as a platform then before we even get to the possibility of there one day being a license to import and sell content (which Media Molecule have at least discussed before) creators will be able to do well on patreon.
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,477
It's a very naive and bizarre take nonetheless. The lack of ability to get anything back for countless hours of work will restrict the quality and scope of games we see on Dreams. I know from experience (I own Dreams) that the toolset is powerful, but it just won't see its full potential realized as things are now. You'll only ever see incomplete thoughts and tech demos or just very small mini games.

If you put that preference into gaming in general, that creators can't make a living, we'd have virtually no great games whatsoever. They just wouldn't exist because people couldn't live. Making great games isn't something that can be done in a weekend. This isn't mario maker.
I feel like some of you forget about the modding community who in many cases spend years working on their mods or even games based entirely on pre existing engines or other foundations, often with nothing more than donations, if that. Yeah a lot of people make games because they get paid for their passion but a ton of people just do it because they love to.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,018
I've no idea how things work honestly but somehow I would expect they leave the game in its current state for a while, maybe until VR and PS5 are out or if PC is announced or whatever things are going to happen from now on. I just think that launching the game to the public is a big thing that demands 100% attention.
From the sounds of it, creator monetization sounds like an afterthought from mm.
Monetization does not need to be available at launch, no doubt dreams will see a bump if they did Implement creator monetization.
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,477
From the sounds of it, creator monetization sounds like an afterthought from mm.
Monetization does not need to be available at launch, no doubt dreams will see a bump if they did Implement creator monetization.
I feel like they have thought long and hard about this, they've talked about it for years. I think making it so people can start charging for stuff right of the gate basically destroys a lot of what would make Dreams special.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,018
I feel like some of you forget about the modding community who in many cases spend years working on their mods or even games based entirely on pre existing engines or other foundations, often with nothing more than donations, if that. Yeah a lot of people make games because they get paid for their passion but a ton of people just do it because they love to.
Then why not offer both?
 

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,843
Argentina
From the sounds of it, creator monetization sounds like an afterthought from mm.
Monetization does not need to be available at launch, no doubt dreams will see a bump if they did Implement creator monetization.
It might be, yeah. I don't think any other "create stuff" game has done it before, right? so maybe they really didn't think about it but I'm not sure, you can truly do some unique and complex stuff here in comparison to other games.
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,980
I feel like they have thought long and hard about this, they've talked about it for years. I think making it so people can start charging for stuff right of the gate basically destroys a lot of what would make Dreams special.
Agreed.

That is the sort of thing that should be implemented after the ball gets rolling. They need to monitor how things turn out first. I'm sure they have a bunch of plans that they aren't ready to talk about yet. You don't spend an entire generation building a game like this and not have numerous plans after launch.
 

H. L. Flynn

Member
Nov 2, 2018
279
Then why not offer both?
There is an argument that having monetisation day 1 would disrupt the collaborative, sharing culture the game tries to foster. The design brief of Dreams is not a engine for people to make and sell games in, not in its first year at least. The consumer package is to create and share all manner of art.

who knows what’s in this ten year plan though
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,477
Then why not offer both?
From the way MM has talked about it charging for people's creations right out the gate would be almost antithetical to the nature of the game which is about creating and sharing. Instantly letting people charge for their content right out of the gate kind of ruins the ease of access by putting a big monetary roadblock in front of them.

Not too mention it sounds like a bit of a nightmare figuring out who gets paid for what if someone makes a game out of totally free assets made by others but then charges for it. Do they original creators of all those items get paid as well? I feel like people think its just charging for a game but some people only make music or character models or English breakfasts. Do they charge more for non interactive art as they do full games? Its a much bigger issue than most even seem to consider when they talk about charging.
 

SecondNature

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,746
I feel like they have thought long and hard about this, they've talked about it for years. I think making it so people can start charging for stuff right of the gate basically destroys a lot of what would make Dreams special.
No one is talking about charging for anything. Donations should be a thing. People make millions of streaming games for free.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,018
Agreed.

That is the sort of thing that should be implemented after the ball gets rolling. They need to monitor how things turn out first. I'm sure they have a bunch of plans that they aren't ready to talk about yet. You don't spend an entire generation building a game like this and not have numerous plans after launch.
Yes you could well be correct, but I hope a youtube of games does happen one day, it could revolutionise the gaming industry and whoever makes the platform would make bank too by taking a small % of each creator content sale.
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,477
No one is talking about charging for anything. Donations should be a thing. People make millions of streaming games for free.
So you make a Patreon like everyone else that goes the same exact route. Creators can stick a big sign in the start of their dream asking for donations or people to join their Patreon if they really wanted to.
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,980
Yes you could well be correct, but I hope a youtube of games does happen one day, it could revolutionise the gaming industry and whoever makes the platform would make bank too by taking a small % of each creator content sale.
It definitely has potential. MM could be future proofing themselves if it gets implemented for development properly. They could have whatever revenue this brings in as a foundation and then keep supporting it and making their own games.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,018
From the way MM has talked about it charging for people's creations right out the gate would be almost antithetical to the nature of the game which is about creating and sharing. Instantly letting people charge for their content right out of the gate kind of ruins the ease of access by putting a big monetary roadblock in front of them.

Not too mention it sounds like a bit of a nightmare figuring out who gets paid for what if someone makes a game out of totally free assets made by others but then charges for it. Do they original creators of all those items get paid as well? I feel like people think its just charging for a game but some people only make music or character models or English breakfasts. Do they charge more for non interactive art as they do full games? Its a much bigger issue than most even seem to consider when they talk about charging.
Well that's an interesting assumption.