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Bob Iger: "Following 'The Rise of Skywalker,' Star Wars will go on hiatus"

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,990
Okay, so, you clearly are one of those people who have some sort of weird bias against TCW I guess?

The Clone Wars movie wasn't good, we all know that -- it also wasn't even supposed to be a movie. They stitched the first four episodes (basically the pilot) together into a movie and threw it into theatres, it was a bad idea. That says absolutely nothing about the quality and variety of the 6 season, 120+ episode series.

And your ratings comment is just absolutely untrue nonsense. Ratings being irrelevant to the series' quality, and my statement, aside -- Past the premiere (which was the highest rated new show premiere for any Cartoon Network show), the series continued to be an extremely strong performer for the network until its cancellation. And it's important to note, Cartoon Network never cancelled it and it was planned to go for 8 seasons.

Disney axed it when they bought Lucasfilm because the cost per episode was too great, it was on a competing company's network, and they wanted a clean slate/to move away from the "Prequel" era of Star Wars/reboot it. They clearly realize that was shortsighted in hindsight, but what are you gonna do.

Regardless of your own opinion on TCW, it expanded the Star Wars universe in a positive way, was generally well received by both critics and fans, and created an entire new generation of fans -- Ahsoka especially is one of the most popular characters in the series now. There are people who grew up with TCW as "their Star Wars". Disney is starting to realize this and is going to cater this subset of the fanbase more as time goes on.

"Non-fans" and "very casual fans" just want good movies. Doesn't matter whether they're like the OT, or like the prequels, or like TCW. Although I would think even they tire from the exact same limited scope (that is basically extremely similar to whatever the OT did) that most of the Disney Star Wars products so far have been comprised of.
I like the show just fine, I'm just questioning the whole "every Star Wars movie would make tons of money if they just had diverse environments/characters like Clone Wars!".

I don't think so, I think you would quickly hit a saturation point no matter what. Just because something appeals to hardcore Star Wars fans doesn't mean it has mass appeal to Joe Average shelling out $12 a movie ticket or has appeal to say the Chinese market.

Ashoka is not one of the most popular Star Wars characters either, not by a long shot. Most average people don't know who the hell that is.

It's not like Solo was a terrible movie either, it was OK to "good". Star Wars is a event movie franchise, you can't just change it 35 years in and now say it's a yearly Marvel like series. That was always gonna end as a big problem for Disney and I would've said that 8 years ago, 5 years ago, whatever.
 
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PshycoNinja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,629
Los Angeles
CinemaScores discussion is always funny to me. I mean...by that metric a most people loved The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones. They did get A- after all on CinemaScore.
 

Drewton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,006
CinemaScores discussion is always funny to me. I mean...by that metric a most people loved The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones. They did get A- after all on CinemaScore.
Yeah, CinemaScore has never meant much to me.

Lets also put that into context ... the Clone Wars movie bombed hard and the Clone Wars TV series never really a ratings juggernaut past the premiere, Disney opted to axe it fairly quickly.

SW fans need to be able to view things from the POV of non-fans or very casual fans.
Yes, it’s really overrated here.
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,249
USA
CinemaScores discussion is always funny to me. I mean...by that metric a most people loved The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones. They did get A- after all on CinemaScore.
People.. Did enjoy them. The general audience went to see them and they performed very well at the box office.

General audience is different from folks who discuss SW online.

People keep conflating the two which is why we get misleading and sometimes flat out untrue narratives.

Every unit of measurement we have shows that the general audience largely enjoyed them.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,990
People.. Did enjoy them. The general audience went to see them and they performed very well at the box office.

General audience is different from folks who discuss SW online.

People keep conflating the two which is why we get misleading and sometimes flat out untrue narratives.

Every unit of measurement we have shows that general audience largely enjoyed them.
Inflation adjusted even, the Disney trilogy is going to destroy the prequel trilogy head to head.

Force Awakens - $2.06 billion
Phantom Menace - $1.67 billion (inflation adj + 3D re-release included)

The Last Jedi - $1.3 billion
Attack of the Clones - $900 million (inflation adjusted)

The Rise of Skywalker - ?
Revenge of the Sith - $1.1 billion (inflation adjusted)

The prequel trilogy is by objective metrics the most poorly received of the three trilogies, and it's not really even a small gap either.
 

Kyoufu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,934
What's Iger's definition of "hiatus"? Because they're not going to keep it away for too long.
 
Oct 27, 2017
15,077
Lets also put that into context ... the Clone Wars movie bombed hard and the Clone Wars TV series never really a ratings juggernaut past the premiere, Disney opted to axe it fairly quickly.

SW fans need to be able to view things from the POV of non-fans or very casual fans.
Well, it's definitely popular now. It's the number 2 most watched show on Disney+
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,249
USA
Inflation adjusted even, the Disney trilogy is going to destroy the prequel trilogy head to head.

Force Awakens - $2.06 billion
Phantom Menace - $1.67 billion (inflation adj + 3D re-release included)

The Last Jedi - $1.3 billion
Attack of the Clones - $900 million (inflation adjusted)

The Rise of Skywalker - ?
Revenge of the Sith - $1.1 billion (inflation adjusted)

The prequel trilogy is by objective metrics the most poorly received of the three trilogies, and it's not really even a small gap either.
You can't just directly compare the trilogies in this way (adjusting for inflation), the movie industry wasn't the same in 99 as it is now. Also those movies had almost half the budget.

The bottom line is that the prequels were a shining success, financially. There's no way to spin it.
 

SneakersSO

Member
Oct 24, 2017
419
North America
I'm of the opinion that they didn't over-saturate the market with Star Wars, they just squandered my interest with mediocre re-treads.
After TLJ, I decided to quietly just not be a SW fan anymore. I have had no interest in watching a new SW movie or show since.

No one I know came out of TLJ and has brought up any interest in SW since then. Purely anecdotal, ofc.

Honestly, it saddens me that they are gonna put the film efforts on hiatus for awhile. I may loathe TLJ, but for the people who enjoy the new Star Wars stuff, I wouldn't wanna deny them something they enjoy. I'm sure this icing won't last too long though.
 

FaultyFork

Member
Oct 28, 2017
254
So weird to make a trilogy where the second movie doesn't set up anything interesting at all for the final movie. The hype just died after that movie and it doesn't help that the other movies are just prequels that doesn't help building the new universe in any way.
 

Beef Supreme

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,467
Good. Star Wars films have always been events spaced apart perfectly to create hype. That's what made them special. Treating them like the MCU was always wrong. Now that they have Disney +, they can tell their "stories" that way. Leave the theater for the epics.

So weird to make a trilogy where the second movie doesn't set up anything interesting at all for the final movie. The hype just died after that movie and it doesn't help that the other movies are just prequels that doesn't help building the new universe in any way.
It's weird reading posts like this when, imo, it did the exact opposite. By trying to wipe away what had been done in previous films, it created a blank canvas for the next director to go ape shit and use their imagination without the restraints of the Skywalkers. That was until they announced JJ Abrams. I knew he would go and make a film full of fan service if it meant making a Skywalker zombie film. I can't wait for the next trilogy because hopefully the Sywalkers are not in it. Give me originality any day.
 
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UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,990
You can't just directly compare the trilogies in this way (adjusting for inflation), the movie industry wasn't the same in 99 as it is now. Also those movies had almost half the budget.

The bottom line is that the prequels were a shining success, financially. There's no way to spin it.
The prequels could've been Lucas taking a dump on a toilet for 2 hours and they would've made a good deal of profit, I'm just saying they are going to be by objective metrics the lowest box office Star Wars trilogy and the worst critically received as well.
 

PshycoNinja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,629
Los Angeles
Thanks for the link to CinemaScore. I'm having a blast looking at the scores for notably bad movies like Jack and Jill and That's My Boy getting Bs. XD
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,990
Good. Star Wars films have always been events spaced apart perfectly to create hype. That's what made them special. Treating them like the MCU was always wrong. Mow that they have Disney +, they can tell their "stories" that way. Leave the theater for the epics.
I don't understand why so many people can't wrap their head around this.

You can't take an "event" franchise that's even know for *decades* in between movies for all the top grossing ones and then suddenly 35 years into that established pattern say you're becoming a yearly film franchise now.

People who thought that would work with no problems were naive.

Star Wars movies are not easily digestable either ... it's not like popping down a slice of pizza. It's more like a steak dinner.

The movies are not "light", they are usually fairly serious and require you to have some understanding of the lore/meta-universe in a way that say Marvel does not. There's not much joking in Star Wars movies, there's no "New York City" in Star Wars movies to contemporize the films when they need to be brought down to earth.

Star Wars fanatics can't understand that stuff like that is important to average/casual movie goers.
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,249
USA
The prequels could've been Lucas taking a dump on a toilet for 2 hours and they would've made a good deal of profit, I'm just saying they are going to be by objective metrics the lowest box office Star Wars trilogy and the worst critically received as well.
That's not what my point was, my point was that it's pretty clear that general audience enjoyed the prequels; it's reflected in the box office returns and the CinemaScores.

How else can we interpret 2.5B off of a 350M budget and A- scores?

I never argued anything about it's critical reception or whether its quality is on par with the other trilogies.
 
Dec 21, 2017
311
It's weird reading posts like this when, imo, it did the exact opposite. By trying to wipe away what had been done in previous films, it created a blank canvas for the next director to go ape shit and use their imagination without the restraints of the Skywalkers. That was until they announced JJ Abrams. I knew he would go and make a film full of fan service if it meant making a Skywalker zombie film. I can't wait for the next trilogy because hopefully the Sywalkers are not in it. Give me originality any day.
Personally, i highly disagree. It's a Trilogy, which means by nature, it's a three act show. Leaving director number three nothing to go off of aside from Kylo vs Rey leaves way too much time open for a presumed 2 hour film to cover. TLJ wrapped most of the plotlines up by nuking them off the face of the earth and left me completely apathetic to any sequel. There's nothing left to cover aside from JJ having to clean up the massive trainwreck TLJ did to the narrative.
 

PshycoNinja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,629
Los Angeles
B is considered terrible by CinemaScore standards
That's strange because they have an A+ to F scale:
CinemaScore said:
A movie’s overall CinemaScore can range from A+ to F.
This is like...worse than game industry standards then. At least if a game averages 75 it's still considered a "good" game. Which would be a C on the CinemaScore scale.

But Bs are considered terrible? Shesh...dont say that to the rare movie that gets C and Ds. They must be mega awful. I mean worse than the considered worse movies of the decade but... *shrug*
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,990
That's not what my point was, my point was that it's pretty clear that general audience enjoyed the prequels; it's reflected in the box office returns and the CinemaScores.

How else can we interpret 2.5B off of a 350M budget and A- scores?

I never argued anything about it's critical reception or whether its quality is on par with the other trilogies.
Objectively the box office for the prequels is lower than the other two trilogies too. It's not just critical opinion.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,990
Personally, i highly disagree. It's a Trilogy, which means by nature, it's a three act show. Leaving director number three nothing to go off of aside from Kylo vs Rey leaves way too much time open for a presumed 2 hour film to cover. TLJ wrapped most of the plotlines up by nuking them off the face of the earth and left me completely apathetic to any sequel. There's nothing left to cover aside from JJ having to clean up the massive trainwreck TLJ did to the narrative.
This is fair. Even though I generally think the sequel trilogy is pretty good as standalone films, as a coherent trilogy, it's pretty clear this was not thought out in advance and Rian Johnson, while a talented filmmaker who did make a competent film really did not care much for a cohesive trilogy over doing what he wanted.

JJ Abrams gave notes for where VIII and IX were supposed to go, if you're hiring JJ as the director of VII, then you've kinda made your bed. You can't now just change half way through and go into a radically different direction.

That said there are plenty of poor Terminator, Ghostbusters, Aliens, Transformers, Independence Day, etc. etc. fans who would give their left leg to have a new franchise instalment in their series' anywhere near the quality as TFA or TLJ. I mean shit, TFA is a much better movie than Star Trek 2009, and Star Trek fans were over the freaking moon for that film.
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,249
USA
Objectively the box office for the prequels is lower than the other two trilogies too. It's not just critical opinion.
You keep using inflation as a 1:1 comparison of a trilogy that began in 1999. This is unrealistic and misleading.

That being said, whether or not it being on par with either trilogy is irrelevant to my point.. That audiences generally enjoyed the prequels, as evidenced by the metrics we have available to us.

There's no way to spin 2.5B off of 350M as "audiences didn't really like these movies" lol
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,990
You keep using inflation as a 1:1 comparison of a trilogy that began in 1999. This is unrealistic and misleading.

That being said, whether or not it being on par with either trilogy is irrelevant to my point.. That audiences generally enjoyed the prequels, as evidenced by the metrics we have available to us.
It's not really that misleading at all, you have to use some form of inflation to compare films from disparate time points.

If you use no inflation, you do realize the results are actually worse for the prequels right?
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,249
USA
It's not really that misleading at all, you have to use some form of inflation to compare films from disparate time points.

If you use no inflation, you do realize the results are actually worse for the prequels right?
.. Yes, I'm saying it's misleading to just focus on inflation over the span of decades.

Regardless, are you going to argue that audiences generally didn't like them? They just.. Continued to see them and throw obscene amounts of money at them?

And their CinemaScores are irrelevant because.. Reasons
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,990
.. Yes, I'm saying it's misleading to just focus on inflation over the span of decades.

Regardless, are you going to argue that audiences generally didn't like them? They just.. Continued to see them and throw obscene amounts of money at them?

And their CinemaScores are irrelevant because.. Reasons
Depends on what your definition of "like" is. They were going to make money just because of how huge the Star Wars IP was coming off the 80s/90s.

It's like the next Call of Duty could be an average game, but it's still going to sell millions of copies no matter what.
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,249
USA
Depends on what your definition of "like" is. They were going to make money just because of how huge the Star Wars IP was coming off the 80s/90s.

It's like the next Call of Duty could be an average game, but it's still going to sell millions of copies no matter what.
You know, it's quite possible that a lot of people also like CoD. It's almost like people spend money on things they enjoy. Like=enjoy

What's your argument here? People don't like SW or CoD, but fork over their hard earned money on them? Lol

I don't know why you keep bringing up quality when it never had anything to do with my argument.

Venom is sitting at 29% RT yet made over 850M WW. Critic reception doesn't always reflect audience reception.

Also, comparatively, TFA's budget to domestic and WW totals matches TPM.
 

JB1981

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,008
JJ Abrams gave notes for where VIII and IX were supposed to go, if you're hiring JJ as the director of VII, then you've kinda made your bed. You can't now just change half way through and go into a radically different direction.
Fake news.

Despite what Daisy Ridley said and how media outlets with an agenda ran with her comments, there was no outline for eps 7 and 8.

Abrams and Kasdan were under intense pressure to finish a script for 7. And Rian Johnson was writing his script for 8 as TFA was shooting. He was literally writing as dailies were coming in. There was no time for Kasdan and Abrams to write sequel outlines.

And Abrams was closely involved with Johnson in the hand off:



“The script for VIII is written. I’m sure rewrites are going to be endless, like they always are. But what Larry and I did was set up certain key relationships, certain key questions, conflicts. And we knew where certain things were going. We had meetings with Rian and Ram Bergman, the producer of VIII. They were watching dailies when we were shooting our movie. We wanted them to be part of the process, to make the transition to their film as seamless as possible. I showed Rian an early cut of the movie, because I knew he was doing his rewrite and prepping. And as executive producer of VIII, I need that movie to be really good. Withholding serves no one and certainly not the fans. So we’ve been as transparent as possible.”

“Rian has asked for a couple of things here and there that he needs for his story. He is an incredibly accomplished filmmaker and an incredibly strong writer. So the story he told took what we were doing and went in the direction that he felt was best but that is very much in line with what we were thinking as well. But you’re right—that will be his movie; he’s going to do it in the way he sees fit. He’s neither asking for nor does he need me to oversee the process.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,990
Fake news.

Despite what Daisy Ridley said and how media outlets with an agenda ran with her comments, there was no outline for eps 7 and 8.

Abrams and Kasdan were under intense pressure to finish a script for 7. And Rian Johnson was writing his script for 8 as TFA was shooting. He was literally writing as dailies were coming in. There was no time for Kasdan and Abrams to write sequel outlines.

And Abrams was closely involved with Johnson in the hand off:



“The script for VIII is written. I’m sure rewrites are going to be endless, like they always are. But what Larry and I did was set up certain key relationships, certain key questions, conflicts. And we knew where certain things were going. We had meetings with Rian and Ram Bergman, the producer of VIII. They were watching dailies when we were shooting our movie. We wanted them to be part of the process, to make the transition to their film as seamless as possible. I showed Rian an early cut of the movie, because I knew he was doing his rewrite and prepping. And as executive producer of VIII, I need that movie to be really good. Withholding serves no one and certainly not the fans. So we’ve been as transparent as possible.”

“Rian has asked for a couple of things here and there that he needs for his story. He is an incredibly accomplished filmmaker and an incredibly strong writer. So the story he told took what we were doing and went in the direction that he felt was best but that is very much in line with what we were thinking as well. But you’re right—that will be his movie; he’s going to do it in the way he sees fit. He’s neither asking for nor does he need me to oversee the process.
It's not "fake news" unless you are saying Daisy Ridley was lying about what she said, and as far as I know she's never back tracked on that comment.

There was an outline for VIII and IX provided by Abrams. Rian Johnson chose not to use it, per Ridley. If you can discount that, please post the link.

It's not as if an outline takes 8 years to write. You can write a basic outline in a week or two.
 

Crimsonskies

Member
Nov 1, 2019
66
According to we got this covered test screenings was a disaster before Lucas was called in to fix it.

They seem to be having issues locking down a final cut of the movie and that has me a little worried,

EDIT: There may be SPOILERS in the article.

Mod Edit: Removed Bad Article
 
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UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,990
According to we got this covered test screenings was a disaster before Lucas was called in to fix it.

They seem to be having issues locking down a final cut of the movie and that has me a little worried,

Mod Edit: Removed Bad Article
Maybe he can get around to fixing Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, Revenge of the Sith, Star Wars A New Hope Special Edition, and Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull while he's at it.
 
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FaceHugger

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,421
Iger's statement seems to have caused some of the fake entertainment news sites and YouTube channels (the kind that use the phrase "get woke, go broke" unironically) to generate some elaborate new stories. A few popped up in my Google news feed, which I laughed at before filtering out their sources.

Let me think of some of their claims, as they're jumbled together in my head:

- Disney held screenings of ROS (they do not hold public screenings for Star Wars movies.... they're more secretive than the Game of Thrones production was) and the crowd laughed at the first cut, which made Iger angry so he forced a second cut which audiences liked more, but finally George Lucas was commissioned to redo the movie and completely change the final act. Yes, they're expecting people to believe that Disney ran to George Lucas to direct the final reshoots of the film

- Disney has spent 300 million dollars on reshoots (haha)

- They used George Lucas's idea to write in a new secret Skywalker character

This whole thing is quickly becoming a circus. I just want to see the final film in this saga I've been watching since I was four then never participate in Star Wars debate or speculation on the Internet ever again.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,990
Iger's statement seems to have caused some of the fake entertainment news sites and YouTube channels (the kind that use the phrase "get woke, go broke" unironically) to generate some elaborate new stories. A few popped up in my Google news feed, which I laughed at before filtering out their sources.

Let me think of some of their claims, as they're jumbled together in my head:

- Disney held screenings of ROS (they do not hold public screenings for Star Wars movies.... they're more secretive than the Game of Thrones production was) and the crowd laughed at the first cut, which made Iger angry so he forced a second cut which audiences liked more, but finally George Lucas was commissioned to redo the movie and completely change the final act. Yes, they're expecting people to believe that Disney ran to George Lucas to direct the final reshoots of the film

- Disney has spent 300 million dollars on reshoots (haha)

- They used George Lucas's idea to write in a new secret Skywalker character

This whole thing is quickly becoming a circus. I just want to see the final film in this saga I've been watching since I was four then never participate in Star Wars debate or speculation on the Internet ever again.
It's totally dumb fan fiction because you can tell they used the whole Rey = Mary Sue to highlight the Palpatine being beaten so easily beat and of course the bit with
Mannequin Skywalker back
is what a lot of that dummy audience wants too.
 
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Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,249
USA
According to we got this covered test screenings was a disaster before Lucas was called in to fix it.

They seem to be having issues locking down a final cut of the movie and that has me a little worried,

EDIT: There may be SPOILERS in the article.

Of course, we’ll file this one strictly in the rumor cabinet for now since it comes from a YouTuber with a questionable track record, but according to them,
Totally clears George Lucas, thank you!
 

Crimsonskies

Member
Nov 1, 2019
66
Iger's statement seems to have caused some of the fake entertainment news sites and YouTube channels (the kind that use the phrase "get woke, go broke" unironically) to generate some elaborate new stories. A few popped up in my Google news feed, which I laughed at before filtering out their sources.

Let me think of some of their claims, as they're jumbled together in my head:

- Disney held screenings of ROS (they do not hold public screenings for Star Wars movies.... they're more secretive than the Game of Thrones production was) and the crowd laughed at the first cut, which made Iger angry so he forced a second cut which audiences liked more, but finally George Lucas was commissioned to redo the movie and completely change the final act. Yes, they're expecting people to believe that Disney ran to George Lucas to direct the final reshoots of the film

- Disney has spent 300 million dollars on reshoots (haha)

- They used George Lucas's idea to write in a new secret Skywalker character

This whole thing is quickly becoming a circus. I just want to see the final film in this saga I've been watching since I was four then never participate in Star Wars debate or speculation on the Internet ever again.

I don't think this is true at all either and introducing a new skywalker like that would be the mcguffin rule of storytelling and no way in hell would they do that.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,990
I have this from a pretty reliable source (my cousin's uncles aunt's sister's brother's nurse works for Iger)

- Iger saw a screening of Episode IX and raged at Abrams for 30 minutes yelling "I fucking knew it! Shoulda hired Fiege! You'll never work in this fucking town again! Someone call Ari Gold!"

- He greenlit 5 more Marvel movies on the spot to shame Abrams and proclaimed "I'm done with this fucking space wars laser sword shit"

- George Lucas was brought on board and suggested reworking the film around a CG character named Darth Icky Wicky Sticky and a musical number where Rey encounters singing microscopic midicholorians. This sequence also has her Force training like Rocky for 30 minutes just to make it clear you have to train in the Force.

- Anakin Skywalker shows up at the end and destroys Palpatine with Force Lightning from his penis. The last line of the trilogy will be "I hate sand ... but I love dick lightning", which ties all the trilogies together.


Some details may be off a bit, but I'm pretty confident in my sources.
 

Cheebo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,984
Ann Arbor, MI
According to we got this covered test screenings was a disaster before Lucas was called in to fix it.

They seem to be having issues locking down a final cut of the movie and that has me a little worried,

EDIT: There may be SPOILERS in the article.

Do not link to that website, their “source” is a alt right Youtuber.

How hard is it to check sources before posting things? God damn.