Canada PoliERA |OT 2| I Got Ninety Nine MPs, But An Albertan Ain't One

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,839
Even the seriousness of a pandemic orients itself around party lines. Most Liberal supporters are taking this seriously? WTF?
Probably some significant regional impacts in this poll. Look at the Bloc supporters which are significantly unconcerned. Why? I've heard that Legault has been performing very well during this crisis.
 

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,439
Toronto
Yep, it's pretty fucking bad. I don't even know how they can process these, even if they're not doing any checks and just rubber stamping them all.
Its times like these which really shows off the simplicity and effectiveness of UBI vs the mess we got into ourself with Welfare and EI where there are so many rules and restrictions that when the money is really needed enmasse, there is absolutely zero way to get it processed and out to the populace in a reasonable time without introducing new programs, waving your investigations and massively increase hirings just to handle the new backlog.

Watch as BC's $1000 for all gets sent out before a meaningful percentage of people even get their EI cheques.
 

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,439
Toronto
I still believe UBI is coming for contingency usage. It will just be under some other name.
And honestly, thats perfectly fine. There should be laws on the book that on a moments notice, during emergencies can just be ordered to apply. No legislation just a straight up. "Under The Emergency Act of Canada, we authorize X Department to begin remitting Y Payments to Canadian Residents".

Thats what the Emergency Payments program that is going into place should be.
 

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,439
Toronto
We'd be lucky if they implement some sort of pilot.

If they ever implement UBI, it would be for citizens only.
Technically, you could consider these Emergency Payments to be a UBI Pilot of sorts. After this whole crisis is over, there is going to be a whole lot of new studies spawned off from Economists looking over these payments in various jurisdictions across the world
 

Raydonn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
231
I think the trend will just increase, thanks to Trump.
Don't forget that people still link the CPC to Republicans and Liberals to Democrats in Canada.

People will be thankful that Trudeau imposed the law when he did, after they see what happened in the US in a couple of weeks/months. (I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that he isn't Trump.)
 

Vamphuntr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,071
If the finance minister needs full taxation power without parliament approval until December 2021 they will need some pretty big explanation. One that means they don't expect this to be over until that date. Two they will have to describe what they are expected to do (I think it's safe to say what it means).

Also it might be unconstitutional:
 

.Detective.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,875
Morrigan

Canada PoliERA |OT 2| Mandatory Self Isolation In COVID Thread

Canada PoliERA |OT 2| All Non-Essential Posting Is Prohibited

Canada PoliERA |OT 2| #PlankThePoliCurve
 

Morrigan

Arrogant Smirk
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
14,795
Morrigan

Canada PoliERA |OT 2| Mandatory Self Isolation In COVID Thread

Canada PoliERA |OT 2| All Non-Essential Posting Is Prohibited

Canada PoliERA |OT 2| #PlankThePoliCurve
lol
Well, you'd have to tag Caz not me, but we're pretty far from reaching OT2 anyway.

I think "All Non-Essential Posting Is Prohibited" is a good subtitle for the actual Coronavirus thread though :D
 

.Detective.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,875
lol
Well, you'd have to tag Caz not me, but we're pretty far from reaching OT2 anyway.

I think "All Non-Essential Posting Is Prohibited" is a good subtitle for the actual Coronavirus thread though :D
Haha, just strategically planning for the months ahead.

But yeah, you make a good point. Maybe we can edit the 2nd one above into the new thread?

Canada PoliERA |OT 2| Gutter_Trash Now Observing Self-Quarantine

lol, sorry.
 
May 30, 2018
978

But polls


It'll be interesting once the government grabs more power how the numbers swing.
He has been incredibly composed during this time and has constantly been reassuring Canadians.

Just imagine Scheer leading us through the Iran Airplane crash, VIA rail stoppages, and COVID19

would probably call for retaliation with Iran, Martial Law on the protests, and probably break under the pressure of COVID19 and "open" up the economy a la Trump

In hindsight we dodged a Nuke back in October
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,631
He has been incredibly composed during this time and has constantly been reassuring Canadians.

Just imagine Scheer leading us through the Iran Airplane crash, VIA rail stoppages, and COVID19

would probably call for retaliation with Iran, Martial Law on the protests, and probably break under the pressure of COVID19 and "open" up the economy a la Trump

In hindsight we dodged a Nuke back in October
Scheer is right, though. Taxation is a parliamentary power that should not be ceded to the executive in this fashion. The opposition parties have already agreed to basically fund whatever the government wants.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,025
Scheer is right, though. Taxation is a parliamentary power that should not be ceded to the executive in this fashion. The opposition parties have already agreed to basically fund whatever the government wants.
The Cons have repeatedly demonstrated that they operate party-over-country. There is no reason take them at their word about anything.
 

UberTag

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
8,264
Kitchener, ON
Yeah, it's not hindsight if it's something we've warned EVERYONE about if the CPC was elected. I'm just glad it didn't turn out worse, but I'm still angry at Alberta and Saskatchewan for being very... right-winged with their votes.
Almost wish we could just let them secede to the States.
They could vote for their dream right-wing autocratic fascist leader... and we could unshackle ourselves from an oil-driven dollar.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,252
Scheer is right, though. Taxation is a parliamentary power that should not be ceded to the executive in this fashion. The opposition parties have already agreed to basically fund whatever the government wants.
Heh from the party that stuffed so much crap in their omnibus bills, forged documents and sold us to China with only 1 hour of debate NOW they care about parliamentary power.

I seem to recall them spending a bunch of money without parliamentary oversight as well.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,631
Heh from the party that stuffed so much crap in their omnibus bills, forged documents and sold us to China with only 1 hour of debate NOW they care about parliamentary power.

I seem to recall them spending a bunch of money without parliamentary oversight as well.
That is Whataboutism, and you are better than that. It doesn't matter what the CPC has done, it doesn't excuse a massive overreach of executive power since it will be re-used in the future by successive governments. Parliament is already subservient to cabinet and the PMO.

I've seen a few people say that the CPC would do the same thing, but no one is defending the move or addressing my issue with it.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,839
Sounds like the government is already backing away from the insane idea.


Fucked that the government would put out this trial balloon and think they could leverage the crisis into actually pulling this off.
 
Fucked that the government would put out this trial balloon and think they could leverage the crisis into actually pulling this off.
Wouldn't surprise me if it originated as somebody's idea of a fix for the risk of convening parliament regularly to approve things and then gathered steam from there.

I also agree that it's definitely not constitutional. Sections 18 and 53 of the 1867 Constitution Act, in particular.
 

killerrin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,439
Toronto
Wouldn't surprise me if it originated as somebody's idea of a fix for the risk of convening parliament regularly to approve things and then gathered steam from there.

I also agree that it's definitely not constitutional. Sections 18 and 53 of the 1867 Constitution Act, in particular.
One thing I read is that these powers are basically whats already available under the emergency act anyways. Granted that one has a limit of 6-9 months and has to be reactivated by parliament; with those powers automatically disbanding once the crisis is over.

So if I had to guess, it was probably just intended to bring those powers to the forefront so they can be used without needing to go the full mile of activating the entire act; with an increased timespan to cover the estimated time to vaccine.

Not that it really would have mattered considering that the draft seemed to have a timeline built right into it for when it would expire. By the time this is over and things started going back to normal, the bill would have been expiring anyhow.
 
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Heshinsi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,208
I think the trend will just increase, thanks to Trump.
Don't forget that people still link the CPC to Republicans and Liberals to Democrats in Canada.

People will be thankful that Trudeau imposed the law when he did, after they see what happened in the US in a couple of weeks/months. (I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that he isn't Trump.)
Well I mean when you've got the likes of Doug Ford stating how much he loves Republicans and how he is one too, whose fault is it that the Cons have made themselves to be the Canadian GOP?
 

Gabbo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,217
This is like... everything. lol

Even construction is still a go.
I looked over this list when I got up... I don't see how this will change anything, this is basically every possible business. Any other big game launches in the near future for EB to host?
I know Ford doesn't want to look like he's lording over business with the heavy hand of government, but god forbid he actually put some weight behind his "close or be be closed" warnings.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,252
I looked over this list when I got up... I don't see how this will change anything, this is basically every possible business. Any other big game launches in the near future for EB to host?
I know Ford doesn't want to look like he's lording over business with the heavy hand of government, but god forbid he actually put some weight behind his "close or be be closed" warnings.
Maybe he's trying to give the appearance he's doing a lot when he really isn't.

Are we really expecting Mr. Big Time Republican who's "Open for Business" to shut everything down?

He can talk the talk but can he walk the walk?


LOL he's up to 64%
 
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Gabbo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,217
Maybe he's trying to give the appearance he's doing a lot when he really isn't.

Are we really expecting Mr. Big Time Republican who's "Open for Business" to shut everything down?

He can talk the talk but can he walk the walk?
conspiracy theory - he's trying to paint himself as the saviour of the economy and will let Trudeau take the hit for the economy sinking
realistically - he's too stupid to make a decision on this
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,252
conspiracy theory - he's trying to paint himself as the saviour of the economy and will let Trudeau take the hit for the economy sinking
realistically - he's too stupid to make a decision on this
He's smart enough to try and seize the opportunity to fix his ratings by appearing competent.

The conservatives seem to have taken a break from their attacks on Trudeau so that will probably take a backseat for a while.
 

Expy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,993
So, an MP is defying his party's advice and will head to the House of Commons to deny all bills unless his demands are met. What I heard on CBC.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,576
Yep, Scott Reid posted this message on his site explaining his reasons:

In such an environment, I found myself, over the past few days, growing increasingly alarmed—even before the first draft of Bill C-13 revealed that the Government was planning on enacting what the Constitutional Authorities refer to as a “Henry VIII Bill” (i.e. an act to allow the Executive to function without the approval of Parliament). I decided that I would have to come to Commons, take my seat, and deny unanimous consent, if the bill—any bill, including one that turns out on inspection to be innocuous—were introduced in such a way as to deprive MPs like myself the ability to read the bill prior to giving our consent.
---

I will say, his point about flying is true. But I guess also the bigger point is that they need to just allow for tele-presence in the House already.

Haha he does get dramatic at the end, but as you do I suppose:
None of the incipient new conventions outlined above can be allowed to stand, or Responsible Government in Canada is over. Full Stop.
 

Expy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,993
Well, any delay to this bill, and the consequences that come with it due to his denials, will be solely on him.

Hope he's ready for the onslaught.