Canada PoliERA |OT 2| I Got Ninety Nine MPs, But An Albertan Ain't One

Oct 27, 2017
1,631
Did that senate bill in the states still have the 'Trump and the GOP gets a secret slush fund' section? If so, I wouldn't use it as leverage here, though it does seem like all parties agreed to something. The cbc article talks more about lead up and not what went through. Wonder if Scott Reid is happy this morning or if our democracy is dead?
No that was removed. Money is still going to businesses, but apparently anything owned by anyone in government is barred.

Also, the US plan increases their EI by a decent amount per month ($600). The American plan is definitely better than the Canadian, so far.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,576
Some more details in the other thread, but you need to have reported at least 5k of income previously to qualify. But the other barriers are more relaxed, so you can still be employed but have reduced hours and still qualify.
 

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,439
Toronto
Some more details in the other thread, but you need to have reported at least 5k of income previously to qualify. But the other barriers are more relaxed, so you can still be employed but have reduced hours and still qualify.
That is such a stupidly low limit. What is even the point of having it to begin with. So a couple more people would get access to this emergency program; who actually cares. Is it worth adding to the processing time when its critical that money gets out ASAP
 

SRG01

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,890
That is such a stupidly low limit. What is even the point of having it to begin with. So a couple more people would get access to this emergency program; who actually cares. Is it worth adding to the processing time when its critical that money gets out ASAP
My assumption is that it prevents people who were unemployed prior to this and had no income from applying to this program.
 

GUSH

Member
Nov 17, 2017
1,451
My assumption is that it prevents people who were unemployed prior to this and had no income from applying to this program.
For sure, but that seems kinda fucked to me.

Excluding the people most vulnerable is a bad look and shrugging and directing people to services like Ontario Works ($733 monthly max for individuals) when it's evident that no one can sustain themselves on that kind of income is cruel.
 

Dynedom

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,101
Welp: Amazon warehouses/fulfillment centers recording COVID-19 cases. I have a package inbound and one of them passed through an affected center (Kentucky). So far, no cases in the Canadian centers I think and I believe these places (at least for Ontario) are on the Essential Business list?

Going to have to wipe down the box heavily. Not even bringing it into the house. Going to open it in the garage, extract, wipe down and then chuck the outer packagings.

In short: wipe down everything thoroughly. Be vigilant with deliveries from any source.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,613
Welp: Amazon warehouses/fulfillment centers recording COVID-19 cases. I have a package inbound and one of them passed through an affected center (Kentucky). So far, no cases in the Canadian centers I think and I believe these places (at least for Ontario) are on the Essential Business list?

Going to have to wipe down the box heavily. Not even bringing it into the house. Going to open it in the garage, extract, wipe down and then chuck the outer packagings.

In short: wipe down everything thoroughly. Be vigilant with deliveries from any source.
Thanks for the heads up, my package from Ebgames will be delivered next week and I will make sure to do that. Better safe than sorry, I suppose. :\
 

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,439
Toronto
Welp: Amazon warehouses/fulfillment centers recording COVID-19 cases. I have a package inbound and one of them passed through an affected center (Kentucky). So far, no cases in the Canadian centers I think and I believe these places (at least for Ontario) are on the Essential Business list?

Going to have to wipe down the box heavily. Not even bringing it into the house. Going to open it in the garage, extract, wipe down and then chuck the outer packagings.

In short: wipe down everything thoroughly. Be vigilant with deliveries from any source.
Yeah, i've been getting a tonne of boxes in because I had to pull the trigger on doing my new PC Build since my current machine is literally starting to die on me which is horrible when I work from Home, so I don't want this thing to kick the bucket and be left with nothing. So I've been cutting the boxes opened, taking the items out, washing my hands then disinfecting them with lysol spray every step of the way. Better safe than sorry.

... also fuck having read what I just typed. Its amazing how easy it is to slip up, because I ordered pizza last night and while I washed my hands; I didn't disinfect that box. Hopefully that one is fine.
 

Dynedom

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,101
Thanks for the heads up, my package from Ebgames will be delivered next week and I will make sure to do that. Better safe than sorry, I suppose. :\
Yeah, i've been getting a tonne of boxes in because I had to pull the trigger on doing my new PC Build since my current machine is literally starting to die on me which is horrible when I work from Home, so I don't want this thing to kick the bucket and be left with nothing. So I've been cutting the boxes opened, taking the items out, washing my hands then disinfecting them with lysol spray every step of the way. Better safe than sorry.

... also fuck having read what I just typed. Its amazing how easy it is to slip up, because I ordered pizza last night and while I washed my hands; I didn't disinfect that box. Hopefully that one is fine.
Yeah. We also wear gloves here when handling things but then wash those under hot water and soap extensively for the next use. Will need to wear a mask now too just in case.

Anyway I wont go on as this is discussion belongs in the Canada COVID thread, now that I think about it. Sorry mods.
 

Terra Firma

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,793
Clearest explanation I've seen.
So it looks like people who were recently employed but are out of a job are okay as long as they earned $5000 within the past 12 months - so it doesn't have to be the reported income for 2019. I know a few people who were recently laid off after being employed for ~5 months but did not meet the criteria of $5000 of income in the last year but do for the past few months.

Still not ideal for people who earned less than that since then; they're out of luck...
 
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Cranster

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,545
So it looks like people who were recently employed but are out of a job are okay as long as they earned $5000 within the past 12 months - so it doesn't have to be the reported income for 2019. I know a few people who were recently laid off after being employed for ~5 months but did not meet the criteria of $5000 of income in the last year but do for the past few months.

Still not ideal for people who earned less than that since their out of luck...
It's good to have that clarified. So if your EI is currently being processed then that will also take effect aswell through EI?
 

Terra Firma

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,793
It's good to have that clarified. So if your EI is currently being processed then that will also take effect aswell through EI?
On the press release page, it says that people who are already receiving EI should not apply for CERB:

Canadians who are already receiving EI regular and sickness benefits as of today would continue to receive their benefits and should not apply to the CERB. If their EI benefits end before October 3, 2020, they could apply for the CERB once their EI benefits cease, if they are unable to return to work due to COVID-19. Canadians who have already applied for EI and whose application has not yet been processed would not need to reapply. Canadians who are eligible for EI regular and sickness benefits would still be able to access their normal EI benefits, if still unemployed, after the 16-week period covered by the CERB.
Those who have applied but EI hasn't started for them need not reapply.
 

Terra Firma

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,793
But does that mean I'll be getting the same level of financial support or not is what I'm getting at. Because EI as far as I know will be alot less than CERB.
This seems really confusing. Reading this CBC article doesn't clarify things either, since there seems to be a contradiction.

Who qualifies for CERB?

It's available to wage earners, contract workers and self-employed people who don't qualify for employment insurance (EI).
But then, in a quote from the government press release:

"The EI system was not designed to process the unprecedented high volume of applications received in the past week. Given this situation, all Canadians who have ceased working due to COVID-19, whether they are EI-eligible or not, would be able to receive the CERB to ensure they have timely access to the income support they need," said the government news release.
So CBC is saying that people who qualify for EI won't receive CERB until their EI benefits expire while the government press release is saying that even EI-eligible people would receive the CERB.

I would just wait until the application process opens up to see who exactly qualifies.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,703
This is why it should be a universal payment tbh. Every economist I’ve heard/read lately has said better to overpay now then underpay plus speed is incredibly important.
 

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,439
Toronto
This is why it should be a universal payment tbh. Every economist I’ve heard/read lately has said better to overpay now then underpay plus speed is incredibly important.
The hilarious thing about all this refusal to just to UBI, is that it's such a non-issue it's hilarious. Just give the fucking money to everybody and say that "If you earn over X this year you pay it back". It's literally that easy. And its early enough in the year that there is no way in hell that your average citizen has even come close to that yet.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,252
The hilarious thing about all this refusal to just to UBI, is that it's such a non-issue it's hilarious. Just give the fucking money to everybody and say that "If you earn over X this year you pay it back". It's literally that easy. And its early enough in the year that there is no way in hell that your average citizen has even come close to that yet.
I'm sure a bunch of people won't be able to pay it back when it becomes due.

Plus I can see the opposition not liking it.
 

Vamphuntr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,071
The hilarious thing about all this refusal to just to UBI, is that it's such a non-issue it's hilarious. Just give the fucking money to everybody and say that "If you earn over X this year you pay it back". It's literally that easy. And its early enough in the year that there is no way in hell that your average citizen has even come close to that yet.
People are stupid. They are going to burn it all even if they shouldn't have received it and won't be able to pay it back. They are probably afraid of abuse and mistakes making news around the media about how they are wasting money in time of need. They don't trust the common folks just like they don't trust businesses. Business owners wanted them to do like Japan and Germany where Government pay the company and the companies still gives you your salary. The advantage is that you are still employed with your benefits (and still pay taxes). The disadvantage that is terrifying to them is that you need robust investigations and audits to make sure companies paid employees with said money and not suppliers or invested it instead. With all the scandals we had in the last few years can't blame them for this one.
 

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,439
Toronto
I'm sure a bunch of people won't be able to pay it back when it becomes due.

Plus I can see the opposition not liking it.
People are stupid. They are going to burn it all even if they shouldn't have received it and won't be able to pay it back. They are probably afraid of abuse and mistakes making news around the media about how they are wasting money in time of need. They don't trust the common folks just like they don't trust businesses. Business owners wanted them to do like Japan and Germany where Government pay the company and the companies still gives you your salary. The advantage is that you are still employed with your benefits (and still pay taxes). The disadvantage that is terrifying to them is that you need robust investigations and audits to make sure companies paid employees with said money and not suppliers or invested it instead. With all the scandals we had in the last few years can't blame them for this one.
It wouldn't have to be a flat "You must pay back after $X". It could just be progressive whereby the amount clawed back increases as income goes up. Itd really only be an issue for the people still working. And even then that could be mitigated with putting in place a simple application form to turn on the funding spigot

Granted, I've always been more of a fan of a Negative Income Tax, or a Basic Income Topup with the income threshold calculated Monthly instead of Yearly. Compared to the shotgun it out to everybody method of UBI. It's just more practical and would solve a lot of the issues people have brought up.
 

Mackaveli

Member
Oct 25, 2017
873
Yeah the government isn't really making things clear.

If true this is stupid. People have been applying for EI because they have been laid off due to Covid19. Isn't that CERB to help people who have been affected by Covid19. They should have told people not to file or try and claim EI this past month due to Covid19 because EI won't even come close for a lot of people who are getting $2k a month from CERB.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,576
If true this is stupid. People have been applying for EI because they have been laid off due to Covid19. Isn't that CERB to help people who have been affected by Covid19. They should have told people not to file or try and claim EI this past month due to Covid19 because EI won't even come close for a lot of people who are getting $2k a month from CERB.
The implication is that you won't automatically get 2k from CERB. Or otherwise, they really screwed up when they didn't realize the demand to the existing EI system.
 

Mackaveli

Member
Oct 25, 2017
873
The implication is that you won't automatically get 2k from CERB. Or otherwise, they really screwed up when they didn't realize the demand to the existing EI system.
I thought it was $2k flat? How will they calculate if someone gets $500 or $1000? I wish they made it more clear? I still don't know why they just don't do an OAS clawback limit for an individual or some arbitrary number for individuals and then do a clawback based on family income like they do for the UCCB. And I don't know why they make people apply for it. Everything should have just been automatic and Direct Deposit to everyone on April 1st based on if they had automatic DD set up for tax returns, UCCB payments, GST, etc., and then for the ones that aren't Direct deposit send cheques etc.,
 

Terra Firma

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,793
The implication is that you won't automatically get 2k from CERB. Or otherwise, they really screwed up when they didn't realize the demand to the existing EI system.
If it isn't a flat $2,000, that means they'll have a sliding scale based on...what? If you earned a certain amount in the past 12 months or in 2019, you get less than others who made more than you but this would make it worse for lower income earners or people without savings and it would be bad on the flip side for those who had a decent income but are now unemployed so their upkeep costs would be higher (rent, utilities, etc.) so a flat amount makes the most sense.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,576
If it is flat, then the people who just received EI really did get screwed unless they got at least the same amount.
I guess the difference is that you get some money sooner rather than 4 weeks from now, but still.

But even then, they'll have access to your file anyway since they need to check if you've made at least 5000 over the last twelve months so I have no clue how this works.

And yes, it should just be a flat deposit to everyone but we need to make things endlessly complicated.
 

Vamphuntr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,071
They pretty much explained that every EI demand starting March 15 retroactively would be converted to the CERB request. Everyone asking gets 2000$/month for 4 months or until you work again.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,252

The Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) confirmed that the Independent Advisory Board on Eligibility for Journalism Tax Measures is now in place. The role of the board is to make recommendations to the CRA on whether a journalism organization meets certain criteria to receive the Qualified Canadian Journalism Organization (QCJO) designation. The QCJO designation is one of the prerequisites organizations must meet to take advantage of the new tax measures. The tax measures were introduced in Budget 2019.
Fake news no longer qualifies.
 

Dalthien

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16
Where though? The wording they use is a major grey area that can mean those on or waiting for EI do not qualify for CERB.
I haven't found any official clarification on the government pages yet, but the CUPE site clearly says EI claims will automatically be rolled over into the CERB program. (Link)

"What if I’ve already been laid off and applied for EI?


If you’ve already applied for EI you do not need to reapply for the CERB. Your claim will be automatically moved over to the CERB, and benefits paid from this program first. If needed, you can use your hours to apply for EI benefits after October 3, 2020
."