Dragon Quest XII development preparations are underway (UPDATE: DQ11 team recruiting for new HD title)

Vena

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Oct 25, 2017
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If any one thinks that SE is going to go through the same salvage operation with DQXII as they've had to do with DQXI, and end up making the game about three times over, I have a bridge to sell you.

DQXI was a disaster of insanely high market expectations vs. the reality to which the game launched.

DQXI started as an HD project that, in the course of development, found itself entering an almost completely collapsed market, had to get a 3DS co-game made to salvage the sales potential of the title, and still ended up down significantly from a previous entry on *one* platform. They've since tried to play it up for the west to mediocre sales, and finally made *yet another* significant port/title upgrade for *yet another* launch with an almost completely redone marketing campaign as if the game were coming out for the first time.

Unmitigated disaster is overkill but this was a mess of massive proportions that they've been trying to salvage for the entire generation.
 

WonderLuigi

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Oct 25, 2017
2,112
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If any one thinks that SE is going to go through the same salvage operation with DQXII as they've had to do with DQXI, and end up making the game about three times over, I have a bridge to sell you.

DQXI was a disaster of insanely high market expectations vs. the reality to which the game launched.

DQXI started as an HD project that, in the course of development, found itself entering an almost completely collapsed market, had to get a 3DS co-game made to salvage the sales potential of the title, and still ended up down significantly from a previous entry on *one* platform. They've since tried to play it up for the west to mediocre sales, and finally made *yet another* significant port/title upgrade for *yet another* launch with an almost completely redone marketing campaign as if the game were coming out for the first time.

Unmitigated disaster is overkill but this was a mess of massive proportions that they've been trying to salvage for the entire generation.
I think they are dumb enough. Honestly.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,282
If any one thinks that SE is going to go through the same salvage operation with DQXII as they've had to do with DQXI, and end up making the game about three times over, I have a bridge to sell you.

DQXI was a disaster of insanely high market expectations vs. the reality to which the game launched.

DQXI started as an HD project that, in the course of development, found itself entering an almost completely collapsed market, had to get a 3DS co-game made to salvage the sales potential of the title, and still ended up down significantly from a previous entry on *one* platform. They've since tried to play it up for the west to mediocre sales, and finally made *yet another* significant port/title upgrade for *yet another* launch with an almost completely redone marketing campaign as if the game were coming out for the first time.

Unmitigated disaster is overkill but this was a mess of massive proportions that they've been trying to salvage for the entire generation.
you're being a little extra here. not having a dedicated platform/first foray into HD stifled their usual gameplan (simply releasing for the most successful system at the moment) but in aggregate it about worked out as expected. they weren't 'salvaging' anything just spreading things wide by design

gotta keep in mind these games are made with japan in mind, other markets are ancillary. if this were Final Fantasy 16 or something yeah it'd be an issue
 

Vena

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Oct 25, 2017
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you're being a little extra here. not having a dedicated platform/first foray into HD stifled their usual gameplan (simply releasing for the most successful system at the moment) but in aggregate it about worked out as expected. they weren't 'salvaging' anything just spreading things wide by design

gotta keep in mind these games are made with japan in mind, other markets are ancillary. if this were Final Fantasy 16 or something yeah it'd be an issue
I mean I don't see a reason to not take them to task for such a blundering mess. They changed their gameplan at the worst moment either because they completely misread the market they would be entering with the PS4 in Japan, or they buried their heads in the sand and expected some glorious return of the PS2 when the PS4 launched, but any one with eyeballs would/could have told you this was extremely unlikely. So either they were collectively extremely stupid or blinded by HD.

The fact that these are games made for Japan, and everything else auxiliary, the project goals of DQXI were completely nonsensical and why it needed the game made three times over.
 

Sankara

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May 19, 2019
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there are no more recent numbers, probably not until DQ11S releases and does really well. but being an RPG, they don't have long tails, Xenoblade 2 being an outlier
Then your 620K number is not applicable to determine the current sales of the PC version and my point that the numbers it has likely sold are nothing to scoff at.

Also, PC versions usually have longer tails, especially thanks to sales and promotions.
 

DrakenAstro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,999
I’m incredibly excited for DQXI S, even moreso after the Treehouse demo. Out of curiosity what JRPGs have you played recently that you would have called enjoyable / not boring?
Kingdom hearts 3 was awesome with good music and gameplay. Persona 5 was absolutely fantastic too

Dragon quest 11 was too slow and dry for me, music was not good imo and the gameplay was so basic and got boring fast. That's just me though
 

ILikeFeet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,653
Then your 620K number is not applicable to determine the current sales of the PC version and my point that the numbers it has likely sold are nothing to scoff at.

Also, PC versions usually have longer tails, especially thanks to sales and promotions.
your numbers are no more applicable than mine since it's based on a very wide and arbitrary range
 

Spyder_Monkey

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Oct 25, 2017
10,045
I'd be shocked if this wasn't coming to the Switch. Dragon Quest games are always made for the most popular system in Japan.
 

Poshi

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Oct 28, 2017
161
Sweden
"Square Enix is recruiting a battle planner, facial motion designer, 2D background designer, and technical artist for its Second Development Division team for work on a new Dragon Quest project"

I´m all good with their recruitment plan except for the battle planner. I hope the battle system stays intact. How about a new music composer instead?
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,282
I mean I don't see a reason to not take them to task for such a blundering mess. They changed their gameplan at the worst moment either because they completely misread the market they would be entering with the PS4 in Japan, or they buried their heads in the sand and expected some glorious return of the PS2 when the PS4 launched, but any one with eyeballs would/could have told you this was extremely unlikely. So either they were collectively extremely stupid or blinded by HD.

The fact that these are games made for Japan, and everything else auxiliary, the project goals of DQXI were completely nonsensical and why it needed the game made three times over.
3DS was successful but on its way out, ps4 and consoles in general were destined for a meh-ish run this gen in japan. i dunno, looks like a pretty good compromise per how each version sold. now if the HD version was some mega budget endeavor i could understand but it's only a few steps ahead of Tales of Beseria or whatever AA jrpg this gen

brass tacks i don't see how SE got a bad ROI here. and this isn't even getting into the switch version
 

jdstorm

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Jan 6, 2018
3,521
Seems like the smart thing to do, like many have said is an iterative sequel targeting the Switch handheld specs. And then doing a 4K/60 up port to PS5
 

skeezx

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Oct 27, 2017
7,282
Tales of games have had the same foundation for ages
i don't doubt that, but i doubt they spent hundreds of millions of dollars (or whatever the yen equivalent) to make them. same is true of DQXI, like obviously production values were touched up a notch but it's not like asscreed or whatever where going over 5 million sold is must or bust
 

Lemon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
54
There is no reason to think it won't be on Switch, the message says nothing to suggest that would happen.
Switch is literally the first to enter the 9th generation of consoles. This is made with Switch in mind abandoning last gen consoles like PS4, XboxOnes WiiU Vita and 3DS.
 

JayWood2010

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Oct 27, 2017
3,029
Yeah, I get what you generally mean with Nier and one should never say that another JRPG success on Xbox is impossible, but looking at all things, DQ succeeding on Xbox seems very unlikely. Nier's also a bad example in that case, as it sold well on PS/PC already before coming to Xbox and doing fine. DQ sold meh on PS/PC, so chances are it would sell even worse on Xbox.

Like I said, everything's possible, even if the possibility is super slim, but with DQ there is a certain precedent something like Nier didn't really have. SE would've to really up their western game with DQ to land a hit, on Xbox even more so than on the other platforms.
Well again, im talking about Switch as well, but lets just hypothetically say DQ was on Game Pass day 1. Now obviously this is doubtful, but id bet that it would be a big hit and give DQ brand recognition it didnt have before. Im talking PC Game Pass, and Xbox. You can throw in PSNow as well if they start going big on it.
 

ILikeFeet

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Oct 25, 2017
25,653
Well again, im talking about Switch as well, but lets just hypothetically say DQ was on Game Pass day 1. Now obviously this is doubtful, but id bet that it would be a big hit and give DQ brand recognition it didnt have before. Im talking PC Game Pass, and Xbox. You can throw in PSNow as well if they start to change their policies.
until we know just how much game pass helps specific games/genres/publishers, it's kinda a pointless hypotheticals
 

SuperFakerBros

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Oct 26, 2017
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Switch is next gen, like PS5/Nxtbox gen? I swear it feels like playing Xbox360 techwise but handheld
The Switch is a good amount more capable than any of the last gen systems by a fair margin but, even with that aside, that's not how generations work, otherwise the Wii and Vita would be grouped with the PS2/GC/Xbox and the original DS would've been grouped with the PS/N64/Saturn. It's Nintendo's next gen system and will be till 2023 at the very earliest. How it compares to the PS5/XB2 is irrelevant
 

noyram23

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Oct 25, 2017
7,004
The Switch is a good amount more capable than any of the last gen systems by a fair margin but, even with that aside, that's not how generations work, otherwise the Wii and Vita would be grouped with the PS2/GC/Xbox and the original DS would've been grouped with the PS/N64/Saturn
Personally I just have certain expectation of what a next gen should play and playing my switch is like playing Xbox360/PS3 to be honest but on handheld (which is great). It's a handheld, it's not something I would group on console/pc due to how weak it is
 

SuperFakerBros

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Personally I just have certain expectation of what a next gen should play and playing my switch is like playing Xbox360/PS3 to be honest but on handheld (which is great). It's a handheld, it's not something I would group on console/pc due to how weak it is
Except handhelds are included in those generations, otherwise we might as well call the Vita, PSP, and Nintendo's previous handhelds generation-less or part of whatever generation their hardware is closest to, in terms of power, like grouping the Vita with the PS2
 

noyram23

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Oct 25, 2017
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Except handhelds are included in those generations, otherwise we might as well call the Vita, PSP, and Nintendo's previous handhelds generation-less or part of whatever generation their hardware is closest to
Ah ok, I just divide my generation on console and handheld personally. But yeah I'm seeing DQ12 as PS4/PS5 and DQ12S as switch probably a year later for that double dip money.
 

SuperFakerBros

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Ah ok, I just divide my generation on console and handheld personally. But yeah I'm seeing DQ12 as PS4/PS5 and DQ12S as switch probably a year later for that double dip money.
I think, in this case, they'd be better off making DQ12 for both PlayStation and the Switch straight from the get go as opposed to intentionally delaying the releases across platforms
 

noyram23

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Oct 25, 2017
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I think, in this case, they'd be better off making DQ12 for both PlayStation and the Switch straight from the get go as opposed to intentionally delaying the releases across platforms
If i'm SE might as well, Switch people would buy the game regardless if it's late port or not and it might force the people on fence to buy the PS4/5 version day one. I think Switch users are a prime target for double dip money if you ask me, audience are used to late ports, there's the incentive of handheld, and most first party games doesn't depreciate it's value so they are ok with $60 even on late ones. Again this is just, if i'm SE
 

SuperFakerBros

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If i'm SE might as well, Switch people would buy the game regardless if it's late port or not and it might force the people on fence to buy the PS4/5 version day one. I think Switch users are a prime target for double dip money if you ask me, audience are used to late ports, there's the incentive of handheld, and most first party games doesn't depreciate it's value so they are ok with $60 even on late ones. Again this is just, if i'm SE
With DQXIS, there's an excuse, at least, due to how UE4 is handled. With DQXII, this would be just intentionally taking advantage of an audience and screwing them over so there'd be more of a backlash and I'm not sure if people would be as understanding. I sure as hell wouldn't approve of it as I don't really double dip and, for a long JRPG, I'm not sure many would be really doing so
 

noyram23

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Oct 25, 2017
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With DQXIS, there's an excuse, at least, due to how UE4 is handled. With DQXII, this would be just intentionally taking advantage of an audience and screwing them over so there'd be more of a backlash and I'm not sure if people would be as understanding. I sure as hell wouldn't approve of it as I don't really double dip and, for a long JRPG, I'm not sure many would be really doing so
Personally I would double dip, double dip with DQ12S due to extras. Not sure about the backlash though, people are gonna port beg and SE is holding a tasty treat, they're probably gonna thank SE down the line if they port it. They can always do an excuse that porting it down takes time and next gen hardware are their target, they can also throw extras to encourage to double dip. It's SE, like Atlus, they're weird in their decision lol
 

SuperFakerBros

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Personally I would double dip, double dip with DQ12S due to extras. Not sure about the backlash though, people are gonna port beg and SE is holding a tasty treat, they're probably gonna thank SE down the line if they port it. They can always do an excuse that porting it down takes time and next gen hardware are their target, they can also throw extras to encourage to double dip. It's SE, like Atlus, they're weird in their decision lol
Considering that the Switch is a mature system now, they should be working on it side by side with the other versions, such as with Doom Eternal or Mortal Kombat 11. If anything, it should be the lead platform, seeing as it's the dominant system in Japan and handhelds are where most of the audience is. Like a late port with a ton of extra goodies mainly works as a one off thing and for a brand new platform. If it becomes expected on an established platform, than people will just move on and just be encouraged to wait
 

noyram23

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Oct 25, 2017
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Considering that the Switch is a mature system now, they should be working on it side by side with the other versions, such as with Doom Eternal or Mortal Kombat 11. Like a late port with a ton of extra goodies mainly works as a one off thing. If it becomes expected, than people will just move on and just be encouraged to wait
MK11 and Doom (1, I played, not eternal) looks bad on Switch to be honest so not a good example, DQ11S is a better port looks like. It's gonna be next gen hardware they're down porting from, not this PS4/Xbox One era, Switch is having a hard time with this gen's game already lol
 

Hours Left

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Oct 26, 2017
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Now let's bring in those younger composers and ditch horrible guy.
I’ve heard people say that he doesn’t even actually compose much at all nowadays, he just puts his name on the work of others.

I have no idea of the veracity of that, but he is quite old. The sooner he’s gone from the company, the better.
 

NSESN

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Oct 25, 2017
13,376
Wouldnt it be better to make a DQ XII targeting the switch, port it to PS4/PS5, and then, when PS5 install base is bigger, make a DQ XIII for it? Maybe releasing a downport for Switch 2 a la XI
 

karmitt

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Oct 27, 2017
1,844
Kingdom hearts 3 was awesome with good music and gameplay. Persona 5 was absolutely fantastic too

Dragon quest 11 was too slow and dry for me, music was not good imo and the gameplay was so basic and got boring fast. That's just me though
All good, I was just curious. I enjoyed DQVIII well enough back in the day, and this looks heaps better. The combat wasn’t super exciting but I definitely had fun overall.

The music in the original release sounded awful, but the new symphonic tracks are lovely. If they get repetitive looks like I can always toggle to DQVIII music as well (assuming that DLC is too expensive).
 

SuperFakerBros

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MK11 and Doom (1, I played, not eternal) looks bad on Switch to be honest so not a good example, DQ11S is a better port looks like. It's gonna be next gen hardware they're down porting from, not this PS4/Xbox One era, Switch is having a hard time with this gen's game already lol
Well they weren't made with the system's hardware in mind, especially the latter as it was ported well after the other versions already received deep price cuts, whereas DQXIS had a LOT of work done to make it work properly on the Switch. Considering that's where they'll get the majority of their sales, it makes more sense to use the Switch as the lead system and have it launch simultaneously with the other versions than downport a PS5-level title to the system
 

noyram23

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Oct 25, 2017
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Well they weren't made with the system's hardware in mind, especially the latter as it was ported well after the other versions already received deep price cuts, whereas DQXIS had a LOT of work done to make it work properly on the Switch. Considering that's where they'll get the majority of their sales, it makes more sense to use the Switch as the lead system and have it launch simultaneously with the other versions than downport a PS5-level title to the system
True but Horii might want to target next gen system again. It's gonna be PS4/3ds for DQ12 lol
 

ILikeFeet

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Oct 25, 2017
25,653
MK11 and Doom (1, I played, not eternal) looks bad on Switch to be honest so not a good example, DQ11S is a better port looks like. It's gonna be next gen hardware they're down porting from, not this PS4/Xbox One era, Switch is having a hard time with this gen's game already lol
that's assuming they're even making this on PS5 first and not switch and up porting
 

MatrixMan.exe

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Oct 25, 2017
3,629
If any one thinks that SE is going to go through the same salvage operation with DQXII as they've had to do with DQXI, and end up making the game about three times over, I have a bridge to sell you.

DQXI was a disaster of insanely high market expectations vs. the reality to which the game launched.

DQXI started as an HD project that, in the course of development, found itself entering an almost completely collapsed market, had to get a 3DS co-game made to salvage the sales potential of the title, and still ended up down significantly from a previous entry on *one* platform. They've since tried to play it up for the west to mediocre sales, and finally made *yet another* significant port/title upgrade for *yet another* launch with an almost completely redone marketing campaign as if the game were coming out for the first time.

Unmitigated disaster is overkill but this was a mess of massive proportions that they've been trying to salvage for the entire generation.
I think even you calling it a mess of massive proportions is incredibly OTT. Not to mention this narrative of the Switch port being done in response to 'poor' western sales, despite the fact that the Switch port was announced at the same time as the 3DS and PS4 versions.

I'm genuinely curious, has Square Enix ever gone on record to say that Dragon Quest's performance in Japan or NA/Europe was below expectations?

Hell, where are you getting this idea that they had insanely high expectations for it in the first place? Simply because they developed it for PS4? This is the sort of lazy commentary that I saw way too much of in Monster Hunter World discussions after the initial reveal.
 

Spyder_Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,045
Counterpoint: If they just released DQXI on Switch as is with no new content, sales potential would be lower and everyone would be mad at another "late port".

It's not like vanilla DQXI was bad or incomplete in anyway.

Also DQXI did really good in Japan as always even on PS4.
 

Lonely1

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Oct 26, 2017
3,301
We still dont know how much (or how little) DQ12S is going to sell. You people talk like if it was already a succes.
 

Vaughngief

Member
Oct 29, 2017
237
Looking forward to a Dragon Quest 12, but I'm more excited for the possible remake of Dragon Quest 3 they wanna do after 12.